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aerius wrote:They can ban every single weapon earth, guns, knives, bats, hammers, whatever, but in the end it won't make a difference at all. Criminals don't follow the law, they will still have weapons, and they will still go around using them on citizens. OK, so suppose you could somehow confiscate every weapon, then what? Will people magically stop getting robbed and killed? It ain't gonna happen, getting rid of weapons ain't gonna get rid of crime. The perps will just improvise other weapons from everyday objects, and people will continue to be robbed, beaten, and killed as usual. A hammer, a shovel, a length of pipe, a screwdriver, and millions of other everyday things can easily become lethal weapons in the hands of a crook. All weapons bans do is disarm the citizen, and make him into an easier target for crime.

Baseball bats have proven popular as weapons in places where "real" weapons have been baned.

I would add that I wouldn't want to see what happens after banning all weapons. What then? Do people trained in martial arts have to be liscensed? Will everyone be at the mercy of whoever is bigger and stronger?

I suppose the nation would be in better shape, either from lifting weights to be big or from running so the "haulling ass" option can be used when necessary.

Headshots_Sold_Here wrote:To start: I don't own a gun, unless you count air rifles
Ok, say they totally outlaw guns. People use crossbows with poisin arrows and shit to kill. Where do you draw the line? air rifles? airsoft guns? highly modified nerf guns firing darts with pins in them???
A seriuos criminal can still get an AK or something easily. If that 2-bit criminal thinks the guy in a wheelchair he is gonna mug has a nice, cozy 50AE deagle in his bag, he's gonna think twice. Look at the swiss: must own and be able to use a rifle BY law, for men. Those muggers or robbers or whatever know the victim has an uzi or mac 10 or HK MP-7 or some other auto weapon and they won't attack.

New Zealand has quite strict gun laws compared to America, allthough we have very high rates of gun ownership, we have had only 27 police officers killed by firearms since 1890, How many has the US had?
Must be something wrong with America I guess

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Headshots_Sold_Here wrote:To start: I don't own a gun, unless you count air rifles
Ok, say they totally outlaw guns. People use crossbows with poisin arrows and shit to kill. Where do you draw the line? air rifles? airsoft guns? highly modified nerf guns firing darts with pins in them???
A seriuos criminal can still get an AK or something easily. If that 2-bit criminal thinks the guy in a wheelchair he is gonna mug has a nice, cozy 50AE deagle in his bag, he's gonna think twice. Look at the swiss: must own and be able to use a rifle BY law, for men. Those muggers or robbers or whatever know the victim has an uzi or mac 10 or HK MP-7 or some other auto weapon and they won't attack.

New Zealand has quite strict gun laws compared to America, allthough we have very high rates of gun ownership, we have had only 27 police officers killed by firearms since 1890, How many has the US had?
Must be something wrong with America I guess

The fact that you have 1/100th the population might also be a part of it.

Must be something wrong with America I guess

I dunno... for the past decade, gun ownership has been going up, and crime has been going down. Seems like America is doing something right to me.

Hey, next time you're feeling bored, look up Richmond, Virginia, and Project Exile.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Headshots_Sold_Here wrote:To start: I don't own a gun, unless you count air rifles
Ok, say they totally outlaw guns. People use crossbows with poisin arrows and shit to kill. Where do you draw the line? air rifles? airsoft guns? highly modified nerf guns firing darts with pins in them???
A seriuos criminal can still get an AK or something easily. If that 2-bit criminal thinks the guy in a wheelchair he is gonna mug has a nice, cozy 50AE deagle in his bag, he's gonna think twice. Look at the swiss: must own and be able to use a rifle BY law, for men. Those muggers or robbers or whatever know the victim has an uzi or mac 10 or HK MP-7 or some other auto weapon and they won't attack.

New Zealand has quite strict gun laws compared to America, allthough we have very high rates of gun ownership, we have had only 27 police officers killed by firearms since 1890, How many has the US had?
Must be something wrong with America I guess

The fact that you have 1/100th the population might also be a part of it.

What does that have to do with it? you think New Zealanders are essentially any different to Americans? or that our crims are differnt to those in the US?
Singapore has less crime than us and they are not allowed firearms, yet there are 5mill odd people there. Gun crime is a societal thing the example of NZ should illistrate this.

A more homogenous population has something to do with it as well, along with (I believe) a reduced population density. And given that a high percentage of officers killed in the US are murdered with their own weapons, the fact that there is a tradition of reduced firearms possession by police in many British orginated areas may have something to do with that. How many officers have been murdered with blunt/sharp weapons?

