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Ugh, why anyone would slander a probable murder victim to make it easier for them to idolize a fucking homoerotic soap-opera star is beyond me.Darth Wong wrote:No real source ever said that. It was a completely made-up idea from wrestling fanboys, desperate to find some excuse to continue venerating this worthless piece of shit.Lord Pounder wrote:If Benoit did kill his wife because she killed the son I'm not sure I can say I'd blame him.
Do steroid rages last over twenty four hours? I have trouble believing that a crime of passion, even drug-induced, could describe two murders separated by a one or two dozen hours.Meest wrote:Now it's starting to look like a straight out rage killing it's even less believable.
For Benoit to have first killed the wife and then later the son while he's asleep in bed screams premeditation. He would had to either have taken her by complete surprise or lured her into a condition of helplessness beforehand so that she could not fight back or have any chance of escape while he's smothering the life out of her.Surlethe wrote:Do steroid rages last over twenty four hours? I have trouble believing that a crime of passion, even drug-induced, could describe two murders separated by a one or two dozen hours.Meest wrote:Now it's starting to look like a straight out rage killing it's even less believable.
It would appear something in Benoit 'snapped'. They'll have a definate timeline once the autopy's are completed obviously.Notes from the press conference to address the Benoit double homicide-suicide:
Lt. Tommy Pope:
-- The Sheriff's Department received a call for a welfare check (from WWE) at 2:30PM on Monday. While searching the house, they discovered the three bodies.
-- Based on the investigation, they are ruling it as a double homicide-suicide. Evidence leads them to believe that Chris Benoit, likely on Friday, murdered his wife by asphyxiation. Sometime after that (probably Saturday morning), he did the same to his son. Then, sometime late Saturday or Sunday, he committed suicide by hanging.
-- There was no suicide note located within the house.
-- To his knowledge, Benoit was never arrested for domestic violence.
-- There were a lot of prescription medications discovered; they were apparently legal prescriptions. Anabolic steroids were among the substances discovered, but Lt. Pope did not reveal specifics.
-- He text messaged a coworker; the coworker received the message several hours after it was sent. It apparently contained something curious.
-- According to preliminary estimates, he killed himself several hours, but no more than a day, after killing his son.
DA Scott Ballard:
-- His "bizarre" comment refers to the timing of the various deaths. Based on the investigation, some time elapsed between each death.
-- There was a Bible placed beside the bodies of his victims (Nancy and Daniel).
-- There were no signs of a struggle; the wife was bound on her feet and on her wrists. There was some blood under her head.
-- Authorities have no idea about the motive.
-- There was no 911 call.
-- Benoit hanged himself with the cord from a cable-loaded weight machine.
-- There is no evidence of an intruder.
STAMFORD, Conn., June 26, 2007 - World Wrestling Entertainment is stunned and saddened by the details released by local authorities concerning the double homicide-suicide involving Chris Benoit, his wife, Nancy, and his son, Daniel.
However, WWE is concerned with the sensationalistic reporting and speculation being undertaken by some members of the media following the press conference held by the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department and the District Attorney. During the press conference, the investigating authorities made the following points, all of which run contrary to the media speculation that "roid rage" was a factor in the senseless murders and suicide:
1. The authorities stated that all drugs found in the house were believed to be legal prescriptions.
2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.
3. Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.
4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.
5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.
WWE is continuing to monitor the ongoing investigation being conducted by local authorities.
The public persona is a lie and there's no reason you would see it coming. Don't confuse the character he played as a wrestler with who he really was. Despite the fact that he's supposedly "himself" it's just so much bullshit. In middle school I had something of an interest in wrestling but suffice to say with a little knowledge came a huge loss of interest. Everything about this is as fake as any tv show and don't ever think it's not.Solauren wrote:I must say, I'm both surprised, and disappointed.
Surprised in there was never any previous indication of anything like this from Benoit. Unlike other wrestlers, there was never any reported criminal charges against him.
(Unlike say, Stone Cold Steve Austin's martial problems, or Randy Orton's behaviour)
In public, he and his family always presented a very positive, very happy state. I've seen various publicity photos, and haven't seen on indication of anything but a normal family with the father having an ab-normal job.
