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R2 already possesses all the vocabulary data and grammatical logic required to generate speech, as evidenced by his ability to understand it and even formulate text responses in ordinary language. Since he can generate text, he literally doesn't need anything more than a speaker and a little bit of text-to-speech software.

It can accept audible input in either Binary or Basic, but generates audible output exclusively in Binary despite being expected to work with beings that primarily speak Basic. This is not good design, no matter how you slice it.

DudeGuyMan wrote:R2 already possesses all the vocabulary data and grammatical logic required to generate speech, as evidenced by his ability to understand it and even formulate text responses in ordinary language. Since he can generate text, he literally doesn't need anything more than a speaker and a little bit of text-to-speech software.

Wow if you think all you need is a different speaker I'm not sure what else I can say here. The other processing hardware you'd need for this, combined with a slightly more advanced speaker to handle the range of sounds(as opposed to the 5 or 6 beeps, relatively speaking) would take just slightly more space than it currently does in R2. You probably make a pretty decent case that he's got room for it, especially 'modern' technology, given he was able to hold onto Luke's lightsaber. But then he probably won't after be able to after the hardware is in there, thus derailing the story in episode 6.

This is forgetting that the entire R series line is marketed as an astromech droid that you attach externally to ships while in vacuum. Whatever else they're used for, that is what they're marketed for, thus their is no reason to put that hardware in them from an economic standpoint. By all means modify your droid if you wish, but that's a totally different issue.

Gaidin wrote:The other processing hardware you'd need for this

What hardware? Even a dumbass current-day PC can turn text into speech with a small piece of software.

combined with a slightly more advanced speaker to handle the range of sounds(as opposed to the 5 or 6 beeps, relatively speaking) would take just slightly more space than it currently does in R2.

It has a speech-quality speaker, or else it wouldn't be able to play back recorded messages with audio. If you want to argue that this speaker is isolated from the droid's main output then fine, but since we're arguing over whether it's stupidly designed or not you should probably have a good reason for that.

You probably make a pretty decent case that he's got room for it, especially 'modern' technology, given he was able to hold onto Luke's lightsaber. But then he probably won't after be able to after the hardware is in there, thus derailing the story in episode 6.

I'm pretty sure lightsaber storage is way further from it's intended design purpose than anything I've been talking about.

This is forgetting that the entire R series line is marketed as an astromech droid that you attach externally to ships while in vacuum.

The R2-AG-series agromech droid was a line of agromech droids produced by Industrial Automaton that saw moderate popularity in the years prior to the start of the Clone Wars.

The Intellex V housed an impressive database with detailed specifications on every vessel in the Republic Navy, and could be readily programmed with additional ship specifications easily. Armed with this information, the R3 worked in cooperation with gunnery crews, security troopers, and naval chiefs of operation aboard capital-scale warships.

The R4-series agromech droid was a highly successful attempt to capture a new market prospect—the Outer Rim urbanite who were more likely have a souped-up landspeeder parked in their garage than an X-wing. Accordingly, the R4 agromech droid was designed for life outside the pristine hangar bay. [...] The R4 was unsuited to the task of starfighter astromech.

There's even a link that states astromechs were incapable of even generating text on their own and required specialized shipboard hardware in order to not be utterly useless. That's FLAGRANTLY idiotic, but since the sole source is some discontinued card game from ten years ago, I'll let it slide.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Gaidin wrote:The other processing hardware you'd need for this

What hardware? Even a dumbass current-day PC can turn text into speech with a small piece of software.

It has a speech-quality speaker, or else it wouldn't be able to play back recorded messages with audio. If you want to argue that this speaker is isolated from the droid's main output then fine, but since we're arguing over whether it's stupidly designed or not you should probably have a good reason for that.

Conceded. The video messages slipped my mind and I'd forgotten he had all the hardware in there anyway.

The R2-AG-series agromech droid was a line of agromech droids produced by Industrial Automaton that saw moderate popularity in the years prior to the start of the Clone Wars.

The Intellex V housed an impressive database with detailed specifications on every vessel in the Republic Navy, and could be readily programmed with additional ship specifications easily. Armed with this information, the R3 worked in cooperation with gunnery crews, security troopers, and naval chiefs of operation aboard capital-scale warships.

The R4-series agromech droid was a highly successful attempt to capture a new market prospect—the Outer Rim urbanite who were more likely have a souped-up landspeeder parked in their garage than an X-wing. Accordingly, the R4 agromech droid was designed for life outside the pristine hangar bay. [...] The R4 was unsuited to the task of starfighter astromech.

Well the R2 series is before the time of mass use. As for the others, they all beg the question of whether the society cared enough to think they needed that kind of upgrade. We're down to personal taste(granted at a societal level) at this point. While yes, with a computer that has that sort of speech capability I'd love for it to have that capability by default, it just never came up with them. We can go into capabilities of the series all day at this point, but that's hardly what matters anymore. I guess we're past the point of 'why didn't they do this?' and on to 'wow they're stupid!' ? Unless we want to go into the intelligence of the droids and if they speak they just prefer the beeps and bloops anyway. Who knows.

Clearly in-universe the users were happy enough with their non-talking droids, but that's just the nature of the beast. Lots of sci-fi series feature technology that seems poorly or oddly designed, but which nobody in-universe seems to question. Doesn't stop out-of-universe arguments over mechs versus tanks, or touchscreens versus joysticks, or what have you.

Props for finding a different line of argument, but I don't believe one can really argue that being able to speak the dominant language of the galaxy wouldn't be a desirable feature for a droid. Especially when 99% of the required hardware/software already appears to be present.

DudeGuyMan wrote:Clearly in-universe the users were happy enough with their non-talking droids, but that's just the nature of the beast. Lots of sci-fi series feature technology that seems poorly or oddly designed, but which nobody in-universe seems to question. Doesn't stop out-of-universe arguments over mechs versus tanks, or touchscreens versus joysticks, or what have you.

Well, in defense of mechs versus tanks, that one comes up the most in Command and Conquer, a series that seems to want to switch back and forth every other game(not that games are consistent anyway). Most universes that are fairly well thought out, or at least expanded on consistently, at least stick with that one type, and whether one's better than the other doesn't matter once you're inside the fourth wall just because the questions never come up between characters.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Havok wrote:He doesn't. That is the fucking point. Astromechs have a job, they do it and that is that.

Seriously, have you never had to give anyone instructions? User error alone is a good enough reason to let them talk. Instructions received might be illogical, redundant, or just plain unfeasible.

This isn't a fucking kid just out of mechanics school nimrod. What user error are you expecting from an advanced computer AI? As for user input being illogical or redundant etc... what the fuck does that have to do with R2 not being able to talk. That is operator error. If I tell an R2 unit to put a door on a tree, that is what it is going to do, because I am it's master and it is my slave.

Hey I just yelled over at that droid to abandon it's current task and begin another, but all it's doing is jabbering at me in droidspeak. Does that mean another unit is already working on the new task? Does it mean the new task can't be completed for some reason? What reason could it possibly mean? Are we lacking materials? Is something damaged beyond repair?
Hell if I know! All it's saying is beep-boop, let me stop whatever I may be doing to pull out my datapad, or walk over to a monitor, or call a second droid over to play translator for the first droid! Oh yeah, have I mentioned someone is shooting at the ship this whole time? No hurry!

See my above response. If you tell it to do something it will do it. I don't know why you have the fucking retarded idea that every droid is like R2. They do what you tell them to do. That is it. If you yell at it to stop what it is doing, it will stop what it is doing.

Take The Phantom Menace for example. Remember the part where they had to tell the Astromechs how to fix the damaged shields and had to talk to them while they were doing it? Remember how they had to give them explicit instructions on what to do and what to fix?

Oh that's right, you don't because it didn't fucking happen. OMG HIGH PRESSURE SITUATION HOW CAN I TALK TO THE ASTRO- Oh you guys already fixed what was wrong, because you are smarter than I am, have advanced sensors and diagnostics so you know exactly what is wrong and a plethora of tools to fix pretty much anything... on your own? Without me having to talk to you... at all? Sweet.

Those droids were on the outside of the fucking ship, so I don't know what relevance you think that scene has to a discussion of what languages droids use to speak out loud, but are you seriously trying to argue that there's absolutely no method for them to communicate with the crew from out there? Really?

You are a fucking idiot. The point is that they were activated, given instructions on what to do then went and did it. They didn't need further communication.

And if so, are you actually prepared to argue for this being anything other than ridiculously fucking stupid? The crew can't command the droids to prioritize tasks in a particular order, or even ask how much longer a given task will take, and you think that's just hunky fucking dory? REALLY?

First of all numbnuts... where did I say anything like that? Second, where do you get the idea that the crew cannot tell the droids what to do? Again, the POINT is that all the work got done and not one person needed to communicate with the Astromechs outside of activating them and saying/commanding "fix the shields". In fact, it is entirely possible that they were just activated and they then figured out on their own what needed fixing.

Besides which I notice everyone conveniently ignoring the fact that not all R2 units are used on the exterior of starships, not all droids are R2 units, and even within the R-series specialized models existed for everything from working in cooperation with gunnery and security crews to farmwork. To listen to you twats, you'd think that one exterior scene in TPM was the only time we ever saw a droid in Star Wars so gosh why would they ever need to talk when that's all they ever do?

What is hilarious in this thread is YOU ignoring the fact that the entire universe in Star Wars seems to have absolutely ZERO problem talking with droids that can't speak basic or speak at all and just make noises. OBVIOUSLY it is not a fucking issue. "But but I want my droids to talk to me! whaaaaaaaaa" So it looks like the only twat here is you.

There hasn't been a new argument worth shit in this thread for two days. Quit repeating yourselves like a bunch of slobbering morons, I'm getting tired of saying "But it might want to tell you there's a problem!" over and over and over to a bunch of dipshits who can't fathom that a droid doing the job of a technician on a starship might ever have anything it needs to tell someone.

Actually I brought up the fact that Chewie speaks in grunts and growls which are just as equally unintelligible as R2's beeps and boops, yet Han has zero problem understanding him exactly. It was also pointed out that Han completely understood another droid language that was obviously different than how R2 sounded but you haven't addressed that either. So why don't you go fuck yourself and stop bald face lying.

As soon as I saw the most recent poster's name to the right of the thread title I figured I was going to have to read another ream of weak-ass repetitious garbage backed up by a feeble attempt at attitude. Clearly I was not incorrect.

Havok wrote:This isn't a fucking kid just out of mechanics school nimrod. What user error are you expecting from an advanced computer AI?

User error from the human being giving the orders, otherwise known as the user, you hopeless dipshit.

As for user input being illogical or redundant etc... what the fuck does that have to do with R2 not being able to talk. That is operator error. If I tell an R2 unit to put a door on a tree, that is what it is going to do, because I am it's master and it is my slave.

Unless it knows for a fact that you don't have any doors in stock, in which case it's just going to look at you and bloop while you wonder what's wrong with it. I've been posting examples of why a droid might need to offer a complex response to a seemingly valid command since the first page of this thread, why don't you try fucking reading it?

See my above response.

Your above response was fucking worthless.

If you tell it to do something it will do it.

Unless something prevents it from doing so, in which case you might want it to be able to quickly and easily report what the hell the holdup is. Jesus Christ, is this really so hard to understand?

I don't know why you have the fucking retarded idea that every droid is like R2. They do what you tell them to do. That is it. If you yell at it to stop what it is doing, it will stop what it is doing.

I'm going to quit responding to you and feel damn good about it if you don't soon display some indication that you're at least reading what you're responding to. I describe a situation where a droid can't complete a task because of extensive damage or a lack of parts and might want to communicate those facts, and you respond with this? In what fucking way does this even relate? Is there literally something wrong with you?

You are a fucking idiot. The point is that they were activated, given instructions on what to do then went and did it. They didn't need further communication.

In that one particular instance! If they roll out there and discover that the shield is totally fucked, they need to be able to report that. If they discover that the shield can only be restored to partial function, they need to be able to report that. If a second hit damages the sublight drive and the crew decides it's of greater/lesser priority, they need to be able to be told that.

Quit pretending that performing complex technical tasks under combat conditions is some sort of stupid monkeywork that could never ever require the rapid exchange of information. It's screamingly, blatantly, transparently idiotic and I'm getting tired of posting example after example after example to demonstrate that point only to have them all ignored over and over again by some dipshit fecophiliac mongoloid who thinks he can bullshit his way out of a debate.

First of all numbnuts... where did I say anything like that?

Either they can communicate with them or not, make up your mind! Or don't, since this specific example of droids operating in vacuum has been utterly immaterial to a discussion of what language they "speak" from the beginning.

Second, where do you get the idea that the crew cannot tell the droids what to do? Again, the POINT is that all the work got done and not one person needed to communicate with the Astromechs outside of activating them and saying/commanding "fix the shields". In fact, it is entirely possible that they were just activated and they then figured out on their own what needed fixing.

I've already posted enough examples of why further communication could be required, I'm not doing so again until you demonstrate that you've at least read them.

What is hilarious in this thread is YOU ignoring the fact that the entire universe in Star Wars seems to have absolutely ZERO problem talking with droids that can't speak basic or speak at all and just make noises. OBVIOUSLY it is not a fucking issue. "But but I want my droids to talk to me! whaaaaaaaaa" So it looks like the only twat here is you.

Some people are able to understand droidspeak thanks to long familiarity, but it's far from universal. Some people choose to customize their astromech droid with the ability to speak Basic. (Both of these facts were mentioned earlier in this thread, you should try reading it.) What's more, even if droidspeak were taught in every elementary school as a means of compensating for the oversight of astromech droids being forbidden from speaking Basic for some arbitrary reason, it would still be stupid fucking design.

Actually I brought up the fact that Chewie speaks in grunts and growls which are just as equally unintelligible as R2's beeps and boops, yet Han has zero problem understanding him exactly.

And it was a pointless and irrelevant thing to bring up in the first place, since neither of them are droids.

It was also pointed out that Han completely understood another droid language that was obviously different than how R2 sounded but you haven't addressed that either.

I addressed both this and the Chewbacca thing in direct response to you on the very first page of this thread you worthless illiterate fuck. Let me copy it into this post, in a shiny new color, in hopes that you'll actually read it this time.

Also, the fact that Han could understand that droid brings us back to the OP. Why would anyone ever possibly learn to understand droid language when it's likely a huge pain, it's used as a primary means of communication by only some droids, and any droid that can understand Basic AND speak ought to logically be able to speak Basic?

Han and Chewie understanding one another makes sense since they spend a lot of time together and neither seems to have the physical ability to speak the other's language. Someone learning to understand a series of bleeps and buzzes because a droid engineer somewhere went ahead and installed the Basic language pack but set it to "understand only, never speak" for some incomprehensible reason is vastly less sensible.

So why don't you go fuck yourself and stop bald face lying.

This was really a piss-poor post on your part. I mean you should feel embarrassed. You're failing Internet 101 here, but I just know you'll come right back and post "BUT U TELL DROIDS WHAT TO DO AND THEY DO IT!!" yet again like it's some sort of crushing rebuttal.

I posit that astromech droids are fully capable of speech in Basic.
They just choose not to. (Also, imagine the effect on the movies' ratings if Artoo's foul mouth was speaking in English.)

I do want to ask, because it'll be a fun exercise.

We have seen Artoo told to do something vague:

1. Shutting down Garbage compactors. Not told how, just told to do so.
2. Repair something on a X-Wing in the middle of battle.
3. Deliver plans to a single person on a desert world.
4. Serve drinks.
5. Toss Lightsaber
6. Open bunker door

Artoo not told what to do:

1. Play Chess
2. Repair the Falcon's hyperdrive
3. Push Threepio off exploding barge
4. Cut way of net

In any of those would any really have been better if he went "Look Foo' Get out of my way as D2 is about to show this bitch ship who's the boss!". Oh wait, for

1. Shutting down Garbage compactors. Not told how, just told to do so. - 3Po gave him a random order practically

2. Repair something on a X-Wing in the middle of battle. - Possibly the most specific order he has ever been given in the trilogy.

3. Deliver plans to a single person on a desert world. - Hell, he had to tell Threepio his plans. Maybe to shut him up?

4. Serve drinks. - He bitches to Threepio.

5. Toss Lightsaber - We presume Luke told him something of what to do.

6. Open bunker door - Han kinda shoves him forward.

So yes, having him talk actually doesn't improve anything. And R2 is unique. Why? Because he doesn't get wiped. The other R2 units are little automated repair bots. Why the fuck should they talk. You give them an order, they accomplish, you put them away as you would a wrench.

Ghost Rider wrote:In any of those would any really have been better if he went "Look Foo' Get out of my way as D2 is about to show this bitch ship who's the boss!".

Yeah, it's really hard to imagine a situation where R2 might need to talk. It requires a really outrageous scenario, like him not having a dedicated translator droid to follow him everywhere he goes. Also, crazy research, like knowing what happens in the movie Star Wars.

ANH Script wrote:Suddenly the little robot jumps to life with a mass of
frantic whistles and screams.

LUKE: What's wrong with him now?

THREEPIO: Oh my...sir, he says there are several creatures approaching
from the southeast.

Luke swings his rifle into position and looks to the south.

LUKE: Sandpeople! Or worse! Come on, let's have a look. Come on.

And now, without Threepio...

ARTOO: Beep boop! (Oh crap, we're in danger!)
LUKE: What's that boy? What's the matter?
ARTOO: Beep boop! (They're coming from the southeast!)
LUKE: I don't know what you're trying to tell me.
ARTOO: Boop beep! (Oh god, run you fool!)
LUKE: I'll give you an oil change when we get home.
ARTOO: Beep boop! (Oh fucking hell.)

ANH Script wrote:Artoo punches his claw arm into the computer socket and the
vast Imperial brain network comes to life, feeding information
to the little robot. After a few moments, he beeps something.

THREEPIO: He says he's found the main computer to power the tractor
beam that's holding the ship here. He'll try to make the precise
location appear on the monitor.

The computer monitor flashes readouts.

THREEPIO: The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven
locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to
leave.

Sans Threepio...

ARTOO: Beep boop! (Hey I know how to get out of here!)
LUKE: I wonder how we get out of here.
ARTOO: Boop beep! (The tractor beam is coupled to the...)
HAN: Yeah, and how we're supposed to turn that tractor beam off.

ANH Script wrote:Suddenly Artoo begins to whistle and beep a blue streak.
Luke goes over to him.

LUKE: What is it?

THREEPIO: I'm afraid I'm not quite sure, sir. He says "I found her",
and keeps repeating, "She's here."

LUKE: Well, who...who has he found?

Artoo whistles a frantic reply.

THREEPIO: Princess Leia.

And yet again...

ARTOO: Beep boop beep! (Holy crap I found her!)
LUKE: Shut up Artoo, you can't even talk.
ARTOO: Boop beep beep! (Princess Leia!)
HAN: Yeah, shut up, we're arguing over whether Ben is an old crank or not!
ARTOO: Beep blat boop! (I'm now going to hack the display to one of these monitors, and the fate of the entire rest of the series depends on you noticing despite your ongoing argument. This is way more convenient than just being able to say "Hey guys, I found the princess!")

You give them an order, they accomplish, you put them away as you would a wrench.

Unless they can't accomplish the order, in which case you might want to know what the damn problem is, as I keep saying over and over and over to this exact argument just so someone else can repeat it 8 hours later and think they're quite original.

It's a mobile computer with no on-board output device except maybe a tiny Game Boy sized screen that you'll need to kneel down to inspect, and an audio system that only broadcasts a language you don't speak. I'm sure you guys would argue that this is all the interface capability you need to complete complex tasks in a fluid situation if this were from something besides Star Wars.

Ghetto edit: Human-compatible output devices, I mean. Just heading off some brilliant chucklehead reminding me that plugging into a computer socket in the wall is also output.

*scratches head* Call me silly, but for something that essentially is a walking toolbox, those DO seem like rather outrageous scenarios to me.
But feel free to sue the manufacturer of your jack for it not being able to warn you of approaching burglars as you were using it to change a tire.

DudeGuyMan wrote:<snip scenarios>

Because these are what the typical R2 units are programmed to deal with... oh wait, they aren't. What part of "R2-D2 is a unique example" are you not getting here?

You give them an order, they accomplish, you put them away as you would a wrench.

Unless they can't accomplish the order, in which case you might want to know what the damn problem is, as I keep saying over and over and over to this exact argument just so someone else can repeat it 8 hours later and think they're quite original.

It's a mobile computer with no on-board output device except maybe a tiny Game Boy sized screen that you'll need to kneel down to inspect, and an audio system that only broadcasts a language you don't speak. I'm sure you guys would argue that this is all the interface capability you need to complete complex tasks in a fluid situation if this were from something besides Star Wars.

So do you get pissed when your copier failed to give a detailed explanation of why it can't print double-sided? Do you demand voice-software for your ethernet card so you know exactly what the fuck is wrong with it? Do you want a mouse that lets you know in a cute little voice when its optical hardware is blocked by detritus? No, because these are all connected to a computer which acts as the interface point for you. The typical R2 unit is meant to be a smaller part of a greater whole, and the interface is generally either the machine it's dedicated to (like, say, a spaceship), or a protocol droid if it has no immediate dedicated machine.

To hammer home the point yet another time: R2-D2 is an exception which proves the rule because despite the numerous situations he's been through, stuff that no R2 unit has been programmed to deal with an should be expected to deal with when used for its designed purpose, he's still managed to get out the required information.

If my jack were a sentient robot with sensors built in to detect nearby lifeforms, it would be nice if it also had the ability to tell me with a minimum of fuss when it sensed something it felt I should know about. Also, if I could tell my jack to fix a flat and expect it to complete the job solo, I'd like it to be able to tell me if the spare I threw in my trunk won't fit, or whatever.

You are retard.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:In any of those would any really have been better if he went "Look Foo' Get out of my way as D2 is about to show this bitch ship who's the boss!".

Yeah, it's really hard to imagine a situation where R2 might need to talk. It requires a really outrageous scenario, like him not having a dedicated translator droid to follow him everywhere he goes. Also, crazy research, like knowing what happens in the movie Star Wars.

Good thing he always had one tagging along. Given the situation, they should feel happy he was along with or without R2, fuck an astromech that may not have these ideas or independence to do this shit like this.

I mean Wedge gets problem that doesn't blow him up and he doesn't ask his astromech to even examine. Luke does...I wonder.

ANH Script wrote:Suddenly the little robot jumps to life with a mass of
frantic whistles and screams.

LUKE: What's wrong with him now?

THREEPIO: Oh my...sir, he says there are several creatures approaching
from the southeast.

Luke swings his rifle into position and looks to the south.

LUKE: Sandpeople! Or worse! Come on, let's have a look. Come on.

And now, without Threepio...

ARTOO: Beep boop! (Oh crap, we're in danger!)
LUKE: What's that boy? What's the matter?
ARTOO: Beep boop! (They're coming from the southeast!)
LUKE: I don't know what you're trying to tell me.
ARTOO: Boop beep! (Oh god, run you fool!)
LUKE: I'll give you an oil change when we get home.
ARTOO: Beep boop! (Oh fucking hell.)

Strange he needed Threepio to be found to determine he had to go out and find him. With no Threepio he wouldn't have been bought. So good thing he has that tag along, eh?

And oh WAIT, let's say he gets bought...he's under a fucking SLAVE BOLT, which he needed 3P0 to get off of him. So what the fuck happens now?

ANH Script wrote:Artoo punches his claw arm into the computer socket and the
vast Imperial brain network comes to life, feeding information
to the little robot. After a few moments, he beeps something.

THREEPIO: He says he's found the main computer to power the tractor
beam that's holding the ship here. He'll try to make the precise
location appear on the monitor.

The computer monitor flashes readouts.

THREEPIO: The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven
locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to
leave.

Sans Threepio...

ARTOO: Beep boop! (Hey I know how to get out of here!)
LUKE: I wonder how we get out of here.
ARTOO: Boop beep! (The tractor beam is coupled to the...)
HAN: Yeah, and how we're supposed to turn that tractor beam off.

Strange he needed Threepio to be found to determine he had to go out and find him. With no Threepio he wouldn't have been bought. So good thing he has that tag along, eh?

And oh WAIT, let's say he gets bought...he's under a fucking SLAVE BOLT, which he needed 3P0 to get off of him. So what the fuck happens now?

ANH Script wrote:Suddenly Artoo begins to whistle and beep a blue streak.
Luke goes over to him.

LUKE: What is it?

THREEPIO: I'm afraid I'm not quite sure, sir. He says "I found her",
and keeps repeating, "She's here."

LUKE: Well, who...who has he found?

Artoo whistles a frantic reply.

THREEPIO: Princess Leia.

And yet again...

