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bilateralrope wrote:What other evidence is there about transporter use on a cloaked ship ?

Star Trek 4.

biostem wrote: Why no one thought to use one of the shuttle's independent transporters to save them both is beyond me...

And this is something that isn't disallowed.

There exists an episode somewhere, and I think it's TNG and I THINK it was Ro Laren - it could be the one where the crew is taken over by aliens on a planet ... argh! what is it? They're in Ten Forward and O'Brien, Data and Troi are taken over... and they say something like "give us all transporter control" and then a few mins later "INCLUDING those in the shuttles" and it cuts to Ro Laren on the bridge hitting a console with a "FFS!" type response and riker says "it was a good idea".

Depends on the writer and how much they care, I guess.


EDIT: TNG Power Play


[Ten Forward]

O'BRIEN: Transporter controls are being transferred. Ten Forward to Bridge. I said all transporter controls. Including those aboard all your shuttlecraft.

[Bridge]

RIKER: Almost had them, Ensign. Nice try. Ten Forward. Our mistake. Remaining transporter functions are being transferred to you.

biostem wrote:Have we ever seen an example where the self destruct mechanism to a ship was disabled, and the crew resorted to trying to detonate it with a hand phaser? I mean, the Romulans were able to capture Prometheus, (that ship that could split into 3 pieces), without that happening...

Federation ships are powered by anti-matter. Which means that if it is possible to breach it with a hand phaser, the result will be a large explosion.

I also remember that in First Contact that the crew were told to be careful with shots fired near the warp core for exactly that reason.

tezunegari wrote:

biostem wrote:I'd also like to mention that in Insurrection, that holo-ship seemed to be equipped with some sort of special transporter system which would have been able to seemlessly transport the entire town over to the environment inside it, (although we never see it work for any kind of confirmation of this).

We do see the transporter in action, even the effect it causes, during the battle Ent-E vs Ruafo. The screen went white for a second and none of the bridge crew where aware of being transported. Until the sensor guy told Ruafo that there is no change in the radiation readings of the rings.

Ah! Excellent point! I forgot that part of the movie. So this demonstrates that they have the tech to do rapid multiple simultaneous transports to such a degree that those affected wouldn't even have time to react. Now imagine a cloaked transport that could sneak up on an unsuspecting vessel and use this...

Um-where do you get the multiple simultaneous transports from? And people's reaction to being transported without notice is usually 'Where the fuck are we'. What, exactly, do you think they should have done to prevent being transported?

Batman wrote:Um-where do you get the multiple simultaneous transports from? And people's reaction to being transported without notice is usually 'Where the fuck are we'. What, exactly, do you think they should have done to prevent being transported?

Just as the person I quoted pointed out, the Enterprise crew managed to transport the Son'a crew over to a holographic re-creation of their ship, without them knowing.

biostem wrote:

Batman wrote:Um-where do you get the multiple simultaneous transports from? And people's reaction to being transported without notice is usually 'Where the fuck are we'. What, exactly, do you think they should have done to prevent being transported?

Just as the person I quoted pointed out, the Enterprise crew managed to transport the Son'a crew over to a holographic re-creation of their ship, without them knowing.

Which I'm afraid doesn't do beans to address the multiple simultaneous transports aspect of my question? And since you said the transportee's 'wouldn't even have time to react' I sort of assumed you did expect them to have time to react (and presumably do something to prevent it) when at least to my knowledge the only time that ever worked was TNG's Roga Danar. Every other time if you're transported, you're transported, and if you don't want to be, sucks to be you.

Batman wrote:

biostem wrote:

Batman wrote:Um-where do you get the multiple simultaneous transports from? And people's reaction to being transported without notice is usually 'Where the fuck are we'. What, exactly, do you think they should have done to prevent being transported?

Just as the person I quoted pointed out, the Enterprise crew managed to transport the Son'a crew over to a holographic re-creation of their ship, without them knowing.

Which I'm afraid doesn't do beans to address the multiple simultaneous transports aspect of my question? And since you said the transportee's 'wouldn't even have time to react' I sort of assumed you did expect them to have time to react (and presumably do something to prevent it) when at least to my knowledge the only time that ever worked was TNG's Roga Danar. Every other time if you're transported, you're transported, and if you don't want to be, sucks to be you.

"Time to react" as in not even seeing the materialization process taking place - whereas the POV from that episode w/ Barclay seemed to imply that you *can* at least see/be aware of the initial dematerialization and subsequent rematerialization, at least in some form with standard transporters. Like, they didn't realize they had been transported, and continued to carry on like nothing had happened...

