StarDestroyer.Net BBS

If you take the British Isles does the Eastsaxon empire still exist? Or do her colonies just wander off and do their own thing? I would like us to take the British Isles, but we also need something resembling a strong opponent to keep it interesting.

I'm also behind the conquer Siberia idea. After that we can start working our way south into Mongolia and China.

Intentionally aid your enemies, use subsidies/alliances to unify GB, India, and to get the Manchu or another worthwhile power to take China.

Borgholio wrote:So you can pick pretty much any empire you want, not just the Romans or whomever you import from CKII?

Here is a list of the playable countries.

What happens if I try and port over my Scandinavian empire (using the old gods, reformed pagan religion etc.)?

It works, but not that great with regard to culture and religious aspects.

This said, is it just me or does this game look a lot less fun to play than CKII?

Purple wrote:This said, is it just me or does this game look a lot less fun to play than CKII?

It seems that way because it deals less with individual things (like character stories) but more with the personifications of nations.

Gandalf wrote:

Borgholio wrote:So you can pick pretty much any empire you want, not just the Romans or whomever you import from CKII?

Here is a list of the playable countries.

Huh. I think it would be hilariously fun to pick one of the poorest African countries and try to build up the continent to levels that had only been previously found in major empires like Egypt or Rome. See if a united African empire can stand to the same level as the European and Asian civilizations.

I'll join those who have supported the idea of letting some of the other powers develop into effective rivals. It'll be boring if we lack rivals of an appropriate strength.

Borgholio wrote:Huh. I think it would be hilariously fun to pick one of the poorest African countries and try to build up the continent to levels that had only been previously found in major empires like Egypt or Rome. See if a united African empire can stand to the same level as the European and Asian civilizations.

True. It would certainly have the potential for some amusingly ironic situations.

Purple wrote:This said, is it just me or does this game look a lot less fun to play than CKII?

I think part of the problem is this game of EUIV was won before it was even started due to the overwhelming power accumulated in CKII. Individually, the European powers dominated much of the world during that time frame despite frequent squabbles amongst themselves. Having them united under one banner is like a chess game where you have multiple queens and your opponents only have pawns.

Borgholio wrote:

Gandalf wrote:

Borgholio wrote:So you can pick pretty much any empire you want, not just the Romans or whomever you import from CKII?

Here is a list of the playable countries.

Huh. I think it would be hilariously fun to pick one of the poorest African countries and try to build up the continent to levels that had only been previously found in major empires like Egypt or Rome. See if a united African empire can stand to the same level as the European and Asian civilizations.

I've got a CKII game where I started off in Mali and conquered Muslim Spain and western Europe so you can certainly build a viable powerbase . If you started there and continued on with the expanded Africa in play in EUIV you might be able to pull that off.

TheHammer wrote: I've got a CKII game where I started off in Mali and conquered Muslim Spain and western Europe so you can certainly build a viable powerbase . If you started there and continued on with the expanded Africa in play in EUIV you might be able to pull that off.

It's doable is you start as a West African power in EUIV. You just need to border one of the provinces that Spain or Portugal colonizes, then immediately westernize as soon as they get a core on their colony (and before they can turn it into a trade company). You should be able to westernize before 1500, then use to tech advantage to wafflestomp the continent.

An age of war


While we are busy building up our colonies in Siberia, we decided to expand into the Indian coast. The princes there were largely Sunnis, ripe for the taking.

The Malwan Army tried to stand its ground, but was easily routed.

Six rich coastal provinces were added to the empire.

During the war, our technology increased.


With the capture of the coastal provinces, we were able to found an Imperial Indian Trade Company.

I am sure it will never be a symbol of corruption and oppression. I mean, free trade is good, right?

Speaking of free trade....weastsaxe had now discovered the triangle trade, selling slaves to their colonies in Mexico in return for gold and other valuable goods to be sold in Westsaxon London. This would not do. We therefore needed to take coastal African provinces, slave-trading ones at that, to keep up with them.

What a coincidence - a heathen African nation to the west of us.

We put ten legions against them. The result was a foregone conclusion and resulted in the addition of the Gambian provinces to the Empire.

Our experiences allowed us to increase our knowledge of artillery.

Better cannons? Good to have.


Especially when it comes to securing more provinces in India again.

Multan surrendered easily. Once again, instead of annexing all of them, we decided to limit ourselves so as not to overextend.


Hot Chocolate. Yummy.


We increased our quality ideas....


