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Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 11:19am
by Raesene
Ma Deuce wrote:Thanas wrote:I'm not sure why you have steam turbines and electric motors listed.
Because turbo-electric drive has in fact been used on capital ships. The US Navy used it on the Tennessee and Colorado class battleships, as well as the Lexington-class battlecruisers/carriers. The unbuilt South Dakota class battleships also used it, so it seems likely the USN would have continued using the setup had it not been for the WNT. The disadvantage of the system is that it weighs somewhat more than a conventional turbine setup, (which is probably why it was not used on the later treaty battleships), but the advantage is the machinery arrangement is more compact and flexible, allowing better underwater compartmentation, and more hull volume to be devoted to the torpedo defense system. Other advantages include the ability to switch the propellers from forward to reverse far more rapidly, and to run them in reverse at maximum power. Unfortunately, Springsharp doesn't actually sim the weight/volume differences; not yet anyway.
Should have phrased that better (was me, not Thanas).
I didn't check the manual, but I think you can omit the steam turbines when using turboelectric in springsharp, otherwise you'll design the ship with two (redundant) drive systems, adding unnecessary weight. If I recall correctly, the system uses weight / hp based on design year, so any subsystems should be included in the total already.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 11:23am
by Norade
You're right about the boilers, cutting them saved a ton of weight. Cutting them gave me 18" Torpedo bulges.
HMS Giant, Canadian Battleship laid down 1923 (Engine 1924)
Displacement:
42,896 t light; 45,440 t standard; 47,002 t normal; 48,252 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(848.96 ft / 820.21 ft) x 101.71 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (37.73 / 38.52 ft)
(258.76 m / 250.00 m) x 31.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (11.50 / 11.74 m)
Armament:
9 - 15.50" / 394 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1,971.12lbs / 894.09kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft evenly spread
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides amidships
6 raised mounts
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,519 lbs / 8,854 kg
4 - 24.5" / 622 mm, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m torpedoes - 1.340 t each, 5.358 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 535.13 ft / 163.11 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 285.06 ft / 86.89 m 12.10 ft / 3.69 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
6.00" / 152 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 33.94 ft / 10.34 m
- Hull Bulges:
18.0" / 457 mm 535.13 ft / 163.11 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm -
- Box over machinery & magazines: 5.00" / 127 mm
Forecastle: 5.00" / 127 mm Quarter deck: 5.00" / 127 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, ERROR: no steam engines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 175,578 shp / 130,981 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,812 tons (75% coal)
Complement:
1,595 - 2,074
Cost:
£10.195 million / $40.781 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,474 tons, 9.5 %
- Guns: 4,469 tons, 9.5 %
- Torpedoes: 5 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 20,903 tons, 44.5 %
- Belts: 6,134 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,708 tons, 7.9 %
- Bulges: 5,346 tons, 12.9 %
- Armament: 3,743 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,551 tons, 3.3 %
- Conning Tower: 421 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,439 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,107 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull below water: 80 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
118,671 lbs / 53,828 Kg = 63.7 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 31.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 18.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.96
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.491 / 0.494
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 50.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.7 %
Waterplane Area: 55,130 Square feet or 5,122 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1,069 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.05
- Overall: 0.99
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 11:31am
by Raesene
Norade wrote:You're right about the boilers, cutting them saved a ton of weight. Cutting them gave me 18" Torpedo bulges.
Still not a lot, the British 'Royal Sovereign' cass got bulges nearly 7' (about 2 meters), increasing width from 88' (27m) to 102' (31m).
These add-ons to your hull should keep the blast of an exploding torpedo as far away from your hull and torpedo bulkhead as possible. 18'' is definitely not enough for that.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 11:39am
by Norade
Ah, well then, that can go to extra armor then. What do you think of the rest now?
I changed my armored deck to a full 6" multi-deck covering, and thickened up the main belt and torpedo bulkheads.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 12:14pm
by Ma Deuce
Raesene wrote:Should have phrased that better (was me, not Thanas).
Ooh, sorry 'bout that. Not sure how that happened.
I didn't check the manual, but I think you can omit the steam turbines when using turboelectric in springsharp, otherwise you'll design the ship with two (redundant) drive systems, adding unnecessary weight. If I recall correctly, the system uses weight / hp based on design year, so any subsystems should be included in the total already.
