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charlemagne wrote:

Bounty wrote:
On a more serious note: well yes, 15 is a hyperbole.

Yes. In actuality they look like twentysomethings; still a little too young for such important positions. Of course with Spock it's OK since he's not human. Does anyone remember how old Kirk was supposed to be according to TOS when he first took command of the Enterprise? In the series Shatner looks about 35, i.e. his own real age at the time. Still fairly young for a captain of a major ship, but within reason.

Sidewinder wrote: Weapons should be designed with PRACTICALITY in mind. Gun turrets are practical because the sights and other targeting systems can be mounted on them, sharing a line-of-sight (and fire) so it's easier to aim the weapons. The phaser strips from 'The Next Generation'... not as practical.

Well, most real war ships don't have the primary targeting system in the turrets. The exception are some autonomous CIWS like Phalanx. There is simply not enough room in most turrets for a really good targeting system. Modern ships typically rely on radar and also have passive sensors such as thermal imagers and of course traditional optical sights. In the pre-radar era war ships had big optical gun directors with stereoscopic rangefinders. Turrets had their own targeting sights, but they were much inferior to the main directors.

Real ages:

John Cho/Sulu- 35
Simon Pegg/Scotty-38
Karl Urban/ MCCoy- 36
Zoe Saldana/ Uhura- 30
Chris Pine/ Kirk- 28
Anton Yelchin/ Chekov- 19

So if we're looking at a movie that has Chekov as a cadet and Kirk having just taken the Kobayashi Maru test, then the actors aren't really that fucking young. A couple of the actors are older than the original actors were at this point in canon.

Marcus Aurelius wrote:Well, most real war ships don't have the primary targeting system in the turrets. The exception are some autonomous CIWS like Phalanx. There is simply not enough room in most turrets for a really good targeting system. Modern ships typically rely on radar and also have passive sensors such as thermal imagers and of course traditional optical sights. In the pre-radar era war ships had big optical gun directors with stereoscopic rangefinders. Turrets had their own targeting sights, but they were much inferior to the main directors.

I recall an episode where the beam weapons were manually aimed to prevent a lock on (specifically, active sensors used to lock weapons onto a target) from alerting the enemy. The incident in question involved Worf manually aiming a Klingon warship's weapons; I don't remember whether or not manual targeting is possible with a Federation starship's weapons, but considering the bizarre configuration of a phaser strip, I suspect manual targeting won't be very accurate.

Sidewinder wrote: I don't remember whether or not manual targeting is possible with a Federation starship's weapons, but considering the bizarre configuration of a phaser strip, I suspect manual targeting won't be very accurate.

Worf aimed the E-E's phasers manually in "Nemesis" (guided by Troi who could somehow feel the Reman guy who mind-raped her). I don't think the phaser strip design has any impact on accuracy, unless when aiming manually you also have to tell the array where the beam shall leave the strip. At least Worf only had his finger over a little star chart, moving a cursor around, and just hit a "Make it so" button when Troi said "Fire".

Cast looks too young and Nero does resemble Shinzon too much visually. Other than that, I do like the updated uniforms and bridge. Ultimately, I'm still cautiously optimistic.

Sidewinder wrote:

Stark wrote:

Sidewinder wrote:I still like the design; gun turrets say, "You can have my ship when you tear it from my cold, dead fingers," instead of "Don't shoot! We have no weapons more dangerous than a frowning Klingon!" as Picard-era ships seem to say.

Lol weapons should clearly be designed with style in mind!

Weapons should be designed with PRACTICALITY in mind. Gun turrets are practical because the sights and other targeting systems can be mounted on them, sharing a line-of-sight (and fire) so it's easier to aim the weapons. The phaser strips from 'The Next Generation'... not as practical.