...and supported Baroque music.


Meanwhile, in North America:

Our conquistador is incompetent again, fearing a monster of the lake:

...thankfully, our Indian trade route is not dependent on his incompetence in America.


So, no gold, but maps. Meh.

Then again, the mapped lands are rather large. So maybe he is not a total waste of resources?
http://i.imgur.com/jD9MW3s.png
Yep, incompentent. Won't somebody rid us of this idiot?

...well, I guess that will do. We hired another one and told him to keep looking for the seven cities.


Why does the flintlock musket result in better cavalry shock? I mean, are our Reiters using the muskets to bash the heads in while they are charging?

Merchantmen, the favourite targets of pirates everywhere, are now the standard merchant vessel in the Empire. The Westsaxons better not get any ideas...

Woohoo, Universities. Wait, we already got over 12 of them. Somebody dun goofed (this is the result of the game having some provinces have the historical universities before one can build them, like Bologna. It is sensible, but OTOH really funny.)

Then again, this allowed us to establish sunday schools for everybody across the whole Empire. The first stop on the way to unversal education. Hooray.

It also allowed us another idea. We choose administration, for our country is getting large and needs a good administration.

Copper bottoms. Get yer copper bottoms here.

We will always favour our peasants over the nobility. After all, a colonial nobility could decide to demand independence.

Nevertheless, with the conquests we previously made fully integrated, it was time to look to the far east.


From "A History of Roman China", by Julius Zhou, Colonia Nankingia, 1999:
"The first areas of dispute between the Ming Empire and the Roman Empire look rather strange to modern eyes, but to the two nations they were of paramount importance. Ever since the Ilkhanate invasion of the 13th century, the raison d'être of the Roman Empire had been to conquer all of the Steppe people. The Mongols and Manchus being protected by the Ming Empire were the last of those. For the Ming Empire, having a foreign power intrude on what they viewed as their zone of influence was unacceptable. Another reason was religion. Both Empires claimed to enjoy divine favor. Both Emperors claimed to be legitimized by a higher power. Thus, the stage was set for the Son of Heaven versus the Holy Roman Emperor.

Even today, it is unclear whether the Romans realized the true power of China or whether they, having defeated every other empire in History and having outlasted their ancient enemies. Nevertheless, on 23rd February 1609, the Roman Empire declared a crusade against Ming and their Allies, the Empire of Japan as well as the Ming vassals of the Manchu tribes of Jiangzhou and the Tribes of Mongolia.

The Romans had not been idle. They had brought their legions to double-strength, expecting a long campaign. It was the greatest single Professional army in Roman History, an Army that had crushed the Persians, Golden Horde, Timurids, Oirat and Khazakhs before. Now they looked to add the Ming Empire to that list.

A total of 16 legions, each 28.000 men strong, were marching South."

(to be continued below)

(continued from above)


From "A History of Roman China", by Julius Zhou, Colonia Nankingia, 1999:
"If the Ming were surprised by the Roman advance, they lost no time in responding to it. It quickly became clear that despite their good intel about the cities of the Ming Empire, the Romans were very misinformed in their estimate of the Empire's strength.

Soon, armies of 104.000 men as well as a 36.000 strong contingent of Mongol cavalry were sighted.

In Liangzhou, the Legio I Germania was the first to draw blood when it was engaged by 70.000 Chinese soldiers, led by the Son of Heaven Shouqian I himself. It soon became clear that the Chinese army was favouring massed artillery, whereas the Roman legions trusted in their infantry.

In many ways this battle was also completely ordinary, for the margin of 2:1 in favour of the Ming dynasty was one that was the same in all battles in the Chinese campaign. Against this superiority in Artillery and numbers the Romans set their pike and musket squares and their iron drill and discipline.

Nevertheless, the I Germania suffered greatly and had lost about half her infantry when on the seventh day of battle the Legio IV Scythica arrived and reinforced the lines. There are few forces in history who suffered the casualties that Germania's infantry did and kept fighting in good order instead of breaking, but the Squares of the cohorts held.

The tables turned when the Legio III Liberatrix arrived. Faced with the might of three Golden Eagles, the Chinese took increasingly heavy casualties...



...casualties that were compounded when the Roman Cavalry broke through their lines to slaughter their massed artillery...

Eventually, the son a Heaven himself fled the battlefield to save his life, leaving his honour behind.

Though the Romans took heavier casualties overall, the Chinese army had to retreat all the way to Shanghai before it managed to restore some semblance of order.

