New Batman Villains: Catwoman & Bane

[TOSDOC]

I blame Nemesis' script, not the actors. Hardy did the best he could with what he was given at the time, and what I saw of him in Inception was excellent. I'm sure he'll do well. I also don't think you have to look as big as a wrestler to pull off Bane--with Venom he's just as effective in his current (or Bronson) build if he's still able to toss Batman around without any help.

I'm still not certain about Catwoman, but I have confidence in the Nolan brothers that they'll pull this off.

[Tomzilla]

There's still a chance we might get Talia al Ghul in all this, right? Y'know, to bring closure to the first film? Oh well, a fan can hope.

I'm ecstatic about this news. Bane really is one of Batman's most formidable opponents. He's not only stronger than the Bat, he's just as cunning, skilled, and with enough preparation -- resourceful. It makes sense to bring Bane into the films now. Batman's friends are limited. He's the most wanted man in Gotham. The police will be chasing after him, criminals might be gunning after him to collect a bounty. Point is Batman is going to be working overtime. He'll be exhausted. In Bane's eyes, if he's anything like his comic book counterpart, this would be the perfect time to attack.

Bane's going to force Batman to rely on his brain a lot more. Which is refreshing, we really haven't seen much of this Batman's detective side.

As for Catwoman, I'm optimistic. If there's any similarity her character has to the Joker, it's the chaotic tension they bring to the story. Expect the unexpected with her. She's as mysterious and conflicted as Batman himself. So it's only natural for Batman to finally meet his match. I've always thought Selina would be Bruce's true love and the only woman he'd ever have a shot at staying with. But he's too paranoid and controlling to make it last. Perhaps the same could be said about her, too. Then again maybe there's hope for Bale's Batman. He's nowhere near as miserable as his comic book counterpart.

[JME2]

Then again maybe there's hope for Bale's Batman. He's nowhere near as miserable as his comic book counterpart.

Not yet, anyway.

It will depend on how long the time-jump is between TDK and TDKR. But I think we can agree losing Rachel and taking the fall for Harvey will have a toll on Bruce. This in turn will probably affect his management of Wayne Enterprises and hurt the company, making things worse.

[Batman]

Oh please. Other then having to abide by my decisions if and when I can actually be arsed to make one to begin with, it's Lucius who actually runs Wayne Enterprises.

An interesting aspect of Nolan me is that to him, Batman is something he wants to get over with, yesterday if he had his druthers, not a lifetime obsession. In the comics, I'd be quite likely to put Bruce Wayne on hold by having him officially abscond to the Carribean for a month or 24 so I can concentrate on my problems as Batman. Bale me can't do that, because he very much prefers to be Bruce Wayne, and really would rather go back to being Wayne 24/7, he just thinks that for the time being Gotham needs Batman. So unlike comics me, he has to balance the (not exactly low key most of the time) 'private' life of Bruce Wayne with his activities as Batman, which isn't easy at the best of times and certainly not when Batman is Public Enemy No 1. Not exactly the same dire situation as Knightfall (which was overboard if you ask me), but Rises me is definitely going to be frayed to say the least.

[Havok]

I think it is pretty clear that Bruce, does not, manage Wayne Enterprises.

As I said, I like the Bane angle and I am completely sold on Hardy. I like Catwoman. (not sure about Hathaway yet though) I hope she sees what others have done in this franchise, and really gets into the character.

I would also like to see Talia. Have her come into the city looking for Batman and falling for Bruce, not having her father's knowledge that they are one in the same. I mentioned in an earlier post that Bruce/Batman are in a place where he would be vulnerable to a romantic triangle. It would be interesting to have Talia appear, Bruce knowing who she is, her looking for Batman, while you also have Catwoman making her entrance, and Bruce thinking it is Talia, while having Selina be there, who is actually Catwoman, falling for Bats. Bruce stays close to Talia trying to figure out what she is doing, which leads her on, while he thinks that he is interacting with her unknown as Batman, thinking she is Catwoman, but that is actually Selina, who also is pursuing Bruce, not having any idea he is Batman. Cue Benny Hill right?

