Supreme Commander Retail Thread

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2007-03-14 11:53pm

Is it just me, or do T3 gunships pretty much own any sort of land-based attack? The biggest portable AA unit that's non-experimental is a t2 AA gun, which really fail against the sheer firepower of these. T1 interceptors cannot take them in an air-air fight, and the T3 superiority fighters don't do enough damage fast enough to stop them from wiping out an army.

Even on the Naval Front, cruisers can engage them well, but will be sunk instantly once fire starts. Experimental Battleships will die even if escorted by 6-8 cruisers against 30 Gunships.

Monkeylords can handle them, but would take notable damage. How do you deal with T3 gunships in the field, as I know SAM sites eat them alive.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2007-03-15 12:00am

I've noticed that, too. They can pretty much carve up anything outside the range of SAM's for breakfast, especially at half the build time of strategic bombers.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-03-15 12:02am

T3 Gunships are really expensive, I suspect that for fewer resources you could field an effective defense.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-03-15 12:10am

InnocentBystander wrote:T3 Gunships are really expensive, I suspect that for fewer resources you could field an effective defense.

Eh. This was a real sticking point during the Betatesting phase. It was never settled to satisfaction. I was in the "Still Broken" camp and many others agreed. They may be expensive, high-tier units, but with all the stuff you can add to them, and escorted by scouts and T1 fighercraft to confuse AA, there's very few ways for someone to simply 'counter' the T3 gunships. It takes a concerted effort to match them, and it's a fairly dedicated strategy.

The gunship rush is not without faults either, but T3 gunships can be deployed in small numbers as support as well, and it takes a lot more than a greatly disproportionate amount of hardware to keep them out of trouble.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2007-03-15 12:45am

InnocentBystander wrote:T3 Gunships are really expensive, I suspect that for fewer resources you could field an effective defense.

Not really. A small squadron of 6-8 T3 Gunships is highly mobile and re-deployable to tackle any threat you face. They certainly multiply the value of fixed defenses vs some types of targets (like artillery).

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-03-15 12:55am

The answer to T3 gunships attacking your base is a horde, 50+ of t1 interceptors, shields, and T2 flak AA supported by some T3 SAMs. It takes a lot to beat down a dedicated T3 Gunship swarm, and if your commander goes up inside your base (which is what I aim for) you're pretty much screwed.

30 or so gunships will weather almost any defenses and assasinate a commander before being killed. 30 gunships with scout chaff and interceptor support are nigh-invincible.

Ultimately, the answer to T3 gunship swarm is to not let your opponent get them. Have good radar coverage, scout their base often, and pick off any gunships you see on their own. They *are* expensive to tool up to, but once production gets going, you'd better have an answer ready or else you're screwed.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2007-03-15 01:00am

In my experience, a base with good SAM and heavy shield coverage will chew up T3 gunships without too much trouble, but a mobile army caught outside the base's perimeter is in trouble.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2007-03-15 01:04am

Elaro wrote:Well, I don't know about CoH tutorials, but I thought they were sufficient to learn how to play at a basic level. You are right to say they didn't cover a lot, but I don't think they failed to teach the essentials. Tutorials aren't there to teach us strategy, although it is better if they do.

The difference is the following: I install CoH, play the tutorial, and at the end of it know pretty much everything important there is. The only thing that is added after the tutorial are a few new units and abilities/upgrades of those units (which are mostly covered in the campaign).
I started the tutorial in SupCom, was extremely surprised to see simply a map with three commanders under my control, and the possibilitity to view a few videos.
I checked the videos out, and they did NOT cover ESSENTIAL stuff like attack-move, formations and the like.

Considering the unit count is relatively large ( I always play at 750-1000), I don't think it makes much difference.

It mostly annoyed me, because I hadn't found out how to self-destruct units. I also hadn't known that you can see most shortcuts using the F-12 key. These are things not covered in the tutorial or the campaign.

Well, I certainly agree that there's a learning curve, but what do you mean by "made for fans only"? I haven't played TA at all and I still find the game very interesting.

I mean that this is a game only made for people who are willing to put WORK into the game (by constantly checking out the manual/F-12-key as to what shortcuts are available, and how to use those).

