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No, you said "It doesn't sound too difficult." People are going to read that as "this is a thing that is not difficult to do."

If you meant to express that heavy construction with heavy machinery is not easy, I submit that you should have worded things differently.

The problem is that neither are those things can be described as "easy".

Construction is hard work. It can get complicated with large, complex structures. Digging a hole is simple but not easy. Mining, refining, digging and creating everything needed to make a concrete tunnel to your description is beyond a single human's capability, even given time.

Creating robots and AI (two separate things) is an even larger undertaking and is just as impossible to make as the insane tunnel you talked about. You do realize that there are no such robots now, in present-day Earth with people and infrastructure to actually make them?
Never mind it being built by one person from scratch, even if it was someone like Starglider who actually writes AI for a living, because I doubt even he is going to make a computer from scratch while surviving in this place, never mind more advanced technology than the 21st century.

The only being that I can think of that could be capable of even contemplating of doing things like that is a Pak protector, provided they get their necessary fruit and are tweaked to remove the descended-protection instinct. But that would be altering the scenario substantially. Also, there would be no point for them to build the stupid thing in the first place, something you still haven't explained why it would even occur to someone in that situation. In a Pak Protector's case, they would make an enclosed paradise-environment for their breeders and probably exterminate all predators that could threaten them.

Simon_Jester wrote:No, you said "It doesn't sound too difficult." People are going to read that as "this is a thing that is not difficult to do."

If you meant to express that heavy construction with heavy machinery is not easy, I submit that you should have worded things differently.

But it is easy! It is very easy compared with rounding up all the materials from scratch (mining copper and gold etc from ground) and turning said materials into electrical components and then creating machines to turn components into extremely complicated circuits and then programming all those circuits, building an actual machine for the computers to go inside of, and then wiring everything up and repeating much of this process 10+ times.

Zixinus wrote:The problem is that neither are those things can be described as "easy".

Construction is hard work. It can get complicated with large, complex structures. Digging a hole is simple but not easy. Mining, refining, digging and creating everything needed to make a concrete tunnel to your description is beyond a single human's capability, even given time.

Creating robots and AI (two separate things) is an even larger undertaking and is just as impossible to make as the insane tunnel you talked about. You do realize that there are no such robots now, in present-day Earth with people and infrastructure to actually make them?
Never mind it being built by one person from scratch, even if it was someone like Starglider who actually writes AI for a living, because I doubt even he is going to make a computer from scratch while surviving in this place, never mind more advanced technology than the 21st century.

The only being that I can think of that could be capable of even contemplating of doing things like that is a Pak protector, provided they get their necessary fruit and are tweaked to remove the descended-protection instinct. But that would be altering the scenario substantially. Also, there would be no point for them to build the stupid thing in the first place, something you still haven't explained why it would even occur to someone in that situation. In a Pak Protector's case, they would make an enclosed paradise-environment for their breeders and probably exterminate all predators that could threaten them.

How is creating a automated digging machine with semi-auto learning AI from literally nothing except the dirt on the ground and the minerals beneath the ground just as difficult as digging a really massive hole and filling it with paste? I mean, isn't that what most house-builders do, just dig a big hole and fill it with glue, wait a few days and then put things on the covered hