MKSheppard wrote:I'm not going to do a word for word rebuttal of every single sentence you say, unlike some posters.
You say this, but what do you end up doing later in your post? Just exactly that. Way to make a point there, Sheppy.
Point on Starforce, Sorry about that. Online verification isn't a panacea; it can be cracked, and imposes additional overhead to the developers, in both developing the verification system, and actually keeping the verification servers running.
It's much, much harder to crack, because the system can be updated dynamically. Abuses are easier to pick up on, etc. The cost of running an authentication server is minimal compared to the costs of the content servers anyway, and if the system is good enough and you get more sales from tighter protection, then it easily pays for itself. Make a game easy to pirate, your profits go down, see?
I don't need to. While cracked and pirated versions of virtually all of Matrix's games are easily available via the intardnet; I have yet to see cracked patches to circumvent the blacklisted serials for any of them. They all remain stuck at v1.0 initial releases.
Any sort of copy-protection can and will be circumvented anyway - CD Keys offer the best ROI for your programming investment; you only need to have a young intern scanning pirate sites to find the serial numbers that are given for the games; and make sure that the next patch EXE says "INVALID SERIAL NUMBER" when those serials are put in.
Cheap, and deters casual piracy without being onerous or assholish, meaning that when you're done with the game, you can simply give the CD/DVDs to a friend, along with the CD Key; and he can play it. No long convoluted sequence with the "Authentication Server" to transfer the license.
You're missing the point. CD Keys used to crack the game need not just be randomly generated, they can exist from the set of legitimate keys used. Then what? When their paying customers can't play their games because their CD Key happened to be one of the ones generated by the hackers, what are you going to do?
What if the internet activication system is Hell? Despite me legally owning a copy of Harpoon 3, logging into the Esellerate authentication server was always a hellish experience.
"We cannot connect to the Esellerate server, etc, etc so no playing Harpoon 3!"
The Matrix version of Harpoon 3 (ANW) ditched that retarded system for a simpler serial number.
If the problem is actually with the system itself, and not, say, a computer riddled with malware, then yeah, it's a problem with the people that set it up. I fail to see, however, how this is a problem with what Steam does. Especially given that if you can't log online, you can still play.
If the developers of an A+ title decide that even a routine CD Check isn't needed, then what is the point for central auth servers?
Hm, CD check every time you run the game, or ten seconds shortly after you finish installing? I wonder...
Also, again I have to ask what is the point here? I mean, okay, one company does things one way with niche games that very few people care about anyway, so the same security is okay for all games? Moreover, does this mean that if I can find a company with retarded security, does this mean that it's better, just because it's less? Is this going to turn into a retarded "Information wants to be free" love fest, because if so, I'm out.
And so what if there are a couple of pirates using CD Keys that they have obtained from their friends? The keys are useless within the pirating community unless they're released widely, and upon that, they can be found and blacklisted.
Sigh. Yes, because the only way pirates could get valid keys is from borrowing them from friends. Yeah right. Explained above. Eventually pirates can get every valid key, and there's no way to be sure you've got them all, even with interns on idiotboxes going to every warez site on the web.
Then why have I yet to see cracked patches for Matrix games?
Answer: Too much work for too little gain.
Or B: You haven't looked in the right places yet, or perhaps C: There's no need to crack the patch if the original crack has a valid CD Key.
Well thank you, I was just making sure I was clear on what I was talking about.
Yeah, because noCD patches were ever so vital to this discussion. Never mind that noCD patches are more for people who legally own the games anyway and don't want to be bothered putting in the disc every single time they want to play.
So we've now devolved to nitpicking spelling now? Hooray!
PROTIP: When you're attempting to insult one's intelligence, it helps to not fuck up the word you're using to insult them. C'mon Sheppy, it's not that hard.
Actually, it comes shipped with the game.
ESimGames
Of course, the game costs $125; and is primarily intended towards military personnel who want to train using commercially available hardware, but it's also available to civilians too.
A true consumer version, Steel Beasts 2, with a cheaper price tag ($40) and no dongle, is due out in '08.
Shep, this is a discussion about product authentication for DIGITALLY DISTRIBUTED GAMES. This little tangent? Yeah, it's meaningless. Why the fuck did you even bring it up in the first place? There is zero relevance, other than to wank about the games you like.
Again, we come down to ROI. Sure, anything can be bruteforced, but is it worth the time?
Again, you're assuming that it's a nontrivial amount of time.
You still need to install Steam to use the backup option; and you're shit out of luck if Steam suddenly develops a problem and won't let you do anything; like what just happened to Ando earlier in this thread.
That's funny, because Ando's problem got resolved pretty damn fast. Sure you want to use that as an example, Sheppy? Besides, it's easy enough to keep a physical copy of Steam around too, so keep flailing.
More to the point, I have actually used Steam. Once. To play Red Orchestra. Activication was relatively quick; but the "patching" process wasn't. God Damn it, I just want to play the game now to see what it's like, instead of having to wait xx minutes for a patch which automatically began downloading and installing without my consent to finish downloading from the Steam servers.