Seriously, I think Nolan could make it work, and with the way Bruce in the Nolan-Verse seems to long for a normal, Batman free life, he seems abnormally susceptible to something like this out of the standard variations of Bats we get.

[JME2]

Oh please. Other then having to abide by my decisions if and when I can actually be arsed to make one to begin with, it's Lucius who actually runs Wayne Enterprises.

I know, I know.

I actually kind of prefer the DCAU depiction of Wayne Enterprises, where Bruce maintained the foppish disguise, but still showed himself to a competent businessman and head of WE.

[Batman]

Oh please. Other then having to abide by my decisions if and when I can actually be arsed to make one to begin with, it's Lucius who actually runs Wayne Enterprises.

I know, I know.
I actually kind of prefer the DCAU depiction of Wayne Enterprises, where Bruce maintained the foppish disguise, but still showed himself to be a competent businessman and head of WE.

I'd say that holds true for both the comics and the Nolanverse, too. While on the surface I'm a foppish lazyboy who snores through board meetings because they're boring or tells Lucius to handle decisions 'because I don't really know anything abut this stuff, really, and besides, I'm expected at the golf court' and couldn't care less how the company is run, I'd still say that if you dig down deep enough, you'll find that while it IS Lucius who runs the company, I'm the one who tells him where to run with it, and how fast.
Nolan me DID manage to buy back his company in Begins without anybody being the wiser, afterall, and knew something was fishy about that Asian deal (IIRC the whole point of the deal going as far as it did was getting a closer look at their books) in TDK.

[JME2]

Fair points, oh pointy-eared one.

[Batman]

Was Lucius even in the Timmverse? It's been eons since I saw BTAS/TNBA and without him, they would naturally need to have me more directly involved in the running of Wayne Enterprises.

[JME2]

Was Lucius even in the Timmverse? It's been eons since I saw BTAS/TNBA and without him, they would naturally need to have me more directly involved in the running of Wayne Enterprises.

Yes, he was there and generally co-ran the company with Bruce, as I recall. He's also mentioned in Beyond.

[Batman]

Thank you, as I said it's been a while.

[Big Orange]

I'm also in the "Shinzon was an underwhelming villain because Nemesis had a rather bland script and workmanlike directing, not because Tom Hardy sucked at acting." camp, and when I saw him in Inception I didn't really recognise him as Shinzon right away but I liked his character and performance, and so did Nolan if he selected him again for the next Batman movie. I can hardly remember Bane from the early to mid 1990s animated series and so Nolan could do what he wants with this relatively obscure (to mainstream audience) comic book character. The Riddler seems a bit too much like the Joker in basic appearance (a gurning twat in a ugly suit), so was not selected, but I was mildly disappointed Nolan didn't choose somebody like Blackmask. Nolan's Selina Kyle should be more like a professional thief than Michelle Pfeiffer's neurotic S&M weirdo that was more suited to Tim Burton's surreal Batman Returns, with a pragmatic costume and low tech, homemade gadgets.

[JME2]

The Riddler seems a bit too much like the Joker in basic appearance.

Riddler would also have been too similiar M.O. wise to the clown.

Black Mask would have been interesting if done right.

[Big Orange]

A good idea for Black Mask is that he has a large company himself that is a rival to Wayne Enterprises and his public socialite image is a lot less sleazy/OTT than Bruce Wayne's.

And looking up on Bane and what he was in the appalling Batman & Robin, I could live with him being a Mexican wrestler if done right, considering what Mexico's like now, and his criminal gang that takes over Gotham could be loosely based on the Zetas, with gangmembers who are well armed enough to take on a GCPD tactical unit in a straight fight. After the Joker decapitated Gotham's underworld, there's an opening for Bane who has enough cunning and firepower to quickly seize control of the aimless criminal gangs that have collapsed into confused infighting.

[Aura]

Yeah, that wouldn't offend anyone.

[General Zod]

A good idea for Black Mask is that he has a large company himself that is a rival to Wayne Enterprises and his public socialite image is a lot less sleazy/OTT than Bruce Wayne's.