This also has the problem that comes to

ARTOO: Beep boop beep! (Holy crap I found her!)
LUKE: Shut up Artoo, you can't even talk.
ARTOO: Boop beep beep! (Princess Leia!)
HAN: Yeah, shut up, we're arguing over whether Ben is an old crank or not!
ARTOO: Beep blat boop! (I'm now going to hack the display to one of these monitors, and the fate of the entire rest of the series depends on you noticing despite your ongoing argument. This is way more convenient than just being able to say "Hey guys, I found the princess!")

Strange he needed Threepio to be found to determine he had to go out and find him. With no Threepio he wouldn't have been bought. So good thing he has that tag along, eh?

And oh WAIT, let's say he gets bought...he's under a fucking SLAVE BOLT, which he needed 3P0 to get off of him. So what the fuck happens now?

You give them an order, they accomplish, you put them away as you would a wrench.

Unless they can't accomplish the order, in which case you might want to know what the damn problem is, as I keep saying over and over and over to this exact argument just so someone else can repeat it 8 hours later and think they're quite original.

It's a mobile computer with no on-board output device except maybe a tiny Game Boy sized screen that you'll need to kneel down to inspect, and an audio system that only broadcasts a language you don't speak. I'm sure you guys would argue that this is all the interface capability you need to complete complex tasks in a fluid situation if this were from something besides Star Wars.

Then you find the device that help you with the wrench(like mechanics do!) or find the right tool.

It's nice that you keep asserting your stupidty to inform us of this trait. Continue please.

God what a pack of dipshits. Posts are coming faster than I can answer, so I'm going to have to double up a little.

Batman wrote:*scratches head* Call me silly, but for something that essentially is a walking toolbox, those DO seem like rather outrageous scenarios to me.
But feel free to sue the manufacturer of your jack for it not being able to warn you of approaching burglars as you were using it to change a tire.

If my jack were a sentient robot with sensors built in to detect nearby lifeforms, it would be nice if it also had the ability to tell me with a minimum of fuss when it sensed something it felt I should know about. Also, if I could tell my jack to fix a flat and expect it to complete the job solo, I'd like it to be able to tell me if the spare I threw in my trunk won't fit, or whatever.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Because these are what the typical R2 units are programmed to deal with... oh wait, they aren't. What part of "R2-D2 is a unique example" are you not getting here?

I'm not the one who wanted to begin bringing up random scenarios from the movies. Besides which, there are plenty of other more mundane situations where a droid might wish to interject with intelligible information.

So do you get pissed when your copier failed to give a detailed explanation of why it can't print double-sided?

If my copier were... and I'm sure you're sensing a theme here... a sentient robot that already has the ability to understand what is wrong with it or why my instructions aren't workable, then yes, it would be very helpful if it could just tell me. I mean you've never had a copier or a fax act like it has a paper jam when no such thing seems to be the case? It'd be great if it could just go "Sensor is fucked up, just open my lid and wiggle the black thing!"

Do you demand voice-software for your ethernet card so you know exactly what the fuck is wrong with it? Do you want a mouse that lets you know in a cute little voice when its optical hardware is blocked by detritus? No, because these are all connected to a computer which acts as the interface point for you. The typical R2 unit is meant to be a smaller part of a greater whole, and the interface is generally either the machine it's dedicated to (like, say, a spaceship),

No. They can be plugged directly into a spacecraft, but stating that this is their sole intended purpose is just bullshit, especially since I've pasted multiple examples to the contrary into this thread direct from Wookipedia complete with links. There were entire models dedicated to farmwork, among other things, for crying out loud.

They have wheels, and sensors, independant speech-processing ability, and the ability to communicate audibly. They're used as mechanics and janitors and farmhands. They're droids, not simple immoble computer components, and pretending that the ability for them to operate without being plugged into something is some sort of crazy idea that nobody would ever consider is just plain garbage.

They already know at least two languages (Binary and Basic) and already "speak" one of them. The question is why they neglect to speak the other when it's the dominant language in the galaxy and, again, they already know it.

or a protocol droid if it has no immediate dedicated machine.

Full stop.

Explain why, when the R2 is not plugged into a machine, using an entire second droid as a translator isn't a completely RIDICULOUS solution compared to just having the R2 speak a language it already knows.

And I'd like my microwave to be able to fix world hunger, ensure nice weather all year round, and see to it that the TV program no longer sucks 99% of the time. Damn. My microwave definitely sucks for not being able to do that!
The point, which apparently sailed over your head time and again, is that when doing the jobs they are meant to do, R2s don't NEED to be able to talk directly to humans.

Here's where the wonder comes from. Artoo is a portable toolbox that fixes problem they can't(Out in space) or it's easier too.

They expect this out of an astromech and not one single person in the entire SW has gone and wondered what you did, thus by extension you are coming up with a problem that they have not even when they are the one's intimately familiar with the technology, society, and critters.

So then you come up with things that were resolved and in fact wouldn't have happened because the set of circumstances to change such would radically change the scenario. But you're angry that you think they could've been handled better by your ideas and keep hammering that you are correct and the lone voice for it and present evidence that wouldn't have come into play UNLESS said circumstances were done the way they were in the movie. And you rant and rave that we cannot see your vision.