I'm not sure about the earlier versions of Springsharp because I haven't used them in a while, but in 3.0b3, if you're using steam boilers as a power source, you MUST specify both a type of steam engine and a shaft drive, or you will get an error message. The only power sources that allow you to omit the steam engine are petrol, diesel, and/or batteries, and if you are using one or a combination of those exclusively, then the steam engine boxes will be grayed out anyway. Regardless, in 3.0b3, the weight and volume for turbines + electric motors are simmed as being EXACTLY the same as turbines + geared drives. Omitting the turbines from a steam powered, electrically driven ship would make the electric powerplant significantly
lighter than a geared drive, which makes even less sense than being the same (the error message notwithstanding). I'd also think you'd need to specify whether those electric motors are driven by turbines or reciprocating engines.
However, despite being stable and superior to earlier versions in just about every way, springsharp 3b3 is still a beta, and there are certain features which are non-functional (such as the performance/endurance slider in the engine tab). Hopefully turboelectric drive will be properly simmed in the 3.0 final release.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 12:21pm
by Norade
I'm fiddling about with 3b2a right now, what changed from 2 to 3?
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 12:21pm
by Thanas
So...what about ships strength? Does it have to be 1.00 or is 0.98-9 now acceptable?
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 12:36pm
by Bluewolf
Hypothetical Ship Desgin, Idealand Battlecruiser laid down 1925
Displacement:
25,993 t light; 28,025 t standard; 29,976 t normal; 31,537 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
690.00 ft / 690.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 26.90 ft (normal load)
210.31 m / 210.31 m x 28.96 m x 8.20 m
Armament:
6 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,098.50lbs / 498.27kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (5x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
24 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns (6x4 guns), 171.50lbs / 77.79kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
60 - 2.01" / 51.0 mm guns (10x6 guns), 4.05lbs / 1.84kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
40 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15,960 lbs / 7,239 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.5" / 318 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 11.70 ft / 3.57 m
Ends: 4.50" / 114 mm 241.48 ft / 73.60 m 11.70 ft / 3.57 m
Upper: 4.50" / 114 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.40" / 112 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 25.31 ft / 7.71 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
4th: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
5th: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 87,021 shp / 64,918 Kw = 27.02 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,513 tons (10% coal)
Complement:
1,138 - 1,480
Cost:
£9.768 million / $39.073 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,995 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 10,031 tons, 33.5 %
- Belts: 3,997 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,848 tons, 6.2 %
- Armament: 1,434 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,648 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,851 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,116 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,983 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,379 lbs / 16,501 Kg = 33.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.89 ft / 8.81 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Stern: 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Average freeboard: 19.23 ft / 5.86 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.9 %
Waterplane Area: 47,719 Square feet or 4,433 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 839 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Same question as before. How can I improve this ship?
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:01pm
by Ma Deuce
Thanas wrote:So...what about ships strength? Does it have to be 1.00 or is 0.98-9 now acceptable?
I should think so. Some battleship designs were actually overloaded even in original configuration, but went on to have long service lives: However, the usual effect of slightly overloading ships that large is that they just sit lower in the water than intended (the QEs were a good example of this). For larger ships that really were overstressed by real-world standards we can look at the Japanese heavy cruisers, a fact also reflected in springsharp (I can't get a Takao or post-refit Mogami any better than .90 or so in SS). While not quite comparable to BBs, it should still be noted that most still carried their loads without severe problems, not to mention proved to be formidable opponents. The only exception of course was the Mogamis as built, which were dangerously unstable and suffered popped hull welds and turrets jammed in train during firing trails; this was fixed by bulging and structural reinforcement, which still left them overstressed by other navies standards, though no worse than other Japanese cruisers which suffered no such problems.
Norade wrote:I'm fiddling about with 3b2a right now, what changed from 2 to 3?
Mainly the interface, which has a much better layout. Functionally, it's virtually the same: I just checked the fuel/engine/drive checkboxes in 3b2 and they work exactly the same as in 3b3, so what I said above still applies. There are one or two new features in 3b3, one of which allows you to lock the freeboard to the draft, so if you change the latter, it will automatically change the former by the same amount. This is a good way to sim slight overloading on larger ships without getting a stress warning.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:12pm
by Raesene
Ma Deuce wrote: [...]
Thanks for the clarification, seems you read the manual
It's bad news for Norade, though.
Bluewolf wrote:
I would like to ask if this ship design is any better. I'd also like to ask what armor I should apply to make it take more hits and why its so cramped, storage wise.
Delete the 9'' - they most likely complicate your internal arrangement and give you no benefit.
Secondary batteries that can't be manually loaded (the limit can be set at about 7.5''/19 cm; and those only with difficulties - 6''/15cm were chosen because they could be manually loaded relatively quickly) are out of favour after Dreadnought (1905). A good main battery of 14'' and above with at least six to eight guns were state of the art after World War I.
Thanas wrote:So...what about ships strength? Does it have to be 1.00 or is 0.98-9 now acceptable?
I think Navalism and Wesworlds accept ship strengths below 1 only for destroyers and torpedo boats, as the model breaks down for such sims.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:15pm
by Karmic Knight
Workman's Hammer, Union of the Low Countries Battleship laid down 1924
Displacement:
60,037 t light; 66,053 t standard; 73,724 t normal; 79,862 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,156.58 ft / 1,148.29 ft) x 132.81 ft x (30.00 / 31.99 ft)
(352.53 m / 350.00 m) x 40.48 m x (9.14 / 9.75 m)
Armament:
50 - 5.91" / 150 mm 75.0 cal guns - 116.50lbs / 52.84kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
25 x Single mounts on sides amidships
7 raised mounts
7 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
25 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
7 double raised mounts
7 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
70 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 10.55lbs / 4.79kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
35 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
35 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 double raised mounts
10 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
40 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
10 x 4 row quad mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
40 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
20 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
10 raised mounts - superfiring
20 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
10 double raised mounts - superfiring
60 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 10,500 per gun
Machine guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model
30 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
30 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 double raised mounts
10 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 8,464 lbs / 3,839 kg
5 - 12.9" / 328 mm, 42.38 ft / 12.92 m torpedoes - 1.084 t each, 5.421 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 498.43 ft / 151.92 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm 496.52 ft / 151.34 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
153.35 ft / 46.74 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.72" / 120 mm 496.52 ft / 151.34 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Hull Bulges:
153.5" / 3,900 mm 32.81 ft / 10.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.20" / 5 mm 0.08" / 2 mm 0.12" / 3 mm
2nd: 0.12" / 3 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - 0.16" / 4 mm
4th: 0.20" / 5 mm - 0.16" / 4 mm
5th: 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.08" / 2 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.08" / 2 mm Quarter deck: 0.08" / 2 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.16" / 4 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Petrol Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 245,599 shp / 183,217 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 13,809 tons
Complement:
2,236 - 2,908
Cost:
£13.593 million / $54.373 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,351 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 3,346 tons, 4.5 %
- Torpedoes: 5 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 22,243 tons, 30.2 %
- Belts: 15,115 tons, 20.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 627 tons, 0.9 %
- Bulges: 6,115 tons, 9.9 %
- Armament: 222 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 158 tons, 0.2 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 8,090 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 26,046 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13,688 tons, 18.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 307 tons, 0.4 %
- Hull below water: 99 tons
- Hull void weights: 99 tons
- Hull above water: 99 tons
- Above deck: 9 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
215,818 lbs / 97,894 Kg = 2,095.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 28.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
Metacentric height 16.0 ft / 4.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.564 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.00 ft / 9.14 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Average freeboard: 38.45 ft / 11.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 366.7 %
Waterplane Area: 107,838 Square feet or 10,018 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 899 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
My First attempt at the new Union flagship I am going to have laid down just before the game starts, opinions?
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:20pm
by Thanas
WOW. That is a full 13.724 tons over the limit. Limit is 60kt, remember?
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:23pm
by Karmic Knight
Thanas wrote:WOW. That is a full 13.724 tons over the limit. Limit is 60kt, remember?