Obviously not considering that apparently it was well known he had a volatile relationship with his wife. So while they may lay it on thick for the camera, it's at least some what insincere.Solauren wrote:The testimonials on Raw would appear to support that.
However, it would appear that is not the case.
That's like remembering Hitler as a frustrated artist who's failed career led him to lash out. I love how celebrities of any stripe get this sort of tip-toeing bull. They're criminals all the same. You can soft peddle it all you want. But you knew a tv character and nothing else. The real man is apparently a fucked up father, an abusive husband, and a double-murder.Solauren wrote:In the end, I will remember Chris Benoit as this ; A great entertainer, who's personal demons got the better of him. Someone to scorn for his final actions, dispair for the loss of life, and finally, give recognition for his work.
I'm not going to let him off the hook for his final actions. I will not slander his work, because that would also slander those that worked with him.
To be fair to them, it's highly unlikely that steroids could account for this. This isn't a guy having a heart attack or ODing on something nor is it a rage killing. He apparently deliberately murdered his family and made a weekend of it. That takes a some one very sick in the head to do.Masami von Weizegger wrote:And here comes WWE to fend off any association with steroids.
I had not heard that part -- the part about it being "well known," that is. (The only indication picked up before the restraining order news was people noticing William Regal's reaction video.)Stormbringer wrote:Obviously not considering that apparently it was well known he had a volatile relationship with his wife.
I believe i said that. I'm not letting him off the hook for his final actions.Stormbringer wrote:That's like remembering Hitler as a frustrated artist who's failed career led him to lash out. I love how celebrities of any stripe get this sort of tip-toeing bull. They're criminals all the same. You can soft peddle it all you want. But you knew a tv character and nothing else. The real man is apparently a fucked up father, an abusive husband, and a double-murder.Solauren wrote: I'm not going to let him off the hook for his final actions. I will not slander his work, because that would also slander those that worked with him.
Do you mean Wagner as in Richard Wagner, famed composer?Masami von Weizegger wrote:Some are comparing him to Wagner, for fuck's sake. Of course, Wagner never killed his seven year old son.
Yes. People who use steroids go through 'cycling' periods where they will use them daily for a few months at a time.Surlethe wrote:Do steroid rages last over twenty four hours? I have trouble believing that a crime of passion, even drug-induced, could describe two murders separated by a one or two dozen hours.Meest wrote:Now it's starting to look like a straight out rage killing it's even less believable.
Check this out.Stormbringer wrote:[
To be fair to them, it's highly unlikely that steroids could account for this. This isn't a guy having a heart attack or ODing on something nor is it a rage killing. He apparently deliberately murdered his family and made a weekend of it. That takes a some one very sick in the head to do.
From the Kaplan and Saddock's Synopsos of Clinical Psychiatry, 2008. The online text requires an account, but here's some of the entry.Diagnosis and Clinical Features
Steroids may initially induce euphoria and hyperactivity. After relatively short periods, however, their use can become associated with increased anger, arousal, irritability, hostility, anxiety, somatization, and depression (especially during times when steroids are not used). Several studies have demonstrated that 2 to 15 percent of anabolic steroid abusers experience hypomanic or manic episodes, and a smaller percentage may have clearly psychotic symptoms. Also disturbing is a correlation between steroid abuse and violence (“roid rage” in the parlance of users).
P.463
Steroid abusers with no record of antisocial behavior or violence have committed murders and other violent crimes.
Yeah, it's the old "Well, Wagner was an Anti-Semite and people still like his music so why can't I be a squealing Chris Benoit fan boy just because he's a cold, ruthless killer of children?" argument.Gandalf wrote:Do you mean Wagner as in Richard Wagner, famed composer?
Patrick Degan pointed out what I was alluding to: this double-murder is prima facie premeditated, and steroid rage doesn't, as far as I know, account for it. Will the rage last twenty-four hours, even at the height of a cycle, long enough for both crimes to be crimes of passion committed in the heat of the moment?Superman wrote:Yes. People who use steroids go through 'cycling' periods where they will use them daily for a few months at a time.Surlethe wrote:Do steroid rages last over twenty four hours? I have trouble believing that a crime of passion, even drug-induced, could describe two murders separated by a one or two dozen hours.Meest wrote:Now it's starting to look like a straight out rage killing it's even less believable.