And looking up on Bane and what he was in the appalling Batman & Robin, I could live with him being a Mexican wrestler if done right, considering what Mexico's like now, and his criminal gang that takes over Gotham could be loosely based on the Zetas, with gangmembers who are well armed enough to take on a GCPD tactical unit in a straight fight. After the Joker decapitated Gotham's underworld, there's an opening for Bane who has enough cunning and firepower to quickly seize control of the aimless criminal gangs that have collapsed into confused infighting.

Bane as a Mexican Wrestler? This isn't Adam West Batman you know.

[Big Orange]

OK, Bane being a litteral Mexican wrestler is way too campy and Politically Incorrect for the Nolan verse, and come to think of it Mexican wrestling was a stupid, stupid backdrop for CSI's 200th episode.

Looking at a few clips of Bane from Batman: TAS, I'm guessing Nolan is going to make him more of an S&M themed male villain to compliment Catwoman (who was at her most kinkiest when played by Michelle Pfeiffer) and Tom Hardy played hardened convict Bronson, plus the character of Bane served time in prison as well, so it clicks together quite well.

[Rye]

Why are you guessing that? That seems to be a direction the cartoon went in, there's no evidence at all Nolan's going for that, nor any reason that he should. S&M played no serious aesthetic or thematic part in Knightfall, the quintessential Bane story, and the iteration of the character at his most realised and dangerous.

[Tomzilla]

Black Mask would have been interesting if done right.

I concur. See 'Batman: Under the Red Hood' for a more recent portrayal. He was a serious player in that surprisingly good flick.

Actually, I could see Nolan turning Sal Maroni into the Black Mask. That'd make for an interesting twist and Eric Roberts could pull it off. It'd help save writing time, too. You wouldn't have to explain to the audience who this guy is, we already know him. All you'd have to do is explain to us his motivations. That way you're giving more time development for Selina Kyle and Bane while providing another obstacle for Batman to overcome.

[JME2]

Black Mask would have been interesting if done right.

I concur. See 'Batman: Under the Red Hood' for a more recent portrayal. He was a serious player in that surprisingly good flick.

That owed a lot to Judd Winnick's characterization of Black Mask in both the script and the original storyline. In fact, Black Mask was the best part of an otherwise terrible storyline (IMO, anyway).

The key would be balancing out Romain Sinois' criminal savvy with his sadism and dark humor -- in short, not making him Joker Lite.

[Molyneux]

Black Mask would have been interesting if done right.

I concur. See 'Batman: Under the Red Hood' for a more recent portrayal. He was a serious player in that surprisingly good flick.

I'd like to contest the "surprisingly good" part. Joker's voice actor was decent, but I was really turned off by the film on the whole. Of course, that might have something to do with it being focused around the second-worst sidekick Batman's ever had.

[Galvatron]

I would also like to see Talia. Have her come into the city looking for Batman and falling for Bruce, not having her father's knowledge that they are one in the same. I mentioned in an earlier post that Bruce/Batman are in a place where he would be vulnerable to a romantic triangle. It would be interesting to have Talia appear, Bruce knowing who she is, her looking for Batman, while you also have Catwoman making her entrance, and Bruce thinking it is Talia, while having Selina be there, who is actually Catwoman, falling for Bats. Bruce stays close to Talia trying to figure out what she is doing, which leads her on, while he thinks that he is interacting with her unknown as Batman, thinking she is Catwoman, but that is actually Selina, who also is pursuing Bruce, not having any idea he is Batman. Cue Benny Hill right?

Hey, I have an idea!

[JME2]

Anything's possible.

[Big Orange]

Why are you guessing that? That seems to be a direction the cartoon went in, there's no evidence at all Nolan's going for that, nor any reason that he should. S&M played no serious aesthetic or thematic part in Knightfall, the quintessential Bane story, and the iteration of the character at his most realised and dangerous.

I doubt Nolan will go as overboard with the S&M fetishism as Tim Burton did with Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, but the rubber gimp mask and the tight latex/spandex clothing kinda gives it away:

[Batman]

Um-in our neck of the woods, tight latex is pretty much a given, and at least to me, Bane's getup said Mexican Wrestler a lot more than it did BDSM. And the only S&M aspect of Ms Pfeiffer's costume in Returns was the whip, which has been part of Catwoman pretty much since they introduced the character?