The limit would hold after the start of the game? I thought that was for existing naval ships when we began.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:24pm
by Raesene
Karmic Knight wrote:Workman's Hammer, Union of the Low Countries Battleship laid down 1924
Displacement:
60,037 t light; 66,053 t standard; 73,724 t normal; 79,862 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,156.58 ft / 1,148.29 ft) x 132.81 ft x (30.00 / 31.99 ft)
(352.53 m / 350.00 m) x 40.48 m x (9.14 / 9.75 m)
Armament:
50 - 5.91" / 150 mm 75.0 cal guns - 116.50lbs / 52.84kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
25 x Single mounts on sides amidships
7 raised mounts
7 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
25 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
7 double raised mounts
7 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
70 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 10.55lbs / 4.79kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
35 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
35 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 double raised mounts
10 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
40 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
10 x 4 row quad mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
40 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
20 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
10 raised mounts - superfiring
20 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
10 double raised mounts - superfiring
60 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 10,500 per gun
Machine guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model
30 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
30 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 double raised mounts
10 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 8,464 lbs / 3,839 kg
5 - 12.9" / 328 mm, 42.38 ft / 12.92 m torpedoes - 1.084 t each, 5.421 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 498.43 ft / 151.92 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm 496.52 ft / 151.34 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
153.35 ft / 46.74 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.72" / 120 mm 496.52 ft / 151.34 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Hull Bulges:
153.5" / 3,900 mm 32.81 ft / 10.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.20" / 5 mm 0.08" / 2 mm 0.12" / 3 mm
2nd: 0.12" / 3 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - 0.16" / 4 mm
4th: 0.20" / 5 mm - 0.16" / 4 mm
5th: 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.08" / 2 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.08" / 2 mm Quarter deck: 0.08" / 2 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.16" / 4 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Petrol Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 245,599 shp / 183,217 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 13,809 tons
Complement:
2,236 - 2,908
Cost:
£13.593 million / $54.373 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,351 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 3,346 tons, 4.5 %
- Torpedoes: 5 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 22,243 tons, 30.2 %
- Belts: 15,115 tons, 20.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 627 tons, 0.9 %
- Bulges: 6,115 tons, 9.9 %
- Armament: 222 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 158 tons, 0.2 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 8,090 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 26,046 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13,688 tons, 18.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 307 tons, 0.4 %
- Hull below water: 99 tons
- Hull void weights: 99 tons
- Hull above water: 99 tons
- Above deck: 9 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
215,818 lbs / 97,894 Kg = 2,095.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 28.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
Metacentric height 16.0 ft / 4.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.564 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.00 ft / 9.14 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Average freeboard: 38.45 ft / 11.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 366.7 %
Waterplane Area: 107,838 Square feet or 10,018 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 899 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
My First attempt at the new Union flagship I am going to have laid down just before the game starts, opinions?
Sorry, but it's a waste of shipping steel - what are you planning to do with 50 15 cm guns on a ship the size of a modern aircraft carrier ? This ship is bigger than the Japanese Yamato, and she was armed with 9 46cm guns and heaily armoured.
Anything better than a light cruiser will tear your ship apart - your guns have a lower range than the typical 8'' of a heavy cruiser (of our timeline), and the toal lack of armour (5mm ? I think normal shipbuilding steel is thicker thant that) makes it vulnerable to about anything that can be fired at it.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:30pm
by Thanas
Karmic Knight wrote:Thanas wrote:WOW. That is a full 13.724 tons over the limit. Limit is 60kt, remember?
The limit would hold after the start of the game? I thought that was for existing naval ships when we began.
No, existing ships may not be larger than 50kt, new ships may not be larger than 60kt iirc.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:44pm
by Thanas
Also, not having any armored turrets at all is just begging for the ship to blow up. I mean, do you like your gun crews roasted by even destroyer fire?
EDIT: Seriously, do you love magazine explosions? Because if your turrets have less than an inch of armour plating on them...bye, bye, ship.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:50pm
by Steve
To think I've been rigorously avoiding any composite strength under 1.00.
