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Vympel wrote:

Havok wrote:

Vympel wrote: All of this. It comes off as rather ... desperate?

No, it is just sick of the Star Wars franchise being watered down with fucking garbage.

I was agreeing with you. I was saying "All of this" as in the convention of quoting someone you agree with and saying "this".

Ah. Gotchya. I forget that English is your second language.

Right, because the Stormtroopers were so effective and threatening in the OT.

They were to me, actually, the start of ANH established it quite well, and it carried over into TESB due to the Imperial victory at Hoth. They only became a joke in RotJ. Which is a reason why RotJ is the weakest film of the three.

And how old were you when you saw ANH the first time? Even given that, the Rebel troops were just as effective as the Stromtroopers in the smallest hallway in the Star Wars universe. And what did the stormtroopers do on Hoth besides walk with Darth Vader and get blasted by the mini gun on the Falcon? You are attributing the menace of the Walkers to the STs.

And you know, battle droids didn't kill dozens of Jedi and billions of people in the prequels or anything.

Oh bullshit

They didn't?

who the hell cares whether some random fire from random battle droids killed some random Jedi you barely see in one scene in AotC out of all the prequel battles? The point is that they're no threat to the main characters at all, and we know that. We're meant to know that, Lucas even said it explicitly in a behind the scenes special. That's shitty drama, period.

And when where the Stormtroopers ever a threat to the main characters at all in the OT? C'mon. Han scarred and chased them down the hallway of their own planet destroying base.

Not to mention I didn't see jack shit of battle droids killing billions of people in the prequels.

Yeah? Neither did Karren Travis... how do we treat her? And you also don't see Stormtroopers in the OT doing that either, and even still, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen or isn't implied, very heavily even.

Sorry dude, but you are looking at the Stormtroopers in the OT through rose colored lenses.

And how old were you when you saw ANH the first time? Even given that, the Rebel troops were just as effective as the Stromtroopers in the smallest hallway in the Star Wars universe. And what did the stormtroopers do on Hoth besides walk with Darth Vader and get blasted by the mini gun on the Falcon? You are attributing the menace of the Walkers to the STs.

The rebel troopers on board the Tantive IV were wiped out without much resistance. The stormtroopers took only two casualties in the initial boarding even though it was a chokepoint where the rebels should have been able to hold them back if both sides were eqaually effective.

However at the same time, on the Death Star, stormtroopers seemed to be mostly useless. While this is justifed as the stormtroopers being ordered to let the rebels go, this does not excuse some of the mistakes they make. Don't forget the scene where they try to box in Han and Chewie with blast doors and end up trapping themselves. Also if they were letting the rebels excape, why would they try to trap them in the frist place?

I'd like to see a different point of view. A sendup a la Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.
I'm sure there are many EU plots that involve this.

Havok wrote:Sorry dude, but you are looking at the Stormtroopers in the OT through rose colored lenses.

The Storm Troopers in Episode IV are initially pretty badass... at least during the first third of the movie. In the very first scene, they blast through the Tantive IV and easily overwhelm the Rebels. Then they mercilessly hunt down the two droids, brutally killing Luke's foster parents in the process. They're actually pretty threatening, and even call to mind Nazi occupiers as they set up checkpoints and search around Mos Eisley.

Unfortunately, that's about the extent of their badassery; they quickly devolve into typical bumbling evil minions as soon as they are confronted with heroes who have super-advanced, impenetrable character shields. Their ineptitude culminates at Endor, where they're humiliated by a tribe of midgets with Stone Age technology.

Channel72 wrote:Unfortunately, that's about the extent of their badassery; they quickly devolve into typical bumbling evil minions as soon as they are confronted with heroes who have super-advanced, impenetrable character shields. Their ineptitude culminates at Endor, where they're humiliated by a tribe of midgets with Stone Age technology.

At least up until Endor they had the excuse of doing those things on purpose, as both Leia and Tarkin mention after the Death Star Escape that they were "let go" and that was the only possible explanation for how they could have escaped so easily as Stormtroopers are much better shots than that.

On Cloud City they had a similar tactic, this time involving the falcon's Hyperdrive being disabled rather than a tracking device put on it, but once again the Stormtroopers never intended to hit them.

On Endor things get a little hairy (no pun intended), but they Intentionally wanted the Ewoks to be loosing the battle at first to try and keep the Empire from becoming too much of a joke, which is why the tide doesn't turn until Chewie steals an AT-ST etc.

That's still full of fail. One yeti in a chicken-walker shouldn't turn the tide against the emperor's finest legion.

And how old were you when you saw ANH the first time? Even given that, the Rebel troops were just as effective as the Stromtroopers in the smallest hallway in the Star Wars universe. And what did the stormtroopers do on Hoth besides walk with Darth Vader and get blasted by the mini gun on the Falcon? You are attributing the menace of the Walkers to the STs.

And there's nothing wrong with that. The Imperial military machine isn't just the Stormtroopers, they're one part of it, and they're menacing.

Battledroids aren't. Ever.

They didn't?

They didn't what? That billions of people stuff? When did this ever happen in the movies? I'm talking about what the audience can glean from watching the movie - your taking something a nerd might merely imply after thinking about it as if it establishes the droid armies as a threat - that's just a bad joke.

And when where the Stormtroopers ever a threat to the main characters at all in the OT? C'mon. Han scarred and chased them down the hallway of their own planet destroying base.

The Stormtroopers are a threat to the main characters of the OT (particularly on first viewing, which is what matters the most for establishing whether an aspect of the film sucks or not) because the characters aren't superhuman and you don't know if they're going to get shot or not. They're also more easy to perceive as a threat because they happen to look and act far more threatening than the spastic head-bobbing nasal-whiny voice of the retard battledroids of the prequels.

Yeah? Neither did Karren Travis... how do we treat her?

What has Karen Traviss got to do with anything? Stop being an idiot. Your argument completely misses the point - you are attempting to make the ridiculous argument that battle droids can be perceived as a threat by a viewing audience - based not on what you can watch - but from what one can imply mostly off of EU material if they even gave a fuck. That's just fucking stupid. Its the worst sort of nerd fail nonsense to excuse rubbish zero-drama from the prequel movies with "oh but they must've killed billions of people because of [insert whatever]"

I don't know how much more explicit I can make it - those comical collection of near-retard enemy soldiers do not become a source of drama to the audience in the films by virtue of their being responsible for billions of deaths. You're just talking total bullshit. They're not a threat to the main characters - i.e. who the fucking movie is about, and they act like total fools all the time. It is impossible for them to be a significant source of drama or suspense.

Frankly, your argument is the direct equivalent of arguing that watching Hogan's Heroes is full of suspense because there are Nazis in it.

Sorry dude, but you are looking at the Stormtroopers in the OT through rose colored lenses.

Nonsense. They are a far more menacing presence than the moronic battle droids of the prequels, that should be obvious to anyone.

If billions were killed by the battle-droids, they must have been too stupid to allow to live. Battle-droids could be defeated by that freakin' Home Alone kid. If they were killed by stormies, I'd feel some sympathy.

One thing that they need to decide is if Star Wars is going to be kid thing, or if it is going to be a serious show for grown-ups. Lucas seems to constantly go back and forth on this. A lot of slapstick has been introduced to keep the sugar and ADD crowd interested, which detracts from the whole thing, IMO.

I don't want it to be a fucking documentary about "our shields can withstand a ten to the sixth power skigaton blast!" but just good storytelling about interesting people. If it brings back Stormies as an actual threat, all the better. And no, I don't want to see any more Jedi. I'm tired of the damn wizards running around zapping each other. Normal people I can relate to.

Coyote wrote:And no, I don't want to see any more Jedi. I'm tired of the damn wizards running around zapping each other. Normal people I can relate to.

If Lucas follows the trend of the films, then you should be in luck - the implication they give is that Yoda and Kenobi are it, regardless of the impression the EU gives of most of the order surviving Order 66, and a decent chunk of it still around post-Endor.

Even though it probably won't happen, I wouldn't mind seeing the Young Han Solo Trilogy (By A.C. Crispin) adapted in some form.