Really? Well, who is it for, then?

This is a game for people who want to get into competitive gaming over the Internet or a LAN.

Another thing I noticed in another game: Using multiple Nuke launch sites: If you give several targets using the shift-key to several nuke launchers, each launcher moves through the queue on their own. This means that every launcher shoots one nuke at the first waypoint, then launches the second nuke at the next one and so one. In other words, if you have five (fully loaded) nuke launchers and give them ten targets, they will launch five nukes at the first one, five at the second, five at the third, five at the fourth, five at the sixth, and the seventh up to tenth target will remain unmolested (until new nukes are built). Annoying as hell. I guess they did it this way in order to have it be easier to overwhelm anti-nuke defences, but still annoying.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-03-15 01:23am

I've actually never built T3 gunships, since T2 gunships suck so many balls. An equal or similar number of T2 aa or interceptors can handle regular gunships, but it sounds like the T3 can tank the damage long enough to deal serious damage.

The idea of a T2 gunship sinking a battleship is absurd (80k hp ftw) so I guess I should build a T3 gunship to see what's going on.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-03-15 07:48am

Stark wrote:I've actually never built T3 gunships, since T2 gunships suck so many balls. An equal or similar number of T2 aa or interceptors can handle regular gunships, but it sounds like the T3 can tank the damage long enough to deal serious damage.

The idea of a T2 gunship sinking a battleship is absurd (80k hp ftw) so I guess I should build a T3 gunship to see what's going on.

Yep, of course you pay for it. I perfer Strategic bombers, as I recall they're only slightly more expensive but more punch.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-03-15 03:44pm

Strat bombers are more vulnerable to interceptors through. The T3 Gunship is a flying tank. Plus, the gunship is more effective at attacking large groups of ground units, because it doesn't need to fly back and forth over the top of them, dropping bombs.

Strat bombers are good for taking out single heavily defended targets, but if SAMs are active, kiss them goodbye.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-03-15 04:04pm

I've never really tried it, but I suspect the teleportation backpack upgrade might be the answer to this sort of trick. Its one thing to run past defenses while under attack, take down a T3 shield while under fire from and then kill the commander; its another thing to then have to find the commander AGAIN (after he teleports), and get through a T3 shield again.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-03-15 05:18pm

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Unfortunately, the teleportation backpack is the most energy-expensive thing in the game. It costs tons to build, and it costs even more while charging up. Something like 50K energy, for the whole 5 MINUTES it takes to charge up.

The only real use for teleportation is for the aeon subcommanders. They can ninja-teleport into your opponent's resource matrix and kill all of it.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-03-15 05:21pm

Wait... it takes 50k/sec for 5 minutes; or it drains 50k over 5 minutes (in which case... can you assist it?). 50k energy isn't huge, at that point in the game (esp. if you play on 2x resources, which you should

). Your Cybran rapid fire mobile artillary super unit eats up 30k a shot, and it shoots pretty darn fast. Can you charge it up, and then use it in a pinch? Because thats really all you need.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-03-21 04:28pm

Okay, I've finally been able to borrow a copy and plunk it on my machine. I can't go online since they would strangle me for using their CD key, and for some reason he didn't think that borrowing his brand new game and then going online was going to be 'totally okay' with him. I was in Beta, so I wanted to see how it turned out.

Oh God it bores me to tears.

What am I doing wrong? There has to be some kind of ultra-elite hardcore madman way of playing this game that makes it a bit more like the opening movie than the version of Ant Commander I seem to have installed by mistake. I think the balance changes they made were definately smart though, and I can't say I really complain much about the T3 UEF gunships anymore.

