Modern Day Earth vs Final Fantasy 12 armies

[Ryan Thunder]

Considering I know really little about FF XII I cannot rule out mentally handicapped either.

Presumably because you're mentally handicapped yourself. You're distorting the evidence to fit your predetermined conclusion, moron.

[Gunhead]

Considering I know really little about FF XII I cannot rule out mentally handicapped either.

Presumably because you're mentally handicapped yourself. You're distorting the evidence to fit your predetermined conclusion, moron.

Well I can see why you're the village idiot. In case you missed it, I just conceded the fact that there's something in the air of Ivalice that affect magicite engines corrosively. This is a long fucking way from all metal eating bacteria, and some in universe quotation from some ancient guru is not enough to convince me otherwise without additional proof.
Now if I'm distorting evidence, show this or shut up. Bakustra whined enough about how I'm putting unreasonable demands on him.

-Gunhead

[Star Wars 888]

Let's think about what would happen:

Sorry, I didn't specify the exact date. To be more plausible, this is Archadia from near the beginning of FF12; an Archadia being run by Larsa wouldn't do such a thing.

Costa Rica would not stand much of a chance, given that they don't have a standing army. However, iirc some Costa Rica residents still have firearms, so the occupation may still be difficult.

The rest of South America and quite frankly the world will be quite alarmed by this. Whether or not they charge in with guns blazing is not definite, but any further attempt to push past Costa Rica would be highly difficult. Further aggression would likely eventually meet foreign intervention, likely from the United States, who would also have the side benefit of getting an excuse to capture and reverse engineer FF airships.

The numbers of the Archadian and Rozarrian Empires are not clearly determined. A reasonable estimate would be that their numbers are comparable to the Roman Empire at its peak, maybe higher due to their more advanced medical capabilities. The Archadian Emipire has around 12 fleets of airships.

Upon further examination of some scenes in FF12, it appears as though the dreadnoughts actually have deflector shields capable of stopping a fighter crashing into them. This could be a problem. It's not clear if a modern day missile could get past that. EDIT: Actually, that was a pailing. Wouldn't making a hole in the airship pretty much destroy it? There's also still the tactic of boarding the ship.

However, the attack range of said ships seem to be very small compared to modern day jet fighters and SAMs, which can fire from beyond the horizon.

The speed of the ships are also not quantified, nor are their destructive capabilities.

However, there is only one dreadnought per fleet. Therefore, MOABs dropped from orbit (based on the game cutscenes the airships don't seem to fly as high as modern day planes, although that may not be their limit) could destroy their smaller ships and missiles could destroy their fighters.

As for the dreadnoughts, there are only about 12 of them. 12 nuclear missiles could do the job.

Still though, the FF12 armies stand more of a chance in the air than I initially suspected. On the ground they get their asses whooped.

However, this is assuming that their airships even work without the mist. Chances are they don't.

[Gunhead]

Without airships this whole thread is completely pointless and I for one just assume what ever gives those ships their ability to stay in the air works on earth too. But just for that.
Before going into nuke territory, there are several weapon systems earth has that out range and can sustain bombardment against a target what could be described as a flying ship.
For starters it would be nice to know how fast are these airships and what's their altitude ceiling. Flying ships is impressive as such, but not so if they're in danger from basic towed artillery pieces.

-Gunhead

[Star Wars 888]

The altitude of the airships is at most on par with that of our airplanes, at worst around first-layer-of-clouds level.

The dreadnoughts in the battles are moving rather slow, pretty much not moving much, although the fighters seem to be moving at dogfighting speed.

The airships can move fast enough to allow intercontinental transportation at a decent rate, probably within a day.




A piece of evidence against the existence of mimic germinites is that the prologue and epilogue of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 take place in what appears to be modern day Ivalice with cars and TV and such (one could speculate that this is actually set in modern day, and that Ivalice is some pre flood civilization). They could have that technology without it getting broken by mimic germinites. Maybe they were eradicated (which then begs the question of why can't we simply do the same if they invade our world). Or maybe the mimic germinites feed off of magic-tech hybrids that we see in FF12.