Paradise Snare
Hutt Gambit
Rebel Dawn

Think about it, you've got the seamy underworld and Hutt Crime syndicates fighting it out, the birth of the Rebellion (From the point of view of Bria Tharen,) the day-to-day life of the Imperial Service when Han is in the Imperial Navy, and even a little Vader cameo in the Hutt Gambit, also, Sabaac, space-battles and smuggling runs and Imperial atrocities galore after Han is drummed out of the Navy for saving Chewie.

You have common locations, new characters and viewpoints but with some landmarks that you know and love, like Han, Chewie, the Falcon, Jabba and Lando


You'd need to cast a good young actor for Han though, and Bria too. Wonder who would be good?

You never really see the ordinary Rebels open up a can of whoopass, and I think this series would be good with that what with Red Hand squadron's assault on the slaver ship, Ylesia, and subsequently the comm center on Topwara to retrieve the Death Star Plans.

My 2 cents

Coyote wrote:I don't want it to be a fucking documentary about "our shields can withstand a ten to the sixth power skigaton blast!"

Hilariously, that "superfluous boring [tech]" stuff isn't a documentary style of storytelling (in documentaries, people talk like people).

It's the Voyager style of storytelling. The irony that some people profess to want this (for "analysis purposes" of course) is absolutely delicious

They are going to write it for the female crowd which is why they are making specific 'soap opera, not space opera' references. This means character drama with an emphasis towards the commonplace since 'of course' women don't want to be involved in heavy combatant roles where they actually get blood on the fists they beat their breasts with.

I think SW is screwed, permanently, unless they either reboot or skip a few generations into truly unknown territory. And probably even then.

Why? Because the obsession with REAL conflict (not made up crap to cover for personality flaws and affected angst) is what drives one's blood pressure up and makes you feel that gasp, those main characters you were talking about are truly in danger of being killed.

And so is the cause they believe in.

'Star Wars' without THE WAR PART is just another evening melohamma looking to justify it's own exi$tence into syndication.

And they can't even do that right, here, because we know it's all leadup to the OT and the 'real heroes' having their day and say. Real heroes who are so lame I might add that they can't take a lot of competition before the interwar years start to look cooler than the main story.

I'm thinking that fan in 'Major League' got it right. It's time to roll up the astroturf and call it a season. Of course he got embarrassed by the Wild Thing so hey, who knows. Polar bears in the Sahara...

LopEaredGaloot wrote:They are going to write it for the female crowd which is why they are making specific 'soap opera, not space opera' references. This means character drama with an emphasis towards the commonplace since 'of course' women don't want to be involved in heavy combatant roles where they actually get blood on the fists they beat their breasts with.

The actual quote from Lucas on the first place also called it "noir," so don't act like they're trying to make this a "commonplace" drama.

And they can't even do that right, here, because we know it's all leadup to the OT and the 'real heroes' having their day and say. Real heroes who are so lame I might add that they can't take a lot of competition before the interwar years start to look cooler than the main story.

I'm thinking that fan in 'Major League' got it right. It's time to roll up the astroturf and call it a season. Of course he got embarrassed by the Wild Thing so hey, who knows. Polar bears in the Sahara...

According to you SW sucked from the start, so I don't even know why you even care.

And here I thought the show was focusing on the "everyman" in SW, with the odd look at a bigger player like a Jedi that escaped the purge.

Bonus points for the bizarre anti-chick imagery though, that was nice.

Jim Raynor wrote: The actual quote from Lucas on the first place also called it "noir," so don't act like they're trying to make this a "commonplace" drama.

I think "'The Sopranos' crossed with 'Deadwood' set on Tatooine" basically says all that I could possibly laugh at here. If that's todays emo crowds' concept of 'noir', Force help us.

Jim Raynor wrote: According to you SW sucked from the start, so I don't even know why you even care.

Why is the sky blue? No, don't tell me the physics of atmospheric refraction, just tell me why blue isn't red or green or yellow.

Wanna hint? There is no why.

It's less the what we love than the how we love it.

I love 'Star Wars' at least as much as you do. And the -way- I love it is to want it to be so much grander than this tired little fadeout is giving as a sorry sendoff. Like the major themes of love and conquest are too old hat to be worthy of the big screen so they will treat it like an over the hill actor and retire it to TV where it will have 'a wider audience'.