Quick interjection here but wasn't there an episode in DS9 where someone on the station had some sort of parasite or growth in his brain and Dr. Bashir beamed it out of his head without hurting him?

IIRC the good doctor beamed the damned thing directly onto a small shielded pad in the same room. Can't remember all the details sorry.

gigabytelord wrote:Quick interjection here but wasn't there an episode in DS9 where someone on the station had some sort of parasite or growth in his brain and Dr. Bashir beamed it out of his head without hurting him?

IIRC the good doctor beamed the damned thing directly onto a small shielded pad in the same room. Can't remember all the details sorry.

And in TNG I believe they can disarm a person while in transport. Things you can do in a transporter buffer.

A few other observations and a question mixed in:

When that Vidiian scientist split B'Elanna into distinct Klingon and human halves, did that involve a transporter?

To beam a transwarp coil out of a Borg sphere, the Voyager crew had to disable internal shielding with small bombs and place a beacon directly onto the coil to nab it.

Singular Intellect was proper to correct me, oh, about a week ago: maybe the Borg can beam ships into their holding bay. Shuttlecraft, at least, seeing as how the E-E beamed that Scorpion attack ship aboard in "Nemesis."

One more question: was this topic inspired by a "Breaking Bad" character's meth-fueled pitch for a Star Trek episode?

seanrobertson wrote: One more question: was this topic inspired by a "Breaking Bad" character's meth-fueled pitch for a Star Trek episode?

Sadly, no to this question. It was more based on a rant I had w/ a friend about how stupid characters in many shows are, in that they don't use the resources at hand in any sort of creative way. We ended up agreeing that it was "necessary stupidity" in order to not have most plots resolved in about 5 minutes...

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

bilateralrope wrote:What other evidence is there about transporter use on a cloaked ship ?

Star Trek 4.

TNG "Unification": A Klingon BOP orbiting Romulus is able to transport Picard and Data back and forth without being detected.

seanrobertson wrote:A few other observations and a question mixed in:

When that Vidiian scientist split B'Elanna into distinct Klingon and human halves, did that involve a transporter?

How he accomplished that trick wasn't explained, AFAIK.

seanrobertson wrote:To beam a transwarp coil out of a Borg sphere, the Voyager crew had to disable internal shielding with small bombs and place a beacon directly onto the coil to nab it.

Which indicates some kind of interference with obtaining a transporter lock. They needed to "tag" the target, much like the Son'a needed tags in ST:I.

Ted C wrote:

seanrobertson wrote:A few other observations and a question mixed in:

When that Vidiian scientist split B'Elanna into distinct Klingon and human halves, did that involve a transporter?

How he accomplished that trick wasn't explained, AFAIK.

seanrobertson wrote:To beam a transwarp coil out of a Borg sphere, the Voyager crew had to disable internal shielding with small bombs and place a beacon directly onto the coil to nab it.

Which indicates some kind of interference with obtaining a transporter lock. They needed to "tag" the target, much like the Son'a needed tags in ST:I.

Your second point, IMO, kinda touches on one of my original points of confusion about transporters in general - even with a tag, how does the transporter determine where the transwarp coil begins, and the rest of the assembly ends? Does the tag convey some sort of mass or volume reading back to the transporter system? If I used a tag on a person's shirt, could I choose to beam away the whole person, just their shirt, or even just their torso?

biostem wrote:

Ted C wrote:

seanrobertson wrote:To beam a transwarp coil out of a Borg sphere, the Voyager crew had to disable internal shielding with small bombs and place a beacon directly onto the coil to nab it.

Which indicates some kind of interference with obtaining a transporter lock. They needed to "tag" the target, much like the Son'a needed tags in ST:I.

Your second point, IMO, kinda touches on one of my original points of confusion about transporters in general - even with a tag, how does the transporter determine where the transwarp coil begins, and the rest of the assembly ends? Does the tag convey some sort of mass or volume reading back to the transporter system? If I used a tag on a person's shirt, could I choose to beam away the whole person, just their shirt, or even just their torso?

Presumably the same way that it beamed Roga Danar out of his little shuttle without beaming up the pilot's seat, console, and assorted other matter in the cockpit. My hypothesis is that the "transporter effect" envelopes a target based on some kind of boundary condition that the field follows. That's why they can beam up things that they can't see (or can't see clearly) with their sensors: they don't need to see it, they just need to know where it is. A "transport inhibitor" somehow obscures the target's location, so they can't get a lock. "Pattern enhancers", "isolinear tags", transporter armbands, and working (friendly) communicators can all help a transporter lock on to the target's location.