[Sinanju]

A piece of evidence against the existence of mimic germinites is that the prologue and epilogue of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 take place in what appears to be modern day Ivalice with cars and TV and such (one could speculate that this is actually set in modern day, and that Ivalice is some pre flood civilization). They could have that technology without it getting broken by mimic germinites. Maybe they were eradicated (which then begs the question of why can't we simply do the same if they invade our world). Or maybe the mimic germinites feed off of magic-tech hybrids that we see in FF12.

I should point out that it's never said anywhere in those two games (at least that I can recall) that their 'real world' is Ivalice. In fact they suggest the opposite, because the Ivalice that resembles the world of the other games is a fantasy-land created by somebody who plays too many JRPGs.

[Star Wars 888]

A piece of evidence against the existence of mimic germinites is that the prologue and epilogue of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 take place in what appears to be modern day Ivalice with cars and TV and such (one could speculate that this is actually set in modern day, and that Ivalice is some pre flood civilization). They could have that technology without it getting broken by mimic germinites. Maybe they were eradicated (which then begs the question of why can't we simply do the same if they invade our world). Or maybe the mimic germinites feed off of magic-tech hybrids that we see in FF12.

I should point out that it's never said anywhere in those two games (at least that I can recall) that their 'real world' is Ivalice. In fact they suggest the opposite, because the Ivalice that resembles the world of the other games is a fantasy-land created by somebody who plays too many JRPGs.

The Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Ivalice was a dream Ivalice and not the "real" one. However, in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 the main character actually travels back in time to Ivalice. However, he doesn't seem to know much about past Ivalice, implying that knowledge of ancient Ivalice was gone by the modern age of Ivalice.

[Sinanju]

The Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Ivalice was a dream Ivalice and not the "real" one. However, in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 the main character actually travels back in time to Ivalice. However, he doesn't seem to know much about past Ivalice, implying that knowledge of ancient Ivalice was gone by the modern age of Ivalice.

Luso goes back to the same fantasy world as the first game. He uses the same device to get there, and when he gets back he finds out the school librarian has also been to that same world (because he's Mewt from the first game).

[Star Wars 888]

The Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Ivalice was a dream Ivalice and not the "real" one. However, in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 the main character actually travels back in time to Ivalice. However, he doesn't seem to know much about past Ivalice, implying that knowledge of ancient Ivalice was gone by the modern age of Ivalice.

Luso goes back to the same fantasy world as the first game. He uses the same device to get there, and when he gets back he finds out the school librarian has also been to that same world (because he's Mewt from the first game).

I've played Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and iirc the Ivalice that Luso travels to is the "real" Ivalice.

[Sinanju]

I've played Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and iirc the Ivalice that Luso travels to is the "real" Ivalice.

It isn't. It's every bit as fake as the first one. Luso used the same artifact in the same way to go to the same world, so why would it be fake at one point and then real at another?

Note that nobody in the games refers to Ivalice as being the past of the world Luso/Mewt/etc. come from, as far as I remember. Not even Mewt as a grown man with a lot more education under his belt.

[Star Wars 888]

I've played Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and iirc the Ivalice that Luso travels to is the "real" Ivalice.

It isn't. It's every bit as fake as the first one. Luso used the same artifact in the same way to go to the same world, so why would it be fake at one point and then real at another?

Note that nobody in the games refers to Ivalice as being the past of the world Luso/Mewt/etc. come from, as far as I remember. Not even Mewt as a grown man with a lot more education under his belt.

Except that the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Ivalice is different from that of the other versions of Ivalice. FF12, FFTA2 and some other FF games have versions of Ivalice that appear to be the same Ivalice (for example, Vaan appears in multiple ones).

Mewt temporarily changed St. Ivalice into a fantasy world of Ivalice. Luso actually travels to a different time in Ivalice. Mewt is creating some fantasy version of Ivalice while Luso is traveling TO Ivalice.

