StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Thanas wrote:I have carried similar loads for day.

And I can't physically lift 25kg and walk around with it unless you give me a wheelbarrow. And I imagine your average overweight underexploited middle age guy probably can't either.

But in the end, you should trust the reenactors who actually practice for hours in those things. They manage it just fine.

I do. Sort of. I've seen plenty of people on youtube and read plenty of accounts and they all basically say the same thing. Reasonably comfortable, easy to carry and fight in for a while. But stuffy, hot and generally not something you wear 24/7. But I actually know a person who does reenacting. Not sure if he has full plate but if not he probably does know someone that does. I'll go ask him and inform my self better before I continue with this conversation.

Well, it is hot and stuffy. But the weight issue....I mean, c'mon, 15-25 kgs distributed all over your body isn't that bad.

There's a big difference between carrying a 25kg bag of potatoes and having 25kg of gear distributed across your body.

The Vortex Empire wrote:There's a big difference between carrying a 25kg bag of potatoes and having 25kg of gear distributed across your body.

This. It may all weight 25kg in a bundle, but when you realize that you're talking about a *lot* of discrete parts distributed all over the body...

Here are a few examples gathered from a merchandise site:

Deepeeka brand (India made) Gothic sallet helmet
5 lbs 9 oz, ~2.5 kg. This being the helmet, naturally you want it a little heavy. Deepeeka makes mostly re-enactment wear, not actual sparring wear, and the site doesn't state what gauge the helmet is made of but it's likely fairly light-- 16 or 18 gauge. This is not too far from historic norms, but modern standards tend to prefer heavier gauges like 14 or even 12.

16ga steel greaves
3lbs 8oz each, ~1.5 kg, per leg

16ga steel gauntlets
1lb ~5 oz each. A little over half a kilo.

This is all, by the way, suspended more or less individually by its form to one's body. It doesn't all depend from one's shoulders or waist, the weight is distributed fairly well around the entire body. You can even swim in it. This is in contrast to modern kit, where soldiers have to wear ~20-30 kg of equipment in a backpack and on their upper body (and often their body armour isn't part of that load, so you have to add that weight as well).

Purple wrote:I do. Sort of. I've seen plenty of people on youtube and read plenty of accounts and they all basically say the same thing. Reasonably comfortable, easy to carry and fight in for a while. But stuffy, hot and generally not something you wear 24/7. But I actually know a person who does reenacting. Not sure if he has full plate but if not he probably does know someone that does. I'll go ask him and inform my self better before I continue with this conversation.

In the context of armor as business wear, air-conditioned offices will probably make the issue of heat a non-factor. As for being stuff or hard to type in, I'd imagine opening visors and taking off gloves, would be seen the same way as loosening one's tie. Taking off a helmet would be like taking off a jacket. You'd put these things back on before a meeting with the boss, but you probably wouldn't work fully buttoned up.

Jub wrote:

Purple wrote:I do. Sort of. I've seen plenty of people on youtube and read plenty of accounts and they all basically say the same thing. Reasonably comfortable, easy to carry and fight in for a while. But stuffy, hot and generally not something you wear 24/7. But I actually know a person who does reenacting. Not sure if he has full plate but if not he probably does know someone that does. I'll go ask him and inform my self better before I continue with this conversation.

In the context of armor as business wear, air-conditioned offices will probably make the issue of heat a non-factor. As for being stuff or hard to type in, I'd imagine opening visors and taking off gloves, would be seen the same way as loosening one's tie. Taking off a helmet would be like taking off a jacket. You'd put these things back on before a meeting with the boss, but you probably wouldn't work fully buttoned up.

depening on the model of armor taking off the gloves can a quite complicated though at least for the Samurai armors I've seen the lower arm protection and glove and a single unit that's strapped to your lower arm (and with a flexible part on the wrist) and I remember seeing European armors with similar basic design.

Lord Revan wrote:depening on the model of armor taking off the gloves can a quite complicated though at least for the Samurai armors I've seen the lower arm protection and glove and a single unit that's strapped to your lower arm (and with a flexible part on the wrist) and I remember seeing European armors with similar basic design.

I'd expect that to be a solved problem when it comes to mass produced armor-cum-business wear. It wouldn't be hard to make a quick release for gauntlets while still allowing them to look almost right. Of course, more formal armor probably wouldn't have this feature just like a Walmart dress shirt usually forgoes cufflinks for buttons.

I can't contact the person I need until tomorrow. Until than I'll only say three things:

1. I know how the weight of armor is distributed. At least I do for European armor. I've basically watched a series of videos where a guy goes into great detail about how the armor pieces connect to one another and the arming garments underneath for this role. And I imagine that the Japanese probably did something similar. But that does not change the fact that it's heavy. How many people do you know would agree to wear 1/4 to 1/3 of their body weight (depending on their weight and the armor in question) in fashion accessories even if it's not a huge problem to do so?

2. How do you solve the problem of not being able to put it on and take it off without help?

3. You really should NOT be looking at making this heavy gauge and protective and stuff. If it's a fashion thing than protection is not only not a requirement but is flat out negative as it adds to the weight without contributing anything. Just make it stiff enough that it does not dent when you accidentally bump into something.

Yes, I was going with cheap plasics = brittle chinese toy plastic. The moment you use plastic that is robust enough, you'd be more expensive than stamped steel.

And I personally know people who were wearing full plate for hours, outside, in summer, and were active while doing so. If needed, you could wear them all day.

The English prior to the battle of Agincourt wore their suits for days, and did sometimes even sleep in armor, for fear of being ambushed. You usually did not, but not so much for comfort, but for the old steel did rust pretty quickly when not greased and stowed away in even mildly humid weather. With the weather during that time, when the battle finally was joined at Agincourt, the English were rusty brown instead of shiny silver.

With modern stainless or stain-resistant steel, and modern coatings and care products, this isn't an issue.

You might even crome-plate the whole thing, to become the essence of *bling*.

Purple wrote:

The Vortex Empire wrote:

Titan Uranus wrote:If you want to wear armor as everyday clothing, chainmail is going to be the most comfortable type, outside of winter in any case.

Not really, chainmail puts all the weight onto your shoulders, plate armor is much more evenly distributed.

IIRC you are supposed to wear chain with a belt so that the weight does not sit on your shoulders but your waist.

I don't know where you got THAT information. Chain mail shirts are supported fully by the shoulders. All the chain shirts I've worn have also been somewhat form-fitted. The way the links are connected allows it to mold to your shape, so it's not hanging free. Thus, there's no need for a belt to 'support' it... the belt's there to hold your weapon.

Now, if you're talking chain *Leggings*, then yes, you need a belt to support those.

Not so much for the usual shirt-sized maille, but it does help if you are wearing a proper mid-thigh or almost knee lenght, though. The belt helps with these - the 'skirt' below it isn't supported by the shoulder, anymore, but by the belt clamping it at your waist. It does make a lot of difference for those.

Random, but good picture - see how it even warps above the belt - the whole section below is certainly not hanging from the shoulder...