I popped onto GameReplays to grab a build order, and have yet to try it out. I know that the real fun of this game HAS to be in multiplayer, but still, someone's gotta share some of their findings into how to squeeze the most production out of my side. If I could simply build MORE I could end the games faster, and that would be pleasent. I won't bother going on and on about how much I hate the game, because I'm sure that if I could finish a real battle within 30 minutes that I would hate it less. I can only assume that these longer, boring games are a result of a turtling AI and an extremely weak playstyle of my own. Even if the units are boring as all fuck, I'm sure there's a way to make the battles more tense, and those early combats more decisive.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2007-03-21 08:24pm

I saw a vid of Gamespot's SupCom tourney, and the palyer who won did it in like 15 minutes in a 3 person free-for-all. One of the things he did was have only like three factories but the maximum numbers of engineers supporting each factory.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-03-21 08:43pm

Play the game with someone via LAN for christ sakes. Playing SupCom singleplayer is like playing Counter-Strike singleplayer. I haven't touched SupCom skirmish once because I already know how bad it will be.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-03-21 09:04pm

teleport takes a lot of energy per tick, so if it was 50k per tick for 5 minutes, that would be...

50k * 5 * 60 * 10
=150million energy over 5 minutes

Arbitrary numbers, but yeah, really high. No way to charge it up and save it, either. And I don't think assisting works.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-03-21 10:01pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:Play the game with someone via LAN for christ sakes. Playing SupCom singleplayer is like playing Counter-Strike singleplayer. I haven't touched SupCom skirmish once because I already know how bad it will be.

I'm not in a dorm, ergo, I've got no lan buddies. I've got a house and am no longer in college. :p Or do you mean the LAN/IP option? I don't have anyone else to play that with either. Right now I'm trying to ascertain if the game is worth droppin' 50 whole bucks on, or if I should hang onto it and get C&C3, which does indeed look awesome.

Back to SC, I like the idea of having 3 factories and packing up a game in 15 minutes, that sounds perfect. How many is the 'maximum number' of engineers a factory will support? TA never had a max number. Or do you mean max as in 'as many as he has'?

Also, what faction was he? Cybran seems to groove with my hit-and-fade kind of lifestyle, but they seem overplayed. Aeon might be good though--they're generally fast. If it wasn't for the Mantis... well, the Mantis is just nuts. ;D

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-03-21 10:22pm

Con your friend into letting you play a game online on his computer.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-03-21 10:29pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Con your friend into letting you play a game online on his computer.

I got online time during Beta. The Beta had all three sides available, so it was basically just a non-perfect version of retail as far as things go. It was actually pretty decent. My qualm at the moment is with the boringness of my own troops, not of the sedentary nature of the AI. Even if I had a lively partner, I'm not sure it would make me love the game, not until I develop a workable strategy that I enjoy playing. Right now I have the Ryu of strategies in my head, but I want something a bit more esoteric, like a Rolento or a Zangief.

Does that make sense? I understand how to play, and how it's advantageous to play, but I'm bored by it and find that road to victory to be frought with lameness. I'd rather do something unusual to jazz it up some, so I'm looking for that. I wish they had included a Faction with crazyass wierd units.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-03-22 12:08am

Covenant wrote:Back to SC, I like the idea of having 3 factories and packing up a game in 15 minutes, that sounds perfect. How many is the 'maximum number' of engineers a factory will support? TA never had a max number. Or do you mean max as in 'as many as he has'?

As far as I know, there's no max number of engineers or support commanders you can put on a factory, building, or experimental. The only limit is physical space, and your economy to support it.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-03-22 12:47am

I'll just assume that he had a crapload of them then.

Anyone have any ideas for alternative early pressure playstyles? I've heard that the Aurora is okay as the Aeon, but they seem too inaccurate for my tastes, and honestly the Aeon get weaker and weaker as Experimentals get closer. It would need to be one really good offensive rush to get in there and kill stuff without getting whacked by turrets.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-03-22 12:58am

Covenant wrote:Anyone have any ideas for alternative early pressure playstyles? I've heard that the Aurora is okay as the Aeon, but they seem too inaccurate for my tastes, and honestly the Aeon get weaker and weaker as Experimentals get closer. It would need to be one really good offensive rush to get in there and kill stuff without getting whacked by turrets.

Is there water on the map? Some of the Aeon T1 units can hover, and thus cross oceans. You could try attacking an unprotected flank.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-03-22 12:58am

t1 bot rush, t1 artillery rush, or t1 bomber rush are your only real options for early game attacks. The bot rush is better general-purpose, the artillery rush is great for UEF against base buildings, and the bomber rush is great if your opponent is caught unaware.

The Aurora's great points are that 1, it outranges all the other t1 tanks, and 2, it overs over water.