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Right, Tal, because 3,000 businessmen and janitors are absolutely critical to the well being of the US Armed Forces...

2 things defined 9/11 for me...shock and uncertainty. When my friend called me to turn on the TV, I was thinking "Man, this is unreal...", although another part of me was thinking "Damn...Tom Clancy style...cool..."[/flamebait]. The uncertainty came with the realisation that the world has just CHANGED. Things won't be the same anymore, and with George W. in power, I was wondering what he was going to do.

With Columbia, there was shock as well...but since there already was a precedent with Challenger, the shock wasn't that great. The uncertainty I felt was due to the future of the space program, which I care greatly for...

When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Fuck off. If I was more mean-spirited, I would wish the same thing to you, your countrymen, and your great city of Toronto. See how you feel when people cheer for your heartache then, ass.

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Shut the hell up.

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Shut the fuck up. If you're trying to be funny, then just shut up and die.

I have to concur with Zaia and Spanky, do not engage your mouth without first consulting your brain.

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Ted, thank you for proving you're a completelt heartless jackass.

Zaia, I really can't feel any sort of emotion towards 9-11 or the recent Columbia disaster. It's not that I don't feel anything, but it's almost more like I can't.

All I feel is initial disbelief that it occurred (in the case of WTC, is was about 2-3 days), then I'm pretty much totally over it.

I think it might be how I treat death and such: when things happen to people I don't know, I can't find much reason to feel bad or anything - it's like I read about it in a book or something, instead of it happening in real life. Actually, I think I might be more effected by things that I read or see in films.

What I'm trying to ask (and anyone can answer this, not just Zaia) is: Am I a bad person because I'm not emotionally effected by tragedies at all?

I'll risk the flames. It was 9/11. I just saw it as another piece of news and don't really understand why people like my parents (Who didn't know anybody there and had no connection to it at all ,6 degrees of seperation withstanding) would just sit in front of the telly all day watching the same footage over and over. You know whats happened, you can make an educated guess what else will happen (ie. the tower(s) will fall down) and you've already got a good idea of who had done it (split between Bin Laden, Saddam and Gaddaffi in our house) so why sit in front of the TV watching it over and over again! It was hardly riveting stuff! They showed the video of the crash every five minutes and basically kept on repeating that at <time it happened> jets crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania (sp).

I felt almost exactly the same way, except I wanted revenge, no sympathy or anything, just a need for revenge, I saw the strike as an insult to the country.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:What I'm trying to ask (and anyone can answer this, not just Zaia) is: Am I a bad person because I'm not emotionally effected by tragedies at all?

No. Some people do cope with it that way. My entire family's pretty much like that. My mother never cried when either of her parents died. I've never seen my father cry, and he's raised his voice twice in my entire life...once when my mother almost lost a finger in an accident and once when I got into the third fight in school in a year. I haven't cried at the deaths of my grandfather, grandmother, great-aunt, great-grandmother, or best friend. The only funeral I felt any emotion at all at was my band director's, and that was mostly empathetic due to the huge number of my friends who were crying. There were 350 of us, and I think we were all in shock for about a week, and then we just went on as if it hadn't happened. I cried later when we performed a tribute for him, but I don't really feel much emotion over those sort of things.

verilon wrote:Okay, this is going to sound strange coming from me, but is there anyone else out there completely apathetic towards the whole Columbia space shutle thing? I know it's weird coming from me due to my empathy issues, but i seriously don't feel anything for these people. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy the event, but I don't care. Doesn't phase me a bit. And you don't think I have fubar morals...

They knew the risks. While I'm not completely apathetic, my care-level is not all that high...

At 9/11, I was more angry than sad...

With Columbia, I think it's bad that 7 people die, but mostly I was worried about the space program...

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Zaia, I really can't feel any sort of emotion towards 9-11 or the recent Columbia disaster. It's not that I don't feel anything, but it's almost more like I can't.

I'm not judging you for that, Spank. For 9/11, I was (and still am) more sensitive than most because I had an aunt who worked in one of the towers, an uncle who's a NYC cop and another uncle who's a NY fireman. I was one of the thousands of people who were frantically calling into the city to find out if I had lost anyone in my family. Thankfully, my aunt had a meeting outside the city that day and neither of my uncles were killed during the rescue efforts, but it so easily could have been any of them.