[Darth Yoshi]

Well I can see why you're the village idiot. In case you missed it, I just conceded the fact that there's something in the air of Ivalice that affect magicite engines corrosively. This is a long fucking way from all metal eating bacteria, and some in universe quotation from some ancient guru is not enough to convince me otherwise without additional proof.
Now if I'm distorting evidence, show this or shut up. Bakustra whined enough about how I'm putting unreasonable demands on him.

-Gunhead

That's because you are making unreasonable demands. Whether or not there are in fact magical bacteria has no relevance to the plot, and as such any information about them that did exist in universe would never be seen by the party, and information about them that would be included in fluff, whether in universe or out, wouldn't be hard numbers anyway. But even assuming that the magical bacteria are a myth, a non-biological explanation for selective metal corrosion that apparently only occurs at low altitudes isn't any more reasonable, invoking magical physics that we don't know anything about either. Since we know nothing about magical physics but do know that people apparently believe in magical bacteria, then without proof that everyone in universe is wrong we accept magical bacteria by default. So the burden of proof is on you to show that everyone in universe is wrong about the magical bacteria, and your personal preferences don't count.

Mewt temporarily changed St. Ivalice into a fantasy world of Ivalice. Luso actually travels to a different time in Ivalice. Mewt is creating some fantasy version of Ivalice while Luso is traveling TO Ivalice.

What? Where do you get that? The FFTA2 book was a slider device, not a time machine. Ivalice and the "real world" are stated to be distinct from each other.

[Formless]

Since we know nothing about magical physics but do know that people apparently believe in magical bacteria, then without proof that everyone in universe is wrong we accept magical bacteria by default.

I've got no dogs in this fight, but you can apply this same argument to any number of superstitions in the real world and prove jack shit. Its basically an appeal to authority applied to the masses, the least authoritative source in the world.

[Gunhead]

Superstition in a made up world is still superstition. Even if people widely believe in it doesn't add anything to the theory's validity. Again, even if taken at face value. I'd still demand to see what do these beings eat, how fast, how widely are they spread (just so to determine how likely are they to come through any portal and so forth), the altitude where the effect stops (bugs die,go dormant for whatever reason) and how and why would our metals be affected, specially because they use material that's somehow crucial to their technology which we don't have and what seems to be the target of this corrosive effect.

This whole germ thing does have a familiar ring to it. Spontaneous generation or Equivocal generation which shortly is life from inanimate matter. No I'm no biologist, just remember reading about it after a movie I saw and going online to find out more about certain disease.

-Gunhead

[Star Wars 888]

FFTA2, FF12, Vagrant Story and FF12's spinoffs are set in the same Ivalice, and you can tell this by the familiar characters, geography and reference to eachother. In FFTA the main character specifically creates a fantasy Ivalice that is very different from the other ones.

This real Ivalice's modern era is FFTA's and FFTA2's prologue and epilogue. It seems as though magic had been completely replaced by technology. Notice that their advanced technology actually works, despite the supposed existence of these mimic germinites.

Possible explanations:

1. The residents of Ivalice managed to eradicate the mimic germinites, begging the question as to why we, with our relatively advanced anti bacteria medicine, can't do that too.

2. The mimic germinites only feed off of the magic-tech hybrid that we see in FF12.

3. The mimic germinites were eradicated by some disease.

4. The mimic germinties don't exist.

All but #3 would turn out to be positive in favor of modern day Earth.

[Imperial528]

Thinking about it, remember that picture of an oil rig Bakustra provided? I'm no materials scientist, but steel types used in making of engines and other precision parts are very similar to structural steel by composition, especially when it comes to corrosion (unless it's stainless). If these germinites ate things like engine blocks the oil rig shouldn't even exist still. And I doubt they eat the materials which make up complex electronics, since metals used in electronics are also the ones used in things such as copper or bronze cannons, or used as decoration.

So either these germinites are extremely picky eaters, or they do not eat normal metals.