You know, like the Hollywood Squares.

Such is not how it's supposed to go. The enemy vanquished, the hero walks into the sunset, his girl or his faithful droid at his side, and then the director politely fades to black.

You folks are so desperate for a 'hit' of the old magic that you reduce yourselves to listing what you will -accept- in a lesser form, so long as it it's something SW new.

That's like a crack addict listing the things they will eat out of a dumpster to better save money for their habit.

And it's also the key to what is wrong here. SW isn't new. It comes with so much baggage, so many expectations, so much ruinous aftermath of disappointment in purile crap, that to try and lasso the whole damn thing together /yet again/ is going to end up just diluting it even more.

Until and unless society and certainly entertainment becomes less of a pissant, PC, -business-; so that the feeling of the 70's can make a revanchist, unapologetic, _militant_ comeback. Star Wars can't begin to chart a course to recapture what it lost in a sea of BS introspective navel contemplation in 1983.

Hardass, blood and guts, EXCITING adventure where you grabbed the story by the errrrm, 'neck' with both hands and squeezed hard until it gave you what you wanted from a heroic climax. Which was NEVER some fucked u multicult, teddy bear cannibal, love fest.

Furthermore, I think if you will all just admit it, you will realize that the reason SW is so 'popular' is because it missed out on the great ending that SHOULD have resulted from that climax with the hero triumphant instead of wussed out. The girl in the right guy's arms instead of the filthy drug smuggling lothario's. And the story truly concluded instead of half assed.

It's just too damn bad when a great legend is ended so badly that nearly 30 years later people are still waiting for (the) 'it' to come back.

Sans a great hero who can stand up to modern weapons fire with or without his character shield _and lightsaber_, that sure as hell ain't gonna happen here.


LEG

LopEaredGaloot wrote:I think "'The Sopranos' crossed with 'Deadwood' set on Tatooine" basically says all that I could possibly laugh at here. If that's todays emo crowds' concept of 'noir', Force help us.

Did I tell you that you're fucking weird? You're the most bizarre person I've seen on this forum in a long time. No one fucking mentioned Sopranos or Deadwood here, except for you.

I love 'Star Wars' at least as much as you do. And the -way- I love it is to want it to be so much grander than this tired little fadeout is giving as a sorry sendoff.

"Fadeout?" Based on your stupid little posts, you seem hate all the main characters and think the original movie sucked ass.

You folks are so desperate for a 'hit' of the old magic that you reduce yourselves to listing what you will -accept- in a lesser form, so long as it it's something SW new.

That's like a crack addict listing the things they will eat out of a dumpster to better save money for their habit.

You're quite full of yourself, aren't you?

Until and unless society and certainly entertainment becomes less of a pissant, PC, -business-; so that the feeling of the 70's can make a revanchist, unapologetic, _militant_ comeback.

Did I tell you that you're fucking weird? That you come across as a right-wing nerd with a hardon for big macho men and militarism?

Hardass, blood and guts, EXCITING adventure where you grabbed the story by the errrrm, 'neck' with both hands and squeezed hard until it gave you what you wanted from a heroic climax.

Yeah, blood and guts, truly what SW has always been about. It's an all-ages adventure for adults and children alike. Accept it.

Which was NEVER some fucked u multicult, teddy bear cannibal, love fest.

Yeah, this franchise has surely gone downhill due to multiculturalism.

Furthermore, I think if you will all just admit it, you will realize that the reason SW is so 'popular' is because it missed out on the great ending that SHOULD have resulted from that climax with the hero triumphant instead of wussed out. The girl in the right guy's arms instead of the filthy drug smuggling lothario's. And the story truly concluded instead of half assed.

It's just too damn bad when a great legend is ended so badly that nearly 30 years later people are still waiting for (the) 'it' to come back.

You are HILARIOUS. Star Wars, a billion-dollar franchise, isn't actually popular. Everyone hates it and thinks Luke went out like a pussy, just like you. Because you say so.