During the war, the Emperor died and was succeeded by his son.

A second, much larger battle was fought in Baoding. Here, five legions attacked the newly arrived Central Ming Army, and in a battle of 70k vs 160k troops...

....utterly routed the Ming forces.


The son of heaven, reinforced by his Japanese Samurai allies, tried to save his capital Beijing...

..but again, Roman discipline prevailed against Chinese numbers.

A similar setback for the Ming happened at Axla.

After four years of fighting, the situation was this:


In 1615, Roman legions conquered Beijing.

Beijing was the first Eastern city which - as Bardas II himself admitted - deserved to be compared to Rome, Venice, Florence, Constantinople, Trier, Alexandria and Carthage. The plunder and slaves taken from that city were a major reason why Chinese culture became - like the Egyptian one after 44 B.C. - a fad in Roman Europe.

The remains of the Northern Ming Army were caught near Chengde and completely destroyed.

After settling some affairs in Rome, the new Emperor had traveled to the East to take command of his legions. In Hejian, the Legio I Germania, now commanded by the Emperor Bardas II., was once again engaged by the army of the Ming Emperor Shouqian I.

This battle, often called "The Battle of Heaven", was again won by the soldiers of the Legio I Germania and the Varangian Guard.


In January 1516, both sides had enough of the slaughter. The Ming Army was faced with a peasant uprising in the South and had lost the capital, with the gods making their will known though the battle of Hejian. Rome meanwhile had lost interest in further bloodshed as well, as it had clearly underestimated the massive capacity of the Ming Empire to just throw masses of soldiers after soldiers. Had it not been for the Roman discipline and ability to quickly reinforce attacked legions, the campaign would have been an utter disaster.

In the First treaty of Beijing, Ming ceded five of the northern provinces as well as all of Mongolia over to the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire had hoped for more - especially access to the chinaware-producing provinces, but realized that it was better to take a few swaths of worthless desert and Mongolia than to continue to waste manpower in futile battles. After all, to the Roman High Command it seemed that if you cut the head of one Ming Army, two more would rise to take its place. After the treaty was signed, both sides claimed victory and the Legions returned to the North, to pacify the new Mongolian territories."


Meanwhile in the New World:

More Fish to make garum out of.


Yes, let's chase this pipedream.


....excuse me while I throw up.


The new Conquistador is much more competent than the old one.

In Europe, Pommerania was integrated:


Meanwhile, the Jewish Saxons of Eastsaxe are at it again - this time Genociding the Incas.


The Roman Empire and its neighbours, the Conquest of Siberia now complete:

The New World:


Look at all that charted land in North America....wait, what's happening in Mexico?


....Uh....okay.

So what happened is that apparently the two colonial nations got into a huge war after the last Mayan city was taken over by the Eastsaxons of Mexico. Roman Mexico declared war on them (curiously none of the two colonial nations called for their overlords to intervene...) and due to their much stronger population base....

Soon annexed Eastsaxon Mexico and started a purge of the Eastsaxon settlers, as well as mass converting the Jews to Orthodoxy.
Oh boy.

The date.


TL, DR:
- There was an epic six-year war with Ming which was a lot of fun (read: nervously sweating if the one legion would hold out until the neighbouring units would arrive)
- Ming is a fucking tough enemy and has already westernized. I can't imagine any ordinary EUIV country would have much success against them. The troop numbers they pump out are simply unreal. Which makes waging war against them so much fun.
- The story does not show it, but fighting against the Ming were six years of gametime (read: 2 hours real time) of constant reinforcing, maneuvring etc. It is the most fun I have had with EU IV so far.
- Westernized Songhay in Africa is taking over the continent.
- Eastsaxons are genociding the Incas, whereas Eastsaxon Mexico was genocided by Roman Colonial Mexico. Faaaaantastic. Not sure if I can act against their conquest of the Incas, though I really want to. Maybe they will slow down a bit by themselves....let's monitor the situation there.
- North America is still largely untouched.

The size of the empire blows my mind. And man do those Mings give one helluva fight. Looks like it'll take you so long to subjugate them that the saxons will be ready for you when you turn your attention to them

The Ming certainly were merciless, seems like they'll wind up being the final hold out making their territory a meatgrinder.

I wonder how the Eastsaxon AI is going to react to losing it's Mexico holdings (if the rogue war on both fronts is an indication, likely nothing.)

