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Captain Lennox wrote:

Azeron wrote:Now people, Louis farakhan, has a point. Blacks suffered, and everyone who thinks they deserve the 100 acres and mule should get it (that is what the union promised).
one of the interesting facts is that the US federal gov owns approximately about 83% of the west (even more of alaska). Most is just workthless land that goes for about $5/acre. So the only thing we really have to pay for is a mule.

I think this is a real cheap opportunity to get rid of all the louise Farakhan welfare queens out of our cities and onto plantations where they can learn the value of hard work by being forced to make the land viable.

That wil free up lots of perfectly good housing projects to be torn down and something more useful put in its place. We might even turn a porfit from sales to developers

Sure let them have what they want, just make them keep it. Its about time people learned just how empty and vast America is even with 300 million people.

Then we can kiss this reperations thing good bye.

Well, thats real funny all that Property $.5 an Acre are Worthless Mountians too bad pople can't buld their. And it was 40 acres of farmland they promised not worthless mountains. But the Federal Promis left the Door when they shot Lincoln. My Ancestors weren't Slave Owners they were as in the Words of Senator Huey Long: "My Grandaddy was put in jail and then whent up north to fight some Rich Man's War."

And if they get Reperations I want Reperations from the United Kingdom for Deporting my People from astern Canada so they could take the land. Recently, some tried just to get an Apology we don't even get that from Elizabeth II. When they sent us to this Forsaken Swamp Land we tamed it and made the best of it. We don't talk to the Goverment about Reperations, no we made the best of it. Then, in the Early 1900s the Americans took away our Language and tried to break our Culture. Shouldn't we get Reperations if they do? No, the economy would be crushed. Answer, is they Get these Reperations everyone else should too, just another reaso why these repeartions are wrong.

If we are confining our remarks to the USA, then fair enough. Just for you Mr. Bean.

http://www.ricejournal.com

XPViking

If you pop open the map there...
Like soo
Notice the distinct problem?

Hmm thats three four states out of fifty? And guess what else is grown in all those none-shaded areas

Oh and guess how much of that land is owned by the same coperation

Only a fool stops at the first layer the wise man digs beneth least he be caught in a bone-headed mistake

Like for example if you looked a bit father and found that 64% of that land is worked by one of four coperations...
Never been content dig beneth the first layer

Mr. Bean. You are looking to prove something when all I did was show you a site just for information purposes. That's it. Or did you happen to miss the emoticon? Come on already.

XPViking

Find me someone who was ever a slave, and I'll vote in favor of giving him a-a-a-a-a-a-all the reparations he wants. 'Til then... well... it's just a bunch of people wanting something for nothing. Not that I blame 'em, of course... if I had a chance to make a few grand and all I had to do was complain about it loudly enough, I'd jump at the chance.

People often use for a varity of purposes, Generaly when you want to show some new starlting peace of information to the other side you

still my point stands

1) Mr Bean, such a small plot of land will not support anyone in the United States of America.

2)

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I consider it a great injustice that the Southern slave-owners made (in many cases, huge) wealth from the use of slave labour, and I see no ethical justification for the fact that their descendants inherit this dirty money free and clear. They can whine about it all they like, but it's still dirty money , and the idea of whole families still living comfortably off the spoils of slavery is deeply offensive. The wealth of these Southern plantations was simply obscene at its height.

You ma find this strange, but many of hose great plantations didn't make much money at all. And in any case, the actualy slavehodlers were a pretty small bunch, so we aren't talking about a large segment of society even at the height, and most slaveholders, in fact, owned only a few slaves, who more or less lived quite like the owner's family they lived with. Most slaves lived on plantaions, though, since he few big owners had a lot of them.

Furthermore, the actual wealth of the plantation system by and large evaporated after the Civil War. They had the land - sometimes, but often all equipment and money simply dried up. And remember, much of the paper wealth was in Cofederate script - which was rendered worthless.

Smiling Bandit wrote: Furthermore, the actual wealth of the plantation system by and large evaporated after the Civil War. They had the land - sometimes, but often all equipment and money simply dried up. And remember, much of the paper wealth was in Cofederate script - which was rendered worthless.

Hmm, Mr. Wong doesn't know how DEVASTATING the civil war was to
America....

Let's educate him, shall we?




Richmond, VA 1865


Cold Harbor, VA 1864


North Anna River, Va. Destroyed bridge of the
Richmond and Fredericksburg Railroad, 1864

Mr Bean, such a small plot of land will not support anyone in the United States of America.

Bandit I know that and I'm saying that, That 100 Acers will just screw em over in the end as its worthless land they now
Have to pay Taxs on

Heyyyy, I have an idea....

Every living slaveowner can be forced to pay every living slave reparations for their labor (Which means that Strom Thurmond is about the only person in this country who has a thing to worry about.)

If it goes through, I say that everyone in the USA with Irish ancestry comes forward and demands Irish reparations... I may not have been born when the "no Irish need apply" signs were up, but damn did they ever hurt me to hear about

Bandit,

Mr. Bean realizes that. In fact, he has already shown the minimum needed for a farm to be viable in the USA, depending upon the crop.