What I'm trying to ask (and anyone can answer this, not just Zaia) is: Am I a bad person because I'm not emotionally effected by tragedies at all?

Of course not. Everyone's different; everyone deals with things in their own way. Maybe you are fearless and you don't scare that easily, maybe you were upset deep down but never let that surface, or maybe it just seemed like one more crappy thing going on in the world. Some people curled up into a ball on their couch and cried themselves to sleep, some people went to church to ask G-d why it happened, some people went out to hit mailboxes with baseball bats, and other people killed anyone who crossed their path who looked remotely foreign. Everyone's different.

HemlockGrey wrote:Right, Tal, because 3,000 businessmen and janitors are absolutely critical to the well being of the US Armed Forces...

directly critical? not at all. few people are important that way, singly. but the surprise of 3k deaths on our own terroritories, the expense of losing two skyscrapers, 3 or 4 planes, the psychological trauma in nyc, the slow down in the stock market and the shut down on tourist trade and airline flights, decrease in profit and taxes, and then increased deficit spending on the military - a *very* expensive propisition, and considering it cost a few million dollars and 20 or so lives - an effective attack.

Enforcer Talen wrote:

HemlockGrey wrote:Right, Tal, because 3,000 businessmen and janitors are absolutely critical to the well being of the US Armed Forces...

directly critical? not at all. few people are important that way, singly. but the surprise of 3k deaths on our own terroritories, the expense of losing two skyscrapers, 3 or 4 planes, the psychological trauma in nyc, the slow down in the stock market and the shut down on tourist trade and airline flights, decrease in profit and taxes, and then increased deficit spending on the military - a *very* expensive propisition, and considering it cost a few million dollars and 20 or so lives - an effective attack.

I don't think anyone's arguing to say that it wasn't effective. Of course it was fucking EFFECTIVE--it EFFECTIVELY fucked up and fucked over anyone thinking that people decently declare war these days, anyone thinking that care was given to avoid civilian deaths instead of seeking them out, anyone thinking that a few THOUSAND FUCKING DEATHS was letting us off easy for what we deserved as a country because they just don't really like how we do things over here. Well guess what, sometimes I don't fucking like it either, but part of this country's beauty is that everyone does their own thing here because they're allowed to. I don't like some aspects of their society--I don't like how they treat women like me. Does that mean it's ok for me to go out with some of my friends and fucking blow up their buildings, families, children, and friends?! Fuck that, of course not.

No one said it was ineffective; unfortunately, it was horrifically effective.

Look, everyone here should know my stance on these matters. I'm not going to post anything because the moment I do I'll be flamed beyond anything that much of this board has encountered before.

Crayz9000 wrote:Might have to do with the fact that most of us are NT personality types; that is, we prefer to think about stuff...

My reaction to such a thing is usually "Holy shit, did I just see that?" then I proceed to think about what might have caused it...

That's how I was on both 9-11 and with the Columbia, heard about it, started thinking about the effects and problems which could have caused the ultimate end. (My mom got SOOO pissed with me on 9/11 when I pulled out the TI-92 and started doing impact KE calcs and structural load stress calcs for the buildings and aircraft impacts... She was absolutely screaming livid when me and my dad started slinging numbers back and forth on the subject while the second tower went down.)

Zaia wrote:

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Fuck off. If I was more mean-spirited, I would wish the same thing to you, your countrymen, and your great city of Toronto. See how you feel when people cheer for your heartache then, ass.

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Shut the hell up.

You know, I would care if TO was bombed, but as well, no-one has ANY REASON TO BOMB CANADA.

The US has pissed alot of people off, major intelligence and military think-tanks around the world expected an attack, Jane's publicly stating that a few weeks before Sept 11, and again, post Sept 11 during interviews.

For anyone to say that the attacks were unexpected is incredibly stupid and has no knowledge of foreign policy.

Hyperion wrote:That's how I was on both 9-11 and with the Columbia, heard about it, started thinking about the effects and problems which could have caused the ultimate end. (My mom got SOOO pissed with me on 9/11 when I pulled out the TI-92 and started doing impact KE calcs and structural load stress calcs for the buildings and aircraft impacts... She was absolutely screaming livid when me and my dad started slinging numbers back and forth on the subject while the second tower went down.)

Yeah, in math class, we discussed the KE and explosive force of the gas going off.