Yeah. The problem with Picard era ships was totally the phaser strips as opposed to a hit to a random part of the ship disabling major systems not even remotely in the vicinity.
Line-of-sight doesn't figure into it (and here's a hint:there's a reason modern warships DON'T mount their targeting systems on the weapons mounts) because barring parts of the starship being in the way, the targeting systems can see the entire hemisphere, wether they're turreted or not. And UNlike turreted weapons, phaser strips do NOT need to be mechanically trained on a new bearing to engage a moving target.

Sidewinder wrote: I recall an episode where the beam weapons were manually aimed to prevent a lock on (specifically, active sensors used to lock weapons onto a target) from alerting the enemy. The incident in question involved Worf manually aiming a Klingon warship's weapons; I don't remember whether or not manual targeting is possible with a Federation starship's weapons, but considering the bizarre configuration of a phaser strip, I suspect manual targeting won't be very accurate.

Manual aiming was also done in "The Wrath of Khan" during the nebula battle.

Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:Real ages:

John Cho/Sulu- 35
Simon Pegg/Scotty-38
Karl Urban/ MCCoy- 36
Zoe Saldana/ Uhura- 30
Chris Pine/ Kirk- 28
Anton Yelchin/ Chekov- 19

So if we're looking at a movie that has Chekov as a cadet and Kirk having just taken the Kobayashi Maru test, then the actors aren't really that fucking young. A couple of the actors are older than the original actors were at this point in canon.

For reference, compare to the age of the actors during TOS - season 1

Shatner - 35
Nimoy - 35
Deforest Kelley - 46
James Doohan - 46
Nichelle Nichols - 34
George Takei - 29

If this is all supposed to take place a few years before TOS, that doesn't line up THAT bad. With the actors playing McCoy and Scotty being somewhat older than the rest. Sulu is a bit off. In continuity I think the characters were mostly a few years younger (based on a quick check of Memory Alpha, Kirk was supposed to be 33 during season 1.

Sidewinder wrote: I recall an episode where the beam weapons were manually aimed to prevent a lock on (specifically, active sensors used to lock weapons onto a target) from alerting the enemy. The incident in question involved Worf manually aiming a Klingon warship's weapons; I don't remember whether or not manual targeting is possible with a Federation starship's weapons, but considering the bizarre configuration of a phaser strip, I suspect manual targeting won't be very accurate.

Are you saying if you have a turreted weapon with no fire control, engagement is still practical? As said, in TWOK Sulu tries 'best guess' firing with the turrets on E-A and misses at nearly POINT BLANK RANGE against a near STATIONARY TARGET that is unaware and run by idiots. The problem with Fed ships is the centralised fire-control system that keeps falling over, not the superficial appearance of their guns and how macho or gritty they are.

Amusingly, saying that Klingon weapons are better because they can be blind-fired ignores their significantly poorer performance overall, accuracy wise.

I do miss the multi-stage torpedo firing trigger, though. In the TOS movies, the fire control system seemed to be a lot more practical than the silly Okudagrams in TNG. In the E-Nil, I believe the phaser turrets were even manned indirectly, so I guess they killed that level of control before TWOK.

Another angle on Nero... a little less Shinzon I think



New Sulu and McCoy shots

Man, I'm loving the Sulu trademark frown. I hope he's got the voice too, Takei's voice is so goddamn awesome.

Sulu looks like he missed cupcake day in the mess hall, Chekov has a blank look, and Shiz...I mean Nero looks even worse in light then the half assed darkness. Sorry a bunch of tatoos does not seperate much from the effete model we got as the last so called villain.

Really, it is not warming me to the movie.

Actually I though the new pictures looked better. Except for the villain, who still looks terrible. With those curved, exageratedly pointy ears, bizzar tatoos, and pale skin, it almost looks like they're trying for a demonic look. It sure as hell doesn't look right for a Romulan.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Actually I though the new pictures looked better. Except for the villain, who still looks terrible. With those curved, exageratedly pointy ears, bizzar tatoos, and pale skin, it almost looks like they're trying for a demonic look. It sure as hell doesn't look right for a Romulan.