Oh no! You had to patch an online-only game! That's HORRIBLE! This is an emergency, you had to wait to be updated to the same versions as the servers. You had time that you couldn't play! Call the waaaahmbulance!
Of course, you can turn off automatic updates in Steam, but I suppose that doesn't matter either.
No, you're the one wailing around like a fucking moron, who has no idea of how bad copy protection CAN get.
We're talking specifically about Steam's authentication here Sheppy, with subsets into other methods of digital distribution. I know how bad copy protection can get, and I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that Steam's method is the great satan you're making it out to be. I just hear whining that other companies don't use it, so it must not be worthwhile or necessary, while you have yet to show how it is in any way harmful to the consumers. You advocate using patches to combat piracy, which means you can't be against some sort of online system, because all that patching bullshit doesn't do anything a central authentication server can't do, it just does it less effectively and with the same requirements, you need to be online.
No, that's your line.
Christ, now you're on the rubber and glue stage? Jesus Shep, that's just plain sad. Not only can't you make any good arguments, but you can't even think of any good insults. Not to mention you can't even live up to your own promises. Is there anything you're good at doing? I mean, other than adding that carbon to the O2?
It was a reply to your assertion that online server validation was the best, most secure method. And really, when you're paying $125 for the game, the $5 of the game's cost being taken up for a USB dongle isn't that much of a cost relatively speaking.
Most USB dongles are not $5. Can you back up your assertion that this one is? Not that it really matters, because this is in reference to digital distribution methods.
Excuse me, but I never said that. They're the best system to use for copy protection to defeat casual piracy, especially if you need a CD Key to play online; and they are not as intrusive as the other systems.
Remember, each dollar spent on a copy protection system and authentication server farm is a dollar less that can be spent on other aspects of the game; and in not a few cases, the copy protection can actually make the game buggy.
Meanwhile, Steam can easily afford such overhead, because they use primarily digital distribution, which has much lower costs than standard distribution. Moreover, each sale via Steam is worth more than a sale from a store, for obvious reasons. A more secure method than CD keys is beneficial because the more people you prevent from pirating the game, the more copies you are likely to sell. So far, this method seems to work well for Steam, while meanwhile not causing any serious problems, like making the games super-buggy. Start showing that Steam's method causes undue problems or shut the fuck up.
So you're going to flail wildly against a hard immutable fact of reality in the computer gaming world? Good luck with that. It's virtually impossible to catch every single bug in the game; and lets be honest, online downloading of patches are much superior to the old method.....getting a card and writing it to the game company to mail you a patch disk for the game... <snip meandering flashback>
and back i the world of the discussion at hand, let's set your strawman aside. If you're fine with copy protection included in patches you download online, you shouldn't have any problems at all with one-time online registration. Yet you do. No reason is given. Supply a reason or concede the fucking point already.
Oh yes, another story about Shock Force. It's a good thing that I didn't cannibalize my old computer when I upgraded; because it uses your beloved online activication/validation system to ensure that only one license for each game can be active at one time. Not a problem, no?
Ah, but you have to physically log into their authentication server from the original computer to "Deactivicate" your license before you can "activicate" it on your new computer.
So you can see why it was a good thing I had to build my new computer from 100% new parts instead of cannibalizing parts; otherwise I would have been shit out of luck with Shock Force.
When faced with such a retarded central server authentication scheme, I'll always pick CD Keys; because what if the central auth server goes down when the company goes out of business? (which is what happened to Harpoon 3 and ESellerate).
Huh? Oh god, I'm sorry, were you saying something? I forget, were we talking about Steam's authentication system, or some bullshit you pulled from your ass? Because I'm pretty sure it was the former. If you persist in senseless strawmen, why should I even continue having this conversation with you?
Funny you should say that. Seeing as at the ripe old age of 26, I've played all sorts of games with all kinds of copy protection, like random symbols written down on dark red paper (to deter xeroxing), which have to be entered each time you start up the game (Original Sim City, The Terminator), or where in order to actually proceed with the game, you have to have the sheet (Zak McKraken, where the sheet contains the airline codes you need to punch into ATMs to get a ticket to go to locations in the game), to having to flip through the god damn manual to find Word Seven, Line five, Paragraph two, Page 21 (Wing Commander, and a few Sierra Games).
How long you've been alive has nothing to do with how mature you are. You can stop whipping around your epeen, it's not impressive. Seriously, I don't fucking care. You can't stay on the subject, you can't defend a point. Hell, you can't even MAKE a point. Why are you still talking? Why don't you go off and crank one out to some overly complex military sim so you can pretend you have a functional brain?
Bottom line Shep, this is about Steam's copy protection, not any copy protection system you can possibly hope to bitch about. You made the argument that Steam's system is horrible, so get to it. I'm tired of hearing about all this other shit, get to the fucking point or concede.
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