Mr Bean,

Fair enough. I only posted the article as a point of departure for further discussion, not to prove any new point. I suppose I should have been clearer.

XPViking

Darth Wong wrote: On the other hand, I compare these kinds of lawsuits and whines to the behaviour of my own visible minority, which is people of Asian descent. the first Asians to come to Canada were worked to death on the national railway, but I feel no urge to sue the government for reparations, and there are no individuals still living high off the proceeds from those actions.

The so-called "black community" spends too much fucking time whining about its victimhood and not enough time encouraging positive role models, academic achievement, and self-empowerment, which is a legitimate criticism of the lawsuit. Why don't they let it go? Why must there be a "black community" complete with leaders at all? You never see "Asian community leaders" ranting and raving on Capitol Hill, right?

And that leads to the next question: why do Asians have economic influence and respectability in modern society? Because we're lighter-skinned than blacks? Of course not. It's because Asian immigrants tend to push their kids to excel in school, and academic excellence is the springboard for success later in life. But when you look at so-called "black role models", they're invariably actors, athletes, or musicians: all shit from an academic standpoint. Black children are taught to look up to fucking retards who couldn't solve a differential equation to save their lives. Young black men who try hard in school are shunned by their peers, accused of being "Uncle Toms", and insulted for trying to "act like whitey". Fellow minorities (such as Asians) are hated by many in the black community and were viciously assaulted during the Rodney King riots. Such an environment does not and should not breed success.

So while there is a sense of justice in taking dirty money from the descendants of slave owners, I fear that this lawsuit is just a continuation of the "black community leaders"' platform of focusing black peoples' attention on finger-pointing rather than solutions. In a sense, these "leaders" are like union leaders; they have a vested interest in perpetuating hostility because without it, the "black community" will have no more use for them.

Not being Asian myself, I really can't say this quite so succinctly without getting flamed, but I 100% agree.

*EDIT* Oh, in addition, Asians seem to me to have "melted into the pot" far more successfully and completely than their African counterparts. I have several Asian friends, but they aren't Asian to me. They're just my friends, their parents are just my friends' parents, and they seem no different to me than any of my white friends. In all honesty, I can't say this about the Africans (or the latinos/chicanos/hispanics, but thats another rant).

MKSheppard wrote:Hmm, Mr. Wong doesn't know how DEVASTATING the civil war was to America....

Let's educate him, shall we?

Nice pictures, Shep. I see you intend to use them as the basis of a hasty generalization in which you assume that pictures of devastated towns mean the entire South was destroyed in the Civil War and not one shred of slave-owner money persisted.

How strange, then, that the South is still littered with the fabulously ornate (and perfectly intact) houses of fabulously wealthy slave-owners. Perhaps you will suggest that they were painstakingly rebuilt with non-slave-derived money after being blown to bits in the Civil War?

On the topic of the thread, I oppose such reparations because:

All the slaves are .

With all the blacks in America, reperations will cost hundreds of ibllions of dollars.

Slavery alone did not cause the highter poverty rates among blacks.

Darth Wong wrote:

MKSheppard wrote:Hmm, Mr. Wong doesn't know how DEVASTATING the civil war was to America....

Let's educate him, shall we?

Nice pictures, Shep. I see you intend to use them as the basis of a hasty generalization in which you assume that pictures of devastated towns mean the entire South was destroyed in the Civil War and not one shred of slave-owner money persisted.

How strange, then, that the South is still littered with the fabulously ornate (and perfectly intact) houses of fabulously wealthy slave-owners. Perhaps you will suggest that they were painstakingly rebuilt with non-slave-derived money after being blown to bits in the Civil War?

Shep's point is valid, even if he could have picked a better way of presenting it. Much of the slave money WAS wiped out in the war and immediately thereafter. A better picture would have been one that I have (not scanned, unfortunately) of bales of cotton sitting on a Charleston dock in 1863, going nowhere because the Union Navy was blockading the entire Confederate coast and England was buying cotton from Egypt anyway. The Confederate economy practically ceased to exist by 1865, so lots of people who never got within 500 miles of the actual fighting were wiped out anyway. Some planters did get through the war and reconstruction and stayed in business, but I can't imagine there are very many people left whose fortunes can be traced solely back to slave money or money made off slave money invested in other areas. 137 years is a long time for inherited money to sit around without ending up in the hands of someone who never had a thing to do with slavery.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:With all the blacks in America, reperations will cost hundreds of ibllions of dollars.

I disagree with government reparations. However, if some of that slave-owner money is still hanging around and can be traced to private owners, it should be confiscated IMO. I have little sympathy for people who live off fat inheritances anyway, particularly if it's dirty money. If there's none of that money left (as some are claiming), then the problem has already solved itself. In any case, that's the only morally legitimate claim the slave descendants might have.

Slavery alone did not cause the highter poverty rates among blacks.

Very true. I've already ranted about this before, so I won't repeat myself.

Hmmm 370,000 American White and black lives lost to free them from slavery and they want to get paid and so on. I think they did get paid: By August, 1865, the National debt, which was only about $80,000,000 in 1860, had reached $2,845,000,000 Hmm couple trillion dollars in 1860s money compared to our time, well I think they need to give reperations to the government.

