CNC: 4 Announced

[TC Pilot]

As for CNC4: Bringing back the Walker Mammoth is silly. CNC3 stated they were removed and brought back the Mammoth Tank so switching back is pointless. Although if they are that keen to pander to fans then just include both.

C&C3 said that they stopped Mk. II production because of budgetary concerns based off the idea that Nod wasn't much of a threat anymore to justify that lumbering monstrosity. Then Kane pops back up and blows up Philadelphia. Since he actually survived C&C3, and Nod's always been vastly more dangerous and active when Kane's around, it would make sense to bring the Mk. II back into service, since by all accounts it's still one of the best armored vehicles GDI has, even after 25 years. Though I'll admit the idea of budget problems for an economy that derives most of its wealth from a mineral that's overrun more than half the entire planet is silly.

Thus jumping forward in time is going to require explanation including why Tiberium suddenly appears to be winning when GDI has the means to fight it back in CNC3.

GDI had the means to fight it as far back as Firestorm when they cracked the Tacitus. Problem is, Kane's goal for the last half-century has been spreading the damn stuff. See the ending to Tiberian Sun, for example.

And I doubt that gigantic Tiberian explosion GDI caused by blasting the Temple of Nod helped matters at all.

The game is highly dedicated to the rush / 5 minute game mentality with offense being focused on more than any of the defenses but it at least looks feasible and the micro is limited to sensible levels.

I found that playing under the old Tiberian Dawn/Red Alert/Tiberian Sun mentality worked quite well. I only had problems with base defenses in situations where it was emphatically supposed to be difficult (that one GDI level where your base is surrounded on all sides, or protecting the Temple of Nod).

Although really, the story of CNC has gotten disjointed so much over the games that I just play the game, watch the movie and dont care.

How has it become disjointed?

[Uraniun235]

Though I'll admit the idea of budget problems for an economy that derives most of its wealth from a mineral that's overrun more than half the entire planet is silly.

Maybe it was disproportionally labor-intensive to construct and/or maintain?

[TC Pilot]

Maybe it was disproportionally labor-intensive to construct and/or maintain?

Well, from Renegade, we know that GDI builds their tanks on sight with magic beams that make the vehicles appear out of thin air...

[PREDATOR490]

The original idea of RA was to be a precursor to Tib Dawn but that got changed so now there is supposedly 3 seperate branches of Command and Conquer. Technically Kane should still be in the RA universe though unless by some wierd plot he has the ability to jump between realties. Additionally, there is the vague hint that he is supposedly thousands of years old etc. and the ending of CNC3 implies he either isnt human or somehow has access to technology that made the Scrin aware of him and vice versa. I seem to recall Tiberian Sun had the vessel and the Tacticus built by Kane originally but CNC3 rewrote that to be another race.

Regardless, the story behind CNC is woefully under developed and over the course of 15 years it has been altered to suit the whims of those making the next game which now rests in the questionable hands of EA. As for the Mammoth, I recall it being mentioned one of the reasons it was taken off the lines was due to Commandos being able to destroy their legs like they do with Avatars and Tripods and frankly, I find the Mammoth tank more efficiant than the AT-AT wannabe. If they turn it into a mobile base platform then fair enough but realistically the two of them should be included and it makes no sense for GDI to throw away the Mammoth Tank in favour of a Mammoth Walker.

[TC Pilot]

The original idea of RA was to be a precursor to Tib Dawn but that got changed so now there is supposedly 3 seperate branches of Command and Conquer.

No. Fans have often theorized that Soviet-victory RA is a prequel to C&C, but that's never been confirmed. Considering Tiberian Dawn mirrors post-Cold War borders exactly, I've never held much stock in those claims.

I seem to recall Tiberian Sun had the vessel and the Tacticus built by Kane originally but CNC3 rewrote that to be another race.

No. In Tiberian Sun, Kane flat-out says he discovered the Scrin ship, and the Tacitus is, presumably, a Scrin memory core, considering it contained advanced weapons schematics Kane used in Tiberian Sun to make Banshees and chemical missiles. It wouldn't make sense for Kane to concoct advanced weapons schematics, store them on the Tacitus, then get Tratos to help translate it (though how Tratos knew how to translate it was never clear), all so he could use those advanced weapons. It is, by all accounts, entirely alien in origin.