Somebody else tell this guy he's nuts. I don't think I'm going to be enough.

LopEaredGaloot wrote: I think "'The Sopranos' crossed with 'Deadwood' set on Tatooine" basically says all that I could possibly laugh at here. If that's todays emo crowds' concept of 'noir', Force help us.

You are one dumb twat. In the movies, Tatooine is half Wild West and half sleazy port with gangsters, hit-men and smugglers. So of course there should be ZERO similarities between Tatooine and TV series about the Wild West and/or Gangland.

Hardass, blood and guts, EXCITING adventure where you grabbed the story by the errrrm, 'neck' with both hands and squeezed hard until it gave you what you wanted from a heroic climax.

Go beat your dick to 300 if you want that kind of crap.

Which was NEVER some fucked u multicult, teddy bear cannibal, love fest.

Yes it was and I've got the DVD to prove it.

Furthermore, I think if you will all just admit it, you will realize that the reason SW is so 'popular' is because it missed out on the great ending that SHOULD have resulted from that climax with the hero triumphant instead of wussed out. The girl in the right guy's arms instead of the filthy drug smuggling lothario's. And the story truly concluded instead of half assed.

Just because your parents were siblings is no reason for Luke to fuck his sister, you inbred peckerwood.

It's just too damn bad when a great legend is ended so badly that nearly 30 years later people are still waiting for (the) 'it' to come back.

If it ended so badly, why do you care what happens now?

Sans a great hero who can stand up to modern weapons fire with or without his character shield _and lightsaber_, that sure as hell ain't gonna happen here.


LEG

Like who?

I would write you off as a troll, but trolls usually go to the effort to write bullshit that has a kind of internal logic. You are just one dumb twat.

yep, I agree with elfy and jim. Honestly, i'm waiting for his inevitable banning. Like so many others you can just tell that his days are numbered.

@Darth Yan

Yea VERILY It'll happen and when it does we'll all be laughing at the inbred fuckwit.

And what is it with him abd underscores? That's the first that I've ever seen someone use them to convey emphasis. I mean, if only the forum had bold or italics functions, he wouldn't have to use them like that.

Question for ya, LopEaredFucktard: how long did it take for you to get used to typing one-handed? I mean, when you're giving your own opinions so much love you've gotta eventually acclimate to the effective use of lefty only, right?

Something that I would find interesting is if Stormtroopers were used less as the main enemy, and more a terrifying force in the background to fear. Example: have the main characters get into a firefight with local security forces in the course of a mission. Show them being pretty successful against said forces then throw in a line to the effect of "sir, local scanners have a squad/platoon/appropriate size of Stormtroopers inbound" and the commander of the mission immediately call a retreat because the team can't handle that kind of fight. By utilizing the Stormtroopers in such a role for a few episodes you demonstrate their lethality not by killing characters or anything, but by showing that the characters who seem competent fear combat with them and don't just accept firefights with STs as normal no matter how good they are.

It would be interesting if there was a switch in the TV show between the Imperials and the Rebels-the Imperials are fairly decent people who want to keep the peace while the Rebels are ruthless "end justify the means" fanatics who don't mind massive civilian casualties in attacks against the Imperials.

Given that it's supposed to be focusing on the common citizen or something to that effect, I'm not even sure we'll see rebels, or if the Galactic Civil War has even begun. Besides, this is Star Wars--moral ambiguity isn't a high priority. Which, despite what some people say, isn't necesserily a bad thing.

Solauren wrote:"That was a single blast from one of our Light Turbolaser cannons. In terms you can understand, that was the equal of a 200 Gigaton nuclear device, approximately 1000 times the power of the weapon you attempted to us on us. Our shields are designed to withstand several hours of continuous bombardment by dozens of weapons of that firepower level. I'm sure you'll not appriciate why your attempts are resistance are, pointless. You have 2 hours to surrender control of your planet to the Empire, or I will begin further bombardment with our HEAVY Turbolaser cannons, witch are a further 400 times more powerful."

I want to see this exact scene but with "giga" replaced with "kilo" just so I can come here afterward and see the shitstorm of the century.

It would just be dismissed as non-canon on the grounds that its overruled by the films.