There is no reason Romulans can't vary in appearance and culture. They don't have to be homogenous. One thing StarTrek has always failed at is that it makes every species basically one culture and one appearance.

Gil Hamilton wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Actually I though the new pictures looked better. Except for the villain, who still looks terrible. With those curved, exageratedly pointy ears, bizzar tatoos, and pale skin, it almost looks like they're trying for a demonic look. It sure as hell doesn't look right for a Romulan.

There is no reason Romulans can't vary in appearance and culture. They don't have to be homogenous. One thing StarTrek has always failed at is that it makes every species basically one culture and one appearance.

Yes that's true. I suppose they could even be trying to show more diverse Romulans, if one wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Gil Hamilton wrote:There is no reason Romulans can't vary in appearance and culture. They don't have to be homogenous. One thing StarTrek has always failed at is that it makes every species basically one culture and one appearance.

I think they could have varied from the typical Romulan without creating a design that has Star Trek forums saying, "Shinzon?" Of course, we've just got one picture here, so maybe things will be great in the final product, and we'll get a villian who breaks from the Romulan mold without being stereotypical in other ways.

Karl Urban looks a bit more like Gary Mitchell than McCoy.

Stark wrote:Man, I'm loving the Sulu trademark frown. I hope he's got the voice too, Takei's voice is so goddamn awesome.

"Oh my!"

Yes, we can hope, can't we?

Marcus Aurelius wrote:

charlemagne wrote:
On a more serious note: well yes, 15 is a hyperbole.

Yes. In actuality they look like twentysomethings; still a little too young for such important positions. Of course with Spock it's OK since he's not human. Does anyone remember how old Kirk was supposed to be according to TOS when he first took command of the Enterprise? In the series Shatner looks about 35, i.e. his own real age at the time. Still fairly young for a captain of a major ship, but within reason.

According to The Making of Star Trek (and startrek.com's biography of Kirk), he was 31 when he first became Captain.

JME2 wrote:

Stark wrote:Man, I'm loving the Sulu trademark frown. I hope he's got the voice too, Takei's voice is so goddamn awesome.

"Oh my!"

Yes, we can hope, can't we?

I doubt his voice will be the same. George Takei has a fairly distinct voice. John Cho? Well, not so much and I suspect he won't try to imitate George Takei.

[quote="Bounty"]Sexy. Isn't that a FASA design?

No, more like the Akula Class Destroyer, from Klingon Academy.

...NCC-0514? Weird ASS registry.

Palantas wrote:I think they could have varied from the typical Romulan without creating a design that has Star Trek forums saying, "Shinzon?" Of course, we've just got one picture here, so maybe things will be great in the final product, and we'll get a villian who breaks from the Romulan mold without being stereotypical in other ways.

I think his big resemblance to Shinzon is that both have shaved heads. Otherwise, they don't resemble each other THAT much.

Catman wrote:

Bounty wrote:Sexy. Isn't that a FASA design?

No, more like the Akula Class Destroyer, from Klingon Academy.

...NCC-0514? Weird ASS registry.

PROTIP - KA and SFC are based on FASA boardgames.

If it's got the underslung torpedo pod I'll be a happy man, lol.

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Palantas wrote:I think they could have varied from the typical Romulan without creating a design that has Star Trek forums saying, "Shinzon?" Of course, we've just got one picture here, so maybe things will be great in the final product, and we'll get a villian who breaks from the Romulan mold without being stereotypical in other ways.

I think his big resemblance to Shinzon is that both have shaved heads. Otherwise, they don't resemble each other THAT much.

I agree. I think this "zomglolwtfbbq shinzon!" whining is ridiculous. He's bald and he's attached to the Romulans (Shinzon was a friggin' human, to boot). And that's it. People are trying to find any potential minor crack in this movie and exaggerate it because they've been burned by Trek movies, helmed by entirely different production crews, in the past. It's a load of shit and it's really obnoxious to scroll through it all.