Eastsaxon and Lothian are grinding each other down for decades now, apparently Lothian has now decided to expand into colonies as well to tip the tide. That said, so far the Eastsaxons are gaining ground against Lothian.

Is there something particularly special about the date? I did a bit of cursory checking and didn't find anything major that happened then...

Though asking does make me feel a little silly

Nah, just to show people where we at timewise.

Any ideas about the next update, Herr Emperor? I wanna see you stab some more Chinese people
(This week in "Out-of-context Theatre...)

Probably not until the end of the week, I am neck deep in lectures right now. This week I have to give 18 hours of lectures alone.

TheHammer wrote:I think part of the problem is this game of EUIV was won before it was even started due to the overwhelming power accumulated in CKII. Individually, the European powers dominated much of the world during that time frame despite frequent squabbles amongst themselves. Having them united under one banner is like a chess game where you have multiple queens and your opponents only have pawns.

Not really. It's definitely what Thanas said. The game just has a different feel. After playing a short game at a friends house I can say that whilst CK feels like you are a person trying to change the world EU pretty much feels like you are an administrator going along for the ride. You don't make things happen. Things just happen to you and you have to try and work against them. And that feels less exciting overall.

Ways old and new


We increased the tariffs on our colony, for taxation without representation is the way we treat our colonies. Plus, they are suspect to us due to their large quantity of Eastsaxon immigrants.


ADVICE? I AM EMPEROR BARDAS II THANAS AND THUS ABOVE HELP.

A single country of Sunni primitives in Africa....surrounded by our troops.

I wonder how that tale could possibly end?

With this conquest, our appetite for African lands was sated...for now.


Meanwhile, in the new world....

...a city built out of gemstones is a hoax. Whoever saw that coming?

But don't worry, there is another legend for us to chase. What could go ever wrong by expending blood and treasure on this? Coming generations will definitely not laugh at this.

We increased our military ideas.


"You, Sir, are a fool."

HIRE HIM. Anybody is better than the previous fool, good riddance, may he have died a slow and painful death.
Besides, we don't discriminate on skin colour.

Now, go explore inner North America, my black conquistador.
[insert joke about the Midwest living in fear of black invaders to this day here]


Gallop cavalry and leather cannons. Love the first, hate the second, because they were a huge failure historically (though Paradox keeps praising them as great innovations, guess that swedish pride is showing).

"We shall attack in a mass of cavalry, with swords drawn, and through our charge cut down all opposition".

...no comment.

In India, the Empire set its sights on Gujarat, the rich country controlling Kutch.

They were allied with the largest power of the Indian subcontinent, Bahmanis.

No matter. We fear no-one.

As expected, our army first crushed all opposition...

...including a force sent by Bahmanis to relieve its allies.

However, Bahmanis soon retaliated. As soon as it had gathered its forces, 63k attacked a single legion of ours.

The Legio XV Primigenia gained great honours that day for they held out for several days against such a force...

...until help in the shape of another legion arrived....

...and the two legions, though outnumbered 4:1, swept the field of the Indian attackers.

Given that the Bahmanis had fielded twice the number of infantry and four times the artillery, this decisive defeat caused them to sue for peace.

We grabbed 2/3 of Gujarat.

Our technology increased:


We also increased our administrative ideas:


Our trade ties with China led to the popularization of silk fabrics:


Meanwhile, in the new world, Quivira turned out to be another hoax.

Who could have seen that coming?

Though we did manage to map most of the wild north.
I think the game is telling me something, for so far our black conquistador, our native explorers and administrators have been far better at this than the European guys I hired.
This led to a wave of settlers seeking new lifes in our colonies:

It was time to explore the South:

Yes, yes, do so.

Terra incognita. Soon to be Terra cognita.

Meanwhile, thanks to their genocide of the Incas, PERFIDIOUS EASTSAXE snatched a reward I had long been angling for:

RRRRARAARAAAAARGGGHHHH.

(to be continued)

(continued from above)


Indeed, let's use tropical woods. The forests there are endless, right?


Sadly, no gold was found.


I know, it is quite the shocker.

Thankfully, there was soon a more realistic target:

Yes, pay the idiot. WAIT, HOW MUCH? THAT IS FIVE MONTHS OF STATE INCOME.
"And this, kids, is how I became the richest man in the world.

Meanwhile, our East Asia Squadron conquered half of Indonesia:


In the Empire proper, it had been decided that the former double-size legions would now be considered the standard size due to improvements in logistics and manpower.