Columbia was like that, judging the break offs, seeing how much broke off at each split.

Ted wrote:

Zaia wrote:

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Fuck off. If I was more mean-spirited, I would wish the same thing to you, your countrymen, and your great city of Toronto. See how you feel when people cheer for your heartache then, ass.

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Shut the hell up.

You know, I would care if TO was bombed, but as well, no-one has ANY REASON TO BOMB CANADA.

The US has pissed alot of people off, major intelligence and military think-tanks around the world expected an attack, Jane's publicly stating that a few weeks before Sept 11, and again, post Sept 11 during interviews.

For anyone to say that the attacks were unexpected is incredibly stupid and has no knowledge of foreign policy.

Ted, just shut your fucking mouth and quit digging yourself a deeper grave. The fact that the US has pissed people off give you NO FUCKING RIGHT th think 'cool' when thousands of people ARE FUCKING DYING!

IG-88E wrote:
Ted, just shut your fucking mouth and quit digging yourself a deeper grave. The fact that the US has pissed people off give you NO FUCKING RIGHT th think 'cool' when thousands of people ARE FUCKING DYING!

I didn't think it was cool, but I was being less than compassionate (laughing and at times cheering) while watching the telecast.

Sure it was a shitty event and "evil", but damn, you guys did have it coming.

very, very, very interesting thread, indeed. once the ice is broken it seems that everybody wants to tell the REAL feelings they had about 9/11 and not the feelings which they´re expected to have.

It probably helps when you're not in the same country that it occurs.

probably if you´re in a country not belonging to the western world.
otherwise, i reckon, a lot of people considered the attack a personel attack on their own security. that´s the emotional side.

it´s hard for me to imagine what it would be like to feel the pain of losing 3000 people. i dont think it´s possible to grasp the extent of a number of deaths that high.
i guess the people who had loved ones in the towers would feel the same if they had died in a drive by shooting.

on the other hand there´s your brain side, your logical side. it tells you that the 3000 people who died are a huge amount deaths. it´s a lot worse than the drive by shooting mentioned above but next to nothing compared to for example the holocaust.

there are always two sides of feeling something. the emotional side and the (damn, what´s the opposite of emotional in english) logical(?) side.

IG-88E wrote:Ted, just shut your fucking mouth and quit digging yourself a deeper grave. The fact that the US has pissed people off give you NO FUCKING RIGHT th think 'cool' when thousands of people ARE FUCKING DYING!

You know what though Iggy?

Those few thousand are INSIGNIFICANT.

Look at the Rawandan Civil War.

In 7 months, 800,000 were hacked to death by machetes.

You could walk across the rivers by walking across the limbs.

The water flowed RED for fucks sake.

Yet do the americans care, no.

If Bin Laden had set off one of his supposed dirty nukes in NY, then maybe I might not have been so apathetic towards americans.

weemadando wrote:

IG-88E wrote:
Ted, just shut your fucking mouth and quit digging yourself a deeper grave. The fact that the US has pissed people off give you NO FUCKING RIGHT th think 'cool' when thousands of people ARE FUCKING DYING!

I didn't think it was cool, but I was being less than compassionate (laughing and at times cheering) while watching the telecast.

Sure it was a shitty event and "evil", but damn, you guys did have it coming.

that´s fucked up, man!
on the other hand i wouldnt be surprised if a fair amount of sd.net members would cheer if baghdadh was carped bombed.

Ted wrote:

Zaia wrote:

Ted wrote:When I first heard that america was attacked on Sept. 11, I was like Cool!

Fuck off. If I was more mean-spirited, I would wish the same thing to you, your countrymen, and your great city of Toronto. See how you feel when people cheer for your heartache then, ass.

Then I thought that it was the CIA who had set it up, then after the yanks were like "We know who did it" hours after, I thought that the yanks had purposely let them attack.

Shut the hell up.

You know, I would care if TO was bombed, but as well, no-one has ANY REASON TO BOMB CANADA.

The US has pissed alot of people off, major intelligence and military think-tanks around the world expected an attack, Jane's publicly stating that a few weeks before Sept 11, and again, post Sept 11 during interviews.

For anyone to say that the attacks were unexpected is incredibly stupid and has no knowledge of foreign policy.

If you or anyone else mention attacking Canada or USA again I'm blowing their heads off!