Something I don't understand is that left-winged politicians usually are for gun control. If there are few or no regulations on privately-owned armaments, socialist revolutionaries will have easier access to weapons and much greater capabilities of launching a campaign of terrorism and therefore greater chances of overthrowing the reigning parlament and disbanding it in favour of a socialist goverment. (of course, if these left-winged pro-gun ownership people were in power and orchestrated the guerilla warfare, they would probably be subject to similar accusations as those who hit Robert Mugabe and various military juntas)

New Zealand has quite strict gun laws compared to America, allthough we have very high rates of gun ownership, we have had only 27 police officers killed by firearms since 1890, How many has the US had?
Must be something wrong with America I guess

Its one of those sutble diffrences between don't notice

In New Zealand and elsewhere the majority of weapons are Rifle type with hand-guns being a very small section even less than shot-guns

However in America people don't purcase Rifles, Rather they get hand-guns and shot-guns
Simpley because Hand-Guns are easier for Criminal and Angery people to concile and most gun deaths in America happen to hand-guns


Does a Mugger stick you up with a Knife? A Smith and Weston or an AK-47?

Its pretty obvious that the Mugger will likley choose A or B rather than C becaues its hardre to concile

The weapons in the Old West Countrary to Westerns where mostly rifles not-handguns for men, it was women and police who carried Hand-guns

Oh and a follow-up Simon prehaps they think they will be the ones staging that revolt? after all a armed polpuace is much easier to get an uprising going with than an un-armed

Mr Bean wrote: However in America people don't purcase Rifles, Rather they get hand-guns and shot-guns
Simpley because Hand-Guns are easier for Criminal and Angery people to concile and most gun deaths in America happen to hand-guns

Hmm... this would explain why there is so little violence in Switzerland even though the male population are required to own a SG-550 each (by the way, it's just a method of conscription) ..... in other words.... it is impossible to conceal a long-barrelled rifle unless you're wearing a trenchcoat....

Even then people carrly them publicly, I've seen the pictures of the small cafe's with the slung over rifles, stuffed under tables or slung over shoulders and people treat it like normal, A great description I heard was of a shooting festavlile where groups of 2 to twenty people causly walking by the police station with various automatic rifles and some carring cases of ammo and the policeman outside waving good morning to them all

Try walking by a police station in America and doing that

Mr Bean wrote:

New Zealand has quite strict gun laws compared to America, allthough we have very high rates of gun ownership, we have had only 27 police officers killed by firearms since 1890, How many has the US had?
Must be something wrong with America I guess

Its one of those sutble diffrences between don't notice

In New Zealand and elsewhere the majority of weapons are Rifle type with hand-guns being a very small section even less than shot-guns

However in America people don't purcase Rifles, Rather they get hand-guns and shot-guns
Simpley because Hand-Guns are easier for Criminal and Angery people to concile and most gun deaths in America happen to hand-guns


Does a Mugger stick you up with a Knife? A Smith and Weston or an AK-47?

Its pretty obvious that the Mugger will likley choose A or B rather than C becaues its hardre to concile

The weapons in the Old West Countrary to Westerns where mostly rifles not-handguns for men, it was women and police who carried Hand-guns

Well of course most here have rifles, a pistol is no good for hunting is it? Having said that it is not unusual for crims to cut down a rifle to make it more concealable. And besides, a fire arm is a firarm and will do the job of robbery or whatever just as well as another. as most people will not attemt to fight a crim with a gun regardles of its size.

Guns and violent crime are a chicken-and-egg conundrum. Violent crimes tend to involve guns, and guns make it easier to commit violent crimes. So which causes which? Chicken and egg.

I think the root problem is cultural. American society promotes confrontation and conflict as the way to solve all problems. Even if we look at law-abiding citizens, how do they resolve disputes? With a civilized discussion and a handshake? Of course not; they resolve disputes with lawsuits and subpoenas. America is the most litigious nation in the world because Americans are taught from birth that when you don't get your way, use force. Criminals use guns, everyone else uses lawyers. Either way, the result is the same; the victim is coerced. That sort of cultural mindset breeds a desire to be able to wield more force than the next guy, which in turn leads to the American cultural obsession with guns, which are the most direct expression of force.

everyone else uses lawyers

Heh heh

What? You insult my honor? Lwayers GET HIM!(As a horde of underfed suit wearing brief casing wielding lawyers charge towards your enemys remeber it was the good people at State-Farm who made it all possible)