A new legion was formed from Bohemia.

The war for Hessen

From "Der hässliche Hessische Krieg", by Octavius von Berg, Augusta Treverorum 1845:
"The Roman Empire had previously laid claim to Westphalia and Hesse. Now the legions were crossing the border again, ready to enforce that claim, while the Roman Navy started blockading the Saxon ports."

"Near Ansbach, two Roman legions fell upon the Saxon siege train, which was only protected by a half-hearted screen of infantry...

...and savaged it hard, destroying over three quarters of the Saxon artillery."

"Near Heligoland, the Roman Atlantic Fleet intercepted and destroyed the Saxon Navy as the later ventured out to raid Roman convoys to Roman Sweden"
"However, the Saxons recovered quickly."

"Near Oberpfalz, their main Western Army met the Legio VI Victrix in battle. Soon, reinforcements led by the Emperor Bardas II Thanas himself arrived."

"But the Saxons had more troops available to reinforce."

"The Battle of Oberpfalz proved that the Saxons were the hardest and most determined enemies Rome had ever faced. Their discipline was almost a match for Roman discipline, whereas their morale was higher than that of the Romans. They also enjoyed the advantage of having much larger field artillery than the Roman force."

"On the thirtieth day of the battle - for this was both the largest and bloodiest battle to date - the Saxons were reinforced by the whole Samogitian Army. But the Romans were reinforced by another two full legions, who had followed the Samogitian army."

"It was then that the Roman cavalry performed their finest deed in the whole war. Realizing their numerical advantage, they pressed through a gap in the enemy lines created by concentrated fire of the Roman mass batteries and hacked through the Saxon artillery."


The battle of Oberpfalz - or "Opferpfalz", as it was colloquially known for a short time due to the battle - was over. "

However, this did not mean that Saxony was finished. Far from it. Three months after this battle, the Romans had to fend off an attack at Würzberg.

And half a year after that - and with the Romans being bogged down by the great Saxon fortresses - the Saxons combined theirs and the armies of their Samogitian allies and attacked at Ansbach.


Again, the Saxons trusted in their massed artillery, the Romans in their massed cavalry. For a short time, the Saxons had as much artillery as infantry on the battlefield.

Yet again, the Roman mass battery was able to somewhat counter this disadvantage due to the invention of the mass battery concentration tactic and in the end, a cavalry charge once again broke through.



The Saxons again did not give give up, but attempted another attack through Bohemia.

Despite being at a numerical disadvantage, their stubborn soldiers refused to surrender and caused equal casualties to the Roman Army.

However, at this point, the Samogitian allies of the Saxons had enough. Due to using their troops to bolster the Saxon Armies, they had lost any ability to respond to the Roman Eastern Armies pressing on their homeland. In the end, their whole country was occupied and Bardas II Thanas used this opportunity to style himself as a great liberator and ordered the release of the nation of Lithuania.


Lithuania just happened to take nearly all of Samogitian territory.

In the west - and with the collapse of Samogitia - the Roman Army pressed on...

...and on.

In the end, the Saxons had to surrender all of Hesse and Westphalia, including the great trade centre of Frankfurt am Main.

Rome was victorious - again."

Lithuania was so grateful about being released that they became our vassals:


We had gathered up so many administrative points that we managed to take two ideas at once:



Sadly, my beloved daughter and heir died....how will I ever get over it?

Oh, a hot girl. That will do.

And thus, on March 30th, 1632


..the future Empress Anastasia was born.

(End of this part)
TL, DR:
- Whew. The game really makes war challenging and fun if you wage war against greater powers.
- My refusal to genocide the incas cost me the first circumnavigation of the world. Oh well, I'll learn to live with it (PERFIDIOUS EASTSAXE).

So given how few people have commented - I am thinking of changing this a bit up. For example, I have somehow lost interest in describing wars as the end result of any war is almost always a given nowadays. So I would like to just save space/time and show the before/after of a war.

Thanas wrote:So given how few people have commented - I am thinking of changing this a bit up. For example, I have somehow lost interest in describing wars as the end result of any war is almost always a given nowadays. So I would like to just save space/time and show the before/after of a war.

The narrative quality of this playthrough's been excellent since the beginning of the Crusader Kings campaign, I've just been enthusiastically waiting for any new events/developments in-game to be posted. This playthrough's been a joy to see much more than the ones on the paradox forums in all honesty, especially with all the details.