Keep firing away, asshole. And remember not up her nose.

Ghost Rider wrote:Good thing he always had one tagging along. Given the situation, they should feel happy he was along with or without R2, fuck an astromech that may not have these ideas or independence to do this shit like this.

Yeah, isn't it a good thing? I'd hate to be the guy in some other situation whose astromech needed to tell him something important, who didn't have a whole second droid with him to translate for the first one that day.

I mean Wedge gets problem that doesn't blow him up and he doesn't ask his astromech to even examine. Luke does...I wonder.

What?

Strange he needed Threepio to be found to determine he had to go out and find him. With no Threepio he wouldn't have been bought. So good thing he has that tag along, eh?

I tell you it's stupid that they needed to have a second droid just to understand what the first one was saying, because otherwise they'd be fucked, and your reponse is "Well they had one so there!" Gee, that totally makes it a sensible design decision.

And oh WAIT, let's say he gets bought...he's under a fucking SLAVE BOLT, which he needed 3P0 to get off of him. So what the fuck happens now?

Huh? I don't get what the fuck you're on about. Yeah, the plot of the movie worked out such that their particular R2 unit always had his own personal translator droid standing by to pass along critical information. That doesn't make the requirement for such any less idiotic in terms of design.

Then you find the device that help you with the wrench(like mechanics do!) or find the right tool.

Yeah, you CAN put down whatever you're doing whenever your robot has something to say. Then pull out an external device, or plug it into another computer, or call over a second robot to act as translator for the first one. Under normal circumstances having to do so won't KILL you.

That doesn't mean that failing to include the ability for the robot to generate meaningful output by itself isn't fucking retarded. Especially when it already communicates audibly and has a fluent understanding of the language.

It's nice that you keep asserting your stupidty to inform us of this trait. Continue please.

This was a shit post.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Because these are what the typical R2 units are programmed to deal with... oh wait, they aren't. What part of "R2-D2 is a unique example" are you not getting here?

I'm not the one who wanted to begin bringing up random scenarios from the movies. Besides which, there are plenty of other more mundane situations where a droid might wish to interject with intelligible information.

And of course the whole R2 line was an abject failure in the SW universe because of this lack of voice interface for... wait, no it wasn't. Never mind, obviously it works, and no amount of you asserting it doesn't will change that. *shrug*

So do you get pissed when your copier failed to give a detailed explanation of why it can't print double-sided?

If my copier were... and I'm sure you're sensing a theme here... a sentient robot that already has the ability to understand what is wrong with it or why my instructions aren't workable, then yes, it would be very helpful if it could just tell me. I mean you've never had a copier or a fax act like it has a paper jam when no such thing seems to be the case? It'd be great if it could just go "Sensor is fucked up, just open my lid and wiggle the black thing!"

So you demand that machines regularly fulfill tasks they weren't designed to do. Gotcha.

Do you demand voice-software for your ethernet card so you know exactly what the fuck is wrong with it? Do you want a mouse that lets you know in a cute little voice when its optical hardware is blocked by detritus? No, because these are all connected to a computer which acts as the interface point for you. The typical R2 unit is meant to be a smaller part of a greater whole, and the interface is generally either the machine it's dedicated to (like, say, a spaceship),

No. They can be plugged directly into a spacecraft, but stating that this is their sole intended purpose is just bullshit, especially since I've pasted multiple examples to the contrary into this thread direct from Wookipedia complete with links. There were entire models dedicated to farmwork, among other things, for crying out loud.

Yup, and since they don't have voice interfaces, the line is an abject failure in the SW universe... wait, no it isn't. Once more, they work fine without voice interfaces, the movies have shown this to be so, you're the child stamping his feet and demanding that they don't in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

They have wheels, and sensors, independant speech-processing ability, and the ability to communicate audibly. They're used as mechanics and janitors and farmhands. They're droids, not simple immoble computer components, and pretending that the ability for them to operate without being plugged into something is some sort of crazy idea that nobody would ever consider is just plain garbage.

I see nothing of substance here, so moving on in the hopes that you say something coherent...

They already know at least two languages (Binary and Basic) and already "speak" one of them. The question is why they neglect to speak the other when it's the dominant language in the galaxy and, again, they already know it.

Wait for it... wait for it...

Because they don't need to.

or a protocol droid if it has no immediate dedicated machine.

Full stop.

Explain why, when the R2 is not plugged into a machine, using an entire second droid as a translator isn't a completely RIDICULOUS solution compared to just having the R2 speak a language it already knows.

[/quote]

Damn, you should tell that to everyone in the SW universe who has been doing just fine with this setup.

Not to mention your hilarious strawman that a protocol droid is necessarily hooked up to one unit and one unit only. It's pretty damn obvious that the protocol droid serves as the general interpreter for all the droids in a given locale. The protocol droid is the equivalent to the computer monitor letting you know what's going on with the various systems.