Technically Kane should still be in the RA universe though unless by some wierd plot he has the ability to jump between realties. Additionally, there is the vague hint that he is supposedly thousands of years old etc.

Kane has always been the big mystery. Firestorm's clone answer isn't good enough, but then again, no answer is good enough. Nor do I neccesarily want an answer.

As for the Mammoth, I recall it being mentioned one of the reasons it was taken off the lines was due to Commandos being able to destroy their legs like they do with Avatars and Tripods and frankly, I find the Mammoth tank more efficiant than the AT-AT wannabe. If they turn it into a mobile base platform then fair enough but realistically the two of them should be included and it makes no sense for GDI to throw away the Mammoth Tank in favour of a Mammoth Walker.

Regarding the legs, I think that's the Titan you're remembering. A pity, I liked those things. I seem to recall the in-game article saying that the Mk. II was actually better than the Mk. III. General "Havoc" Parker is quoted saying that the administrators are pussy-footing and not giving the military side the firepower it needs.

The Mk. II's cutscene performance is far more impressive than its in-game performance, being able to charge through the front gate of a Nod base, blasting away willy-nilly while Obelisks take ineffectual pot-shots. The implication in the Nod mission to destroy the prototype was that only the new Banshees had enough firepower to take the thing out. Though it was always nice to come across an old Mk. I in Tiberian Sun; they were about as good, if not better, than a GDI Titan

[Uraniun235]

I remember looking at the unit definition file - the Mammoth actually was better than a Titan, and based on the cost given it if you made it buildable, was even more cost-effective. Even if the main gun firepower wasn't equivalent, the Tank's missile racks were incredibly handy for taking on a wandering Nod aircraft, although no longer nearly as effective against infantry as they were in Dawn.

[Nephtys]

The Mk3 Mammoth in CNC3 made perfect sense. It was a cheaper tank that was nearly as powerful as the Mk2. It has the two railguns, the missiles, the self-repair (however that's supposed to work 'in theme'). Given that the Mk2 was rare enough to impose an in-game limitation indicated it's production issues. It'd be more equivalent to a MARV.

I think the feeling of disjointedness between the CNCs is their weird change in tone. CNC1 was an attempt to be the late 90s, but with some crazy elements. CNC2 was a dystopian post-apocalyptic war, with heroes flying battlecruisers or burrowing tanks. CNC3 then suddenly felt like what we think the 2010s or 20s would be like, but with robots and laser beams. It was much more cheerful, since EVERYWHERE you fought in CNC2 was basically a Red Zone.

[TheKwas]

Moveable bases are in general totally useless in Starcraft. It's too slow to be an escape, and it's only really 'useful' to 'hide' a barracks somewhere which is seldom going to make a difference (outside of ninja harvesting anyway). Some guy using it usefully once doesn't really mean shit; it's not like effective strategies had it at their core or anything.

Actually, the most popular terren strategy on Lost Temple (the most popular Blizzard map in pro circles) and many other maps is to use a moveable Barracks as a 'gate' to your base. Build a wall of supply depots with an opening where you put a barracks. If you get attacked you're in a good defensive position with a wall seperating your ranged units on higher terrain (Marines early on, Tanks later on) against the enemies short range units on lower terrain, but if you want to move your units out you simply liftoff barracks. Furthermore, you would often use your enginnering bay in liftoff mode to float infront of your base to increase the range of your tanks and to provide a false target to attacking units. In both strategies, the liftoff ability is essential.

There's plenty of other strategies where the liftoff ability is extremely helpful, most of them revolved around building walls but others on things like building Command Centers in safe areas then moving them out later once you've made a good defence in the place you want to expand, or simply on saving the odd factory or barracks in a long game when you lose one of many bases.

[Nephtys]

Using a barracks as a 'gate' isn't really mobile bases. It's an unintended use, and hardly speaks volumes about the tactical uses of base mobility, which clearly was originally for establishing nomadic resourcing and production ops.

[Uraniun235]

The Mk3 Mammoth in CNC3 made perfect sense. It was a cheaper tank that was nearly as powerful as the Mk2. It has the two railguns, the missiles, the self-repair (however that's supposed to work 'in theme'). Given that the Mk2 was rare enough to impose an in-game limitation indicated it's production issues. It'd be more equivalent to a MARV.