Opening old wounds is never wise.

Priesto wrote:Opening old wounds is never wise.

A snappy one-liner is not a meaningful argument; you make no attempt whatsoever to explain why it is never wise, hence we are expected to accept the truth of this statement based solely on your personal authority; no thanks.

In any case, your little one-liner is the same thing the Swiss banks tried to say, while they continued to hoard stolen Jewish money dating back to the Holocaust.

I didn't post it to try and sound cool. But the whole thing is pointless, we live in a great country.Slavery ended long ago, and for blacks to want money is opening old wounds.We don't live in those times, and we don't need to discuss payback and such.Bitter actions are all I see, nothing more nothing less.

Priesto wrote:Bitter actions are all I see, nothing more nothing less.

Red herring. The questions of whether something is "just" and whether it is "bitter" are separate and completely different questions. It is possible to be quite bitter but still have a legitimate claim to justice.

What does everyone think about this idea? If reperations are paid out, then they should take the form of an educational scholorship or help single mothers with their daycare expenses. That is, the money would be funnelled into useful avenues rather than just a big wad of cash which could be quickly lost.

XPViking

reparations for <i>what?</i>. the people involved have been dead and dust for a hundred yrs.

Darth Wong wrote:

MKSheppard wrote:Hmm, Mr. Wong doesn't know how DEVASTATING the civil war was to America....

Let's educate him, shall we?

Nice pictures, Shep. I see you intend to use them as the basis of a hasty generalization in which you assume that pictures of devastated towns mean the entire South was destroyed in the Civil War and not one shred of slave-owner money persisted.

How strange, then, that the South is still littered with the fabulously ornate (and perfectly intact) houses of fabulously wealthy slave-owners. Perhaps you will suggest that they were painstakingly rebuilt with non-slave-derived money after being blown to bits in the Civil War?

Not, so true Mr. Wong. While the South does still some plantations they are very few in number compared to Antebellum years(Pre-Civil War) most were destroyed, such as in Sherman's March to the Sea, excellent Campaign, while some Generals did not burn them all. I have one in my town, the Union didn't burn it because the Family let them use it as an HQ. My point is, that most (atleast 75%) were destroyed and does that were left, well if they're money didn't evaporate with the Confederacy, had very little and were just a poor as the freed black. Ironic, yes?

This is a very difficult issue. I think I would have to say that I am undecided on it, for several reasons that all conflict. The first one is strictly legal.

Blacks often bring up the point about Japanese internment camp reparations as "proof" that they should get slave reparations. As a Japanese-American, I find that I must speak against this. The settlement reached by the Japanese-Americans and the government was nothing like the settlement blacks are seeking. The Japanese only received money for people who were still alive and who had physically lived in a camp. There are obviously no people left who lived in slavery within the United States (fortunately, slavery was abolished long ago). What the blacks are asking for is money for the descendents of slaves. This is in no way analogous to what the Japanese-Americans received. It is far more similar to what we do with Native Americans today, but even then, depending on the exact settlement requested, it is a flawed analogy. If this were to go through, it would be legally unprecedented.

Many blacks are very unhappy with their quality of life within the United States. Black people, on average, make less money and live in less afluent communities than most other ethnic groups. This is a fact. It is also a fact that, on average, the descendents of slaves do not enjoy many of the benefits that most other Americans do. For instance, they are less likely to have health insurance and are less likely to work in "white-collar" jobs. It is unclear whether these problems that they have are primarily due to on-going racism or to their inability to break out of economic cycles established when their ancestors were emancipated. This makes me want to give them a settlement, however they also enjoy a FAR higher quality of life than most of the people living in Africa. As Muhammad Ali said "Thank God my ancestors came here on the boat." Obviously, this does not justify slavery. Slavery was clearly a terrible institution, but at the same time it shows that some good can come from evil. It should be considered when a decision is finally reached.

Finally, unfortunate as it is, slavery has existed in every culture since the dawn of time, and while Europeans may have perpetuated the institution through the slave trade (and, indeed, widened it to an unprecedented scale), Europeans and Americans are also the only society to attempt to ban slavery worldwide. They have not managed to do so, yet. There is still slavery in the world, but progress has been made. I kind of feel that this request for reparations would really be punishing America and Europe for attempting to ban slavery (otherwise, the lawsuit could not work because the people would STILL be slaves), and I am not sure that that is the right message to send. This is a complicated issue, and as I said, I am not sure that I am ready to make a decision on it just yet. Those are a few of the facts, as I see them, but I see no obvious way to form a decision out of the contradictory evidence.

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan told the crowd. "We cannot settle for some little jive token. We need millions of acres of land that black people can build."

Snowballs chance in hell of that. Haha, i can imagine how long that country would last, theyd prob get some crappy in the middle of nowhere country, and as a nice bonus, itd be surrounded by the rest of the continental US, of which a good portion would be hostile to it. It took a good deal of time to get the 13 colonies to cooperate, and look what alot of countries in Africa degenerated into after the europeans left...besides, would anyone actually move to that guys country?