I've made no secret about my juicing during my wrestling days. I never experienced this particular side effect, but I've seen it more than a few times.
Despite statements of his few close friends?Stormbringer wrote:The public persona is a lie and there's no reason you would see it coming. Don't confuse the character he played as a wrestler with who he really was. Despite the fact that he's supposedly "himself" it's just so much bullshit.
Not to detract from the topic at hand, but please tell me you're not one of those fake-blood wankers just because everything's scripted. In three shows with our local organization, I've witnessed a broken ankle, a concussion, a rolled ankle and more.In middle school I had something of an interest in wrestling but suffice to say with a little knowledge came a huge loss of interest. Everything about this is as fake as any tv show and don't ever think it's not.
Evidence?As for his rap sheet, he had a restraining order taken out against him and divorce motion filed a few years ago according to the news. So that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the difference between his persona and his real personality. His previous crimes were quieter than some but like most he's got a record all the same. You'd do well to remember that most of these guys have some crimes on their record; it's rare they don't.
I highly doubt that you could prove that. So don't even bother making strawmen like that, eh?So while they may lay it on thick for the camera, it's at least some what insincere.
Criminals or not, you can still celebrate the accomplishments. Chris Benoit was one of the most influential people in the wrestling business, and one of the most charismatic personalities, to boot. Regardless of his final actions, that much should be noted. You cannot NEGATE any of those actions because of one incident, no matter how harsh they were, because THEY STILL HAPPENED.That's like remembering Hitler as a frustrated artist who's failed career led him to lash out. I love how celebrities of any stripe get this sort of tip-toeing bull. They're criminals all the same. You can soft peddle it all you want. But you knew a tv character and nothing else. The real man is apparently a fucked up father, an abusive husband, and a double-murder.
I believe this behavior would definately fall under 'psychotic'.Superman wrote: Check this out.
Diagnosis and Clinical Features... Several studies have demonstrated that 2 to 15 percent of anabolic steroid abusers experience hypomanic or manic episodes, and a smaller percentage may have clearly psychotic symptoms. Also disturbing is a correlation between steroid abuse and violence (“roid rage” in the parlance of users).
P.463...
What that doesn't explain is the death timeline. THAT is what was fishy to me.Edward Yee wrote:Anyone disbelieve the timeline WWE.com has up? Detailed version, which had at last check but is no longer linked to at the homepage; this one goes into detail about preceding verbal conversation with Benoit.
It's not about 'cycling,' it's about the dosage he was taking. If he's been using steroids for many years, he may be taking them with no 'off cycle' at all; his body may have stopped producing testosterone on its own. When people experience what is known as Steroid-Induced Psychotic Disorder, we're talking aboutf doses of at least 1,000 mg of testosterone per week. What occurs is similar to what happens to meth users (in terms of mood regulation breaking down); they start to develop symptoms of mania, followed by psychosis. They hallucinate, become extremely paranoid, depressed, and many start to idealize suicide. People who suddenly stop taking them after prolonged periods of use may actually require hospitalization, as the withdrawal syndrome is also characterized by severe depression.Surlethe wrote:
Now, if the guy was suffering psychosis as a result of steroid abuse, that might help explain the murder, but I don't see how cycling addresses the question of explaining the murders as passion instead of calculation.
Thank you for the advanced forensic analysis, Matlock. And for demonstrating the idiotic lengths people will go to in order to defend their favourite shithead media pseudo-sports idols. I'll bet you thought people were fucking idiots to reflexively defend OJ Simpson, didn't you? But of course, you grew up with a different generation of sports heroes, and when one of them committed a murder, guess what: you reacted exactly the same way.haas mark wrote:What that doesn't explain is the death timeline. THAT is what was fishy to me.Edward Yee wrote:Anyone disbelieve the timeline WWE.com has up? Detailed version, which had at last check but is no longer linked to at the homepage; this one goes into detail about preceding verbal conversation with Benoit.