I think the feeling of disjointedness between the CNCs is their weird change in tone. CNC1 was an attempt to be the late 90s, but with some crazy elements. CNC2 was a dystopian post-apocalyptic war, with heroes flying battlecruisers or burrowing tanks. CNC3 then suddenly felt like what we think the 2010s or 20s would be like, but with robots and laser beams. It was much more cheerful, since EVERYWHERE you fought in CNC2 was basically a Red Zone.

I think between C&C 1 and 2 it wasn't so bad because it felt like "okay, things could have progressed (regressed, whatever) to this state". But 3 didn't really seem to follow from 2, it was basically just "do whatever the fuck we want, and throw in a couple of callbacks so the fans are happy".

Me, I rather liked the atmosphere in Tiberian Sun, I thought they pulled off that style pretty well, and I was disappointed when 3 didn't seem to really build on it.

[Siege]

I loved Tiberian Sun, it had the whole 'ruined planet' vibe going on with the ion storms and crazy Tiberium fauna. Then in Tiberium Wars we're told that the infestation has reached "critical levels" but preciously little in the game indicate that this is the case. What we see of the red zones in that game didn't strike me as nearly as bad and fucked up as in Tiberian Sun.

[Prannon]

When I played CnC3, I was pleased that they spent more time creating a well weaved story to go with the game. Say what you will about the atmosphere, which granted wasn't quite so apocalyptic as Tiberian Sun. I certainly liked Tiberian Sun's atmosphere, even if it's story telling through the base game was a little...jumpy? Seriously, a lot of the missions seemed kind of episodic and all over the place until it was Final Battle Time. Something else I also appreciated about CnC3 was the better sense of scale it had. Cities were big. The threshold towers were BIG. The passing of long periods of time was indicated in a better fashion. As a long time fan of the CnC franchise since it's original days, I appreciated those services a lot.

However, I know that most of these were little things, especially when faced with more important issues like gameplay. I mean, for me the game was usually about spamming up huge numbers of units and then moving out in a Huge Hoard, overwhelming my opponent. Certainly not starcraft on the level of proper unit combinations. Then again, CnC never really had that kind of planning. These days, it really does seem more about the story than it does about groundbreaking game play, since a lot of the micro innovations incorporated in the games since Generals came after Starcraft, Warcraft, and other competing RTS games. Since I like the story, well...you get the idea.

[Darksider]

And now there's a trailer up.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

And now there's a trailer up.

well, it's nice to see the tacitus again... since it was pretty much ignored for 3...

wonder how the scrin will figure in... probably as primary antagonist... still deeply pessimistic though.

[SirNitram]

I loved Tiberian Sun, it had the whole 'ruined planet' vibe going on with the ion storms and crazy Tiberium fauna. Then in Tiberium Wars we're told that the infestation has reached "critical levels" but preciously little in the game indicate that this is the case. What we see of the red zones in that game didn't strike me as nearly as bad and fucked up as in Tiberian Sun.

Given what has been suggested would happen if the Amazon rainforest was not as full of trees as it is, and in T-3 the Red Zone there is a desert, I think the worldwide weather has reached 'not sustainable' as a source of fresh water.

[Genii Lodus]

Most of the places you actually went to in Tiberum Sun are ones that are red or yellow zones in CNC3 IIRC. The sonic reclamation tech they'd developed by CNC3 was still experimental but worked fairly well at preventing tiberium spreading allowing it to be harvested and areas to be reclaimed. Since the more Tiberium they harvest the more sonic reclamation thingums they can make you would expect after CNC3 some areas to be reclaimed. Though even if all the tiberium vanished overnight the ecological devastation it's caused already means humanity is still quite fucked.

[PREDATOR490]

Cant say the trailer inspired me much for what little it shows. The story element to CNC3 was actually well done and after playing it again along with recently acquiring the expansion the people in charge did deliver in that aspect. Unfortunatly they did not pay as much attention to gameplay and the expansion didnt add much at all.
I expect Legion will be making a return for the NOD side and the cliffhanger at the end of Kane's Wrath can be resolved. Hopefully they wont try and do another Cabal with it. As for GDI and NOD teaming up, I think it is beyond doubt a backstab is going to happen and NOD the likely candidate. If EA follows the routine they will make the game then follow up with a useless expansion that will add factions and minor additions.

Hopefully the game will be made PROPERLY for a balanced player base rather than EA's typical BS of making the game to service a particular feature. In CNC3 it was those stupid Battlecast idea of trying to turn the game into a watchable sport which inturn focussed the game into a fast paced game mentality. RA3 warped itself around the CO-OP feature.
This game apparantly wants to push mobile bases as the new feature and that does not bode well for anyone of the 'Turtle' menatlity since mobile bases reduces the focus on fixed postion defences even more than CNC3 did and more on the use of 'fast and fluid' unit deployment.

[Trogdor]

The story element to CNC3 was actually well done and after playing it again along with recently acquiring the expansion the people in charge did deliver in that aspect.

Can't see how you figure that, considering that C&C3 had Kane have this big, elaborate, mysterious plan in the game and then refused to reveal what the hell it actually was at the end. Thought they might reveal what the Scrin tower that Kane just had to have would be good for in the expansion, but nope, that whole thing was devoted to the big, elaborate, mysterious plan of Kane's involving the Tactitus and Legion, that also wasn't revealed at the end.

Hell, I don't know about you, but I always felt pretty sure that EA didn't ever actually have an evil plan for Kane, and they were just spewing enigmatic bullshit and telling themselves they'd figure out how to tie it all together in some game in the future. And judging from how they're saying C&C4 will be the final game, I guess they plan to do it in this one.

Maybe I'm wrong, and EA's writers have had a damn brilliant plot in mind all along, but I sure as hell won't be surprised if C&C4's attempts at pulling it together are a total mess, or even if they just spout more enigmatic bullshit and claim that resolves everything.

[Sea Skimmer]

I have never understood what this was supposed to add to the game, even in Starcraft. It just decreases the need to actually pay attention to the terrain and set up a defensible position. Not that this would've mattered in RA3 even if the bases hadn't been mobile, since two thirds of the units could swim, a good third of them could fly and impassable terrain was very rare.

I think they thought up the capability mainly to support background fluff about the Terrans being rugged mobile miners, and then justified actually coding it into the game just for that one Terran mission when you fly in a base and capture some Terran add on buildings. That it was irrelevant to 99.9% of multiplayer games didn’t matter.

As for C&C4, I couldn’t care less. C&C3 was god-awful, I could not get past the third mission I found it so irritating. Wasn't going to waste one second on RA3. Unless someone gets the message that the point of a command and conquered game is not just to be as cheesy as possible (at least, that's certainly not what I thought playing the first two games so long ago now) it will not be possible for them to turn out a really good product. I don’t see any signs that has changed.

I Fully expect to see a C&C5, and hell I wouldn’t be surprised if they come out with a C&C6 which is a pure Xbox360 Arcade game before the franchise is allowed to die.

[PainRack]

I won't mind a CNC4.
If they do either one of two things.
1. Introduce playable gameplay that isn't anything more than build, spam. That made sense back in the early nineties for Dune and C&C. We're in the 21st century now. Introduce some freaking TACTICS! Or if not, at least make it a REAL strategy game. But....... this is EA we're talking about.


2. Make it a good story, that's explored by gameplay. So, sure, the interface is tolerable, the tactics are build, spam, rush, grab resources....... but if they intergrate a good story that's actually explained/explored by gameplay, sure, I be happy with that. Think Dawn of War II.

The Intel was a good bit about CNC3 with regards to story, but the overall plot was soso.. Nod story was fucked up, but the Scrin and GDI was nice, even when the Scrin plot bordered on the fantastically stupid.

[PREDATOR490]

The story element to CNC3 was actually well done and after playing it again along with recently acquiring the expansion the people in charge did deliver in that aspect.

Can't see how you figure that, considering that C&C3 had Kane have this big, elaborate, mysterious plan in the game and then refused to reveal what the hell it actually was at the end. Thought they might reveal what the Scrin tower that Kane just had to have would be good for in the expansion, but nope, that whole thing was devoted to the big, elaborate, mysterious plan of Kane's involving the Tactitus and Legion, that also wasn't revealed at the end.