Actually, my next dreadnought may be intentionally between .9 and .99 to reflect a design with flaws. May also go with a longer 12 incher that would wear out too quickly due to inferior barrel materials.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:52pm
by Bluewolf
OK, Second attempt:
Hypothetical Ship Desgin, Idealand Battlecruiser laid down 1925
Displacement:
26,042 t light; 28,025 t standard; 29,976 t normal; 31,537 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
690.00 ft / 690.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 26.90 ft (normal load)
210.31 m / 210.31 m x 28.96 m x 8.20 m
Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
24 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x4 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
60 - 2.01" / 51.0 mm guns (10x6 guns), 4.05lbs / 1.84kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
40 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 13,293 lbs / 6,029 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 11.70 ft / 3.57 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 241.48 ft / 73.60 m 11.70 ft / 3.57 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.60" / 117 mm 448.50 ft / 136.70 m 25.31 ft / 7.71 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 90,163 shp / 67,262 Kw = 27.26 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,513 tons (10% coal)
Complement:
1,138 - 1,480
Cost:
£8.904 million / $35.617 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,662 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 10,025 tons, 33.4 %
- Belts: 3,890 tons, 13.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,932 tons, 6.4 %
- Armament: 1,009 tons, 3.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3,090 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,954 tons, 9.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,201 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,934 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,374 lbs / 17,860 Kg = 28.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.89 ft / 8.81 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Stern: 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Average freeboard: 19.23 ft / 5.86 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.9 %
Waterplane Area: 47,719 Square feet or 4,433 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 846 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Have I done any better? I moved some stuff around a little and changed some things. I would like to get seaboat quality to 1.5 but I am not sure how. I want to be able to take harsh weather with i.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:58pm
by Norseman
No one seems to comment on my designs, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing...
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 01:59pm
by K. A. Pital
As for me, I just took the Russian dreadnaughts and pre-dreadnaughts with all their relative flaws (many Russian dreadnaughts and pre-dreadnaugts alike were obsolete at the date of construction), but with the caveat of finishing the Izmail series of 4 x ~30,000 ton dreadnaught battlecruisers which had quite a bit of firepower to boot. All pre-dreadnaughts will be the more expendable naval stock and useful for gunboat diplomacy against weaker nations, so I'm not retiring even the earliest pre-dreadnaughts I have in service.
As IRL, they will serve as "dispatch ships" and communications vessels, or for show of flag.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 02:18pm
by Raesene
For those who want details, I'd recommend
this website.
It has data, pictures and histories of the cruisers and battleships used during WWII and before.
A few example ships designed in the 1920/30 (links only to Wiki)
British G3-class battlecruiser
fast (more than 30 kts, well armoured and good firepower (9x 16'')
British N3 battleships
the battleship counterpart to G3, slower (about 23 kts)m but better armoured and with 9 18''/45,6 cm guns.
Panzerschiff Deutschland, a superheavy cruiser, in theory faster than stronger and stronger than faster ships; the design might not be applicable in SDN World3 because the restriction treaties were not signed. The concept, however, could be interesting...
For carriers,
the Japanese Hiryu, the USN's
Yorktown class, the RN's
Ark Royal or the planned French
Joffre-class. I did not include the conversions (Lexington, Akagi, Outrag.. eh Courageous) because without the treaty, they'd become/stay battleships (probably except the latter
).
French heavy cruiser Algerie, well armoured for its time, 8 x 8'' guns, and 30+kts speed
USS New Orleans, the USN's contemporary to Algerie.
British Town-class, built to escort the battlefleet and watch the trade lanes against raiders. A famous example for the latest version is the museum ship
HMS Belfast
for destroyers, examples include the french
Fantasque, the USN's
Mahan-class or the RN's
Tribal class, of which
HMCS Haida is a modified example.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 02:21pm
by Steve
I'll note now that no dedicated, purpose-built fleet carriers are permitted, only small ones like Japan's Hosho. Historically none of them were even laid until after 1930. Even without a Washington Treaty or London Treaties to restrict carriers I won't permit any before 1930, maybe 1928 if I hear a good argument. And you'd better have converted some cruiser or battleship hulls....
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 02:25pm
by Raesene
Norseman wrote:Now to those Socialist Brother States who worry about only having Naval Focus 2 I offer to you a design by Brazil's finest engineers, specifically made for export purposes etc, etc. It's not the fastest ship around (22.5 knots) and not the longest ranged (6000 nautical miles) however if you are looking for a cheap and quick to go battleship this one isn't that bad. It certainly is a very good seaboat if you worry about the occasional storm or bad weather.