Yep. Using situations that an astromech is astronomically unlikely to get into in the first place to claim they need to be able to talk. Yep, that's DEFINITELY the way to go.
99.99% of the time astromech droids don't NEED to and often CAN'T directly talk to humans. I mean by now we know you're stupid (or at the very least willfully ignorant).
Yep, that sledgehammer would have been a LOT more useful the time you were cornered by a bunch of Hell's Angels if it had included a 12 gauge. Definitely a design flaw. Bloody useless sledgehammer.

Batman wrote:And I'd like my microwave to be able to fix world hunger, ensure nice weather all year round, and see to it that the TV program no longer sucks 99% of the time. Damn. My microwave definitely sucks for not being able to do that!

Really? Really? This shit isn't even worth a real response.

The point, which apparently sailed over your head time and again, is that when doing the jobs they are meant to do, R2s don't NEED to be able to talk directly to humans.

WRONG. They're already designed to receive verbal input and generate audible output. What you need to do, and what all of you dipshits have been frantically scrambling to avoid doing, is explain why they're designed to do these things in two different languages.

Besides which, it's already been established in this thread that some users have either found it helpful to learn to understand binary, or have been exposed to it so extensively that they just picked it up. Neither of those things make the least bit of sense if R2 units (or the non-spacefaring models everyone ignores) never talk to people.

Ghost Rider wrote:They expect this out of an astromech and not one single person in the entire SW has gone and wondered what you did, thus by extension you are coming up with a problem that they have not even when they are the one's intimately familiar with the technology, society, and critters.

Nobody in Star Trek ever goes "Hey why the hell don't our guns have sights and why are touchpads the one and only interface for everything?" Nobody in BattleTech ever goes "Wow this whole mech thing is a really stupid idea!" Telling me that people in-universe don't have a problem with it is a fucking utterly worthless argument.

Especially when we see people in-universe doing ridiculous shit like learning to understand droid language, or using entire second droids to substitute for giving the first droid the ability to speak a language it already knows.

Keep firing away, asshole. And remember not up her nose.

Your arguments are worthless and your attempts at attitude laughable. But hey, you two retards keep jacking each other off, trying to convince yourselves you don't sound like dipshits.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:They expect this out of an astromech and not one single person in the entire SW has gone and wondered what you did, thus by extension you are coming up with a problem that they have not even when they are the one's intimately familiar with the technology, society, and critters.

Nobody in Star Trek ever goes "Hey why the hell don't our guns have sights and why are touchpads the one and only interface for everything?" Nobody in BattleTech ever goes "Wow this whole mech thing is a really stupid idea!" Telling me that people in-universe don't have a problem with it is a fucking utterly worthless argument.

You have to demonstrate there is a problem...in that universe. But you don't. You applying this situation from the point of view of an outsider and expect us to see your logic.

Especially when we see people in-universe doing ridiculous shit like learning to understand droid language, or using entire second droids to substitute for giving the first droid the ability to speak a language it already knows.

Ah, the next red herring. Here, he will explain why learning a droid language is dumb or using an interpreter that can do 6 millions forms of communications to relay information is stupid.

I expect another long winded diatribe.

Keep firing away, asshole. And remember not up her nose.

Your arguments are worthless and your attempts at attitude laughable. But hey, you two retards keep jacking each other off, trying to convince yourselves you don't sound like dipshits.

Again, her ear is not a hole to plug.

DudeGuyMan wrote:

Batman wrote:And I'd like my microwave to be able to fix world hunger, ensure nice weather all year round, and see to it that the TV program no longer sucks 99% of the time. Damn. My microwave definitely sucks for not being able to do that!

Really? Really? This shit isn't even worth a real response.

Sarcasm. It's a difficult concept.

The point, which apparently sailed over your head time and again, is that when doing the jobs they are meant to do, R2s don't NEED to be able to talk directly to humans.

WRONG. They're already designed to receive verbal input and generate audible output. What you need to do, and what all of you dipshits have been frantically scrambling to avoid doing, is explain why they're designed to do these things in two different languages.

Err-no. What YOU have to do is show WHY R2s WOULD NEED TO BE ABLE TO TALK BACK.

Besides which, it's already been established in this thread that some users have either found it helpful to learn to understand binary, or have been exposed to it so extensively that they just picked it up. Neither of those things make the least bit of sense if R2 units (or the non-spacefaring models everyone ignores) never talk to people.

The 'droids never talk to people' bit coming from...? Nobody denied droids talk to people, or people talk to droids. This is about R2 units HAVING to be able to speak and um-no, they don't.

Ghost Rider wrote:They expect this out of an astromech and not one single person in the entire SW has gone and wondered what you did, thus by extension you are coming up with a problem that they have not even when they are the one's intimately familiar with the technology, society, and critters.

Nobody in Star Trek ever goes "Hey why the hell don't our guns have sights and why are touchpads the one and only interface for everything?" Nobody in BattleTech ever goes "Wow this whole mech thing is a really stupid idea!" Telling me that people in-universe don't have a problem with it is a fucking utterly worthless argument.

No it's not. You get to call people in that universe stupid for doing that.You do NOT get to deny it HAPPENED.