Hell, I don't know about you, but I always felt pretty sure that EA didn't ever actually have an evil plan for Kane, and they were just spewing enigmatic bullshit and telling themselves they'd figure out how to tie it all together in some game in the future. And judging from how they're saying C&C4 will be the final game, I guess they plan to do it in this one.

Maybe I'm wrong, and EA's writers have had a damn brilliant plot in mind all along, but I sure as hell won't be surprised if C&C4's attempts at pulling it together are a total mess, or even if they just spout more enigmatic bullshit and claim that resolves everything.

The direction of CNC 3 was well done. The actors, the environment and the general setting seemed appropriate for the most part. CNC3 actually felt like you were important to the campaign but not the ONLY one fighting. You are the 'commander' that does the bidding of the guys in charge and get told what you need to know thus not getting the full story makes sense.

I found the Scrin aspect of CNC3 more irritating than NOD due to the fact they essentially made a generic faction and introduced them as a major plot element with no backstory or anything. They fleshed out NOD and GDI with ample amounts of fluff which was provided for them in other games but their completely 'new' faction was left a complete unknown. This made sense when playing as GDI or NOD because they didnt know who the fuck the Scrin were but when you play the Scrin 'campaign' it STILL gives you nothing.

I think Kane's Wrath did a good job of indicating why the 'commander' is more appropriate as a AI / Machine than as a 'human' because an AI works better to the story development of the game. You simply win the battles and get occassional insights into whats going on but your just the 'lackey'. Additionally it flows with the time disparity across CNC by allowing you to be 'switched' off while the story jumps ahead several years and Legion makes a suitable counterpart to GDI's EVA.

Personnally, I think a great story would be for Legion and EVA to 'join forces' and become a combined AI interface against the Scrin / Tiberium threat. Naturally, Kane will attempt to backstab GDI later in the unified campaign and the player can choose wether to side with NOD or GDI. After that the campaign splits into the GDI side and the NOD side depending on the choice made. Eventually leading to the endgame conclusion with the chosen side winning. However, since this game will no doubt be boiled down to the most simplistic and generic elements possible and leave room for a sequel. I doubt EA would ever endorse ending the Tiberian saga with a modicum of dignity.

[darthdavid]

Micro isnt too bad but RA3 takes it to stupid levels with the amount of units and their special functions. I prefer my micro to be base related, not unit by fucking unit in a game which encourages large amounts of units on the battlefield. Special utility units, fair enough but not every single goddamn one to the point you can have 30 units and require to keep a check on each one and direct it's special abilities.

It would not be so bad if the special abilities had an element of auto-fire to them making things more dynamic than having the player do it all themselves. One of the things that Star Trek Armada managed to achieve ages ago so I see no excuse why every special must be orientated towards player control. If the Aircraft Carrier can fire a super missile, launch the fucking missile or if it can activate 'increase damage for X time' then do it. Although RA1 and CNC 1 did just fine WITHOUT each unit having super abilities which I find more appealing. That way it is simply Unit vs Unit balancing without having to include the whole dynamic of special powers that get frustrating to control or end up being niched to the point of uselessness.

CNC4 MIGHT be good if they choose to focus less on the eye candy fan service and more on the actual gameplay which does not revolve around stupid gimick features.
However, in light of the whole 'fluid' angle I can see this game being a repeat of CNC3s idea of fast paced 'spam' tactics mixed with 'micro' units and who wants to bet one of those micro units will be this 'mobile base feature' that the game bends over backwards to accomodate.

Fuck yeah. I cut my teeth on the Armada games and I've wondered why more games don't take that approach. Hell, I think you could even tell the units not to autofire if you wanted to micro. Right?

[Stark]

Whoa, are you saying the RTS genre has consistently ignored solutions to common problems? Who knewpossible!

[Teleros]

I doubt EA would ever endorse ending the Tiberian saga with a modicum of dignity.

End the Tiberium Saga? Don't be silly: after you save the Earth in C&C4, C&C5 onwards will have you fighting an interstellar war to defeat the Scrin once and for all, until you find that they were doing it to fight an even more serious threat...

Sounds about right for EA I think.

[Stark]

Don't be ridiculous; 'interstellar war' might require changing the formula. They'll just find a magic door that lets you use mammoth tanks IN SPACE on maps that are just like the old ones only PURPLE.

SPACE purple.