Code: Select all
International Solidarity, FSR of Brazil Battleship laid down 1920
Displacement:
27,048 t light; 28,579 t standard; 30,011 t normal; 31,155 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
665.21 ft / 650.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
202.75 m / 198.12 m x 28.96 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1906 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,516 lbs / 7,491 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
2 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 630.00 ft / 192.02 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: - - 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 44,338 shp / 33,076 Kw = 22.62 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,576 tons
Complement:
1,139 - 1,482
Cost:
£6.850 million / $27.398 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,064 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 11,776 tons, 39.2 %
- Belts: 3,436 tons, 11.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,748 tons, 5.8 %
- Armament: 2,250 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,050 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 291 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,550 tons, 5.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,658 tons, 38.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,962 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,015 lbs / 18,151 Kg = 23.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.567
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.84 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.04 ft / 8.55 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 17.85 ft / 5.44 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 17.85 ft / 5.44 m
- Stern: 17.85 ft / 5.44 m
- Average freeboard: 19.35 ft / 5.90 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.6 %
Waterplane Area: 43,788 Square feet or 4,068 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 190 lbs/sq ft or 930 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Do you really want to give away your best as an export vessel
?
It looks fine for me, I'd just make the main belt longer - it doesn't fully cover magazines and engineering space, that's a serious weakness.
The 40mm quick-firing guns are very small and could be deleted without loss. A few (about four would be appropriate for the 1920s) anti-aircraft guns of 3-4'' would be good to add instead.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 02:26pm
by Shinn Langley Soryu
For your consideration, the SAU battlecruiser UNS
Libertad:
Code: Select all
UNS Libertad, Southeast Asian Union battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1925)
Displacement:
29,007 t light; 30,728 t standard; 32,680 t normal; 34,242 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
711.82 ft / 704.00 ft x 92.00 ft (Bulges 101.80 ft) x 28.50 ft (normal load)
216.96 m / 214.58 m x 28.04 m (Bulges 31.03 m) x 8.69 m
Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1915 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 54.00lbs / 24.49kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 54.00lbs / 24.49kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
108 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 96 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 12,523 lbs / 5,680 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 457.60 ft / 139.48 m 11.51 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 246.38 ft / 75.10 m 11.51 ft / 3.51 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 457.60 ft / 139.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
9.00" / 229 mm 457.60 ft / 139.48 m 25.33 ft / 7.72 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: - - 10.0" / 254 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 103,941 shp / 77,540 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,513 tons
Complement:
1,214 - 1,579
Cost:
£4.073 million / $16.294 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,563 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 12,169 tons, 37.2 %
- Belts: 3,600 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,860 tons, 11.8 %
- Armament: 1,956 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,532 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,375 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,850 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,674 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,886 lbs / 19,453 Kg = 31.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 8.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.53 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.19 ft / 8.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.57 ft / 5.66 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.57 ft / 5.66 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.57 ft / 5.66 m
- Stern: 18.57 ft / 5.66 m
- Average freeboard: 19.42 ft / 5.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.9 %
Waterplane Area: 45,627 Square feet or 4,239 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.09
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Additional notes:
Miscellaneous weight reserved for floatplanes
Ships of class:
- UNS Libertad
- UNS Justicia
- UNS Testamento
- UNS Providencia
I'm obviously not a naval architect, so I'm pretty sure I got some things wrong with the design. Also, the weaponry is very much anachronistic.
Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread
Posted: 2009-10-24 02:46pm
by Norseman
Raesene wrote:Do you really want to give away your best as an export vessel
?
My best are somewhat larger, IC this is for smaller nations who want something to defend their coastline. OOC this is what we would help Naval Focus 2 nations to build, or we could say that we sold it to them. Since it's a solid design which isn't obsolete even in 1925 it should work out nicely.
Raesene wrote:It looks fine for me, I'd just make the main belt longer - it doesn't fully cover magazines and engineering space, that's a serious weakness.
Gah! That was five feet I didn't notice earlier on, that's fixed now.
Raesene wrote:The 40mm quick-firing guns are very small and could be deleted without loss. A few (about four would be appropriate for the 1920s) anti-aircraft guns of 3-4'' would be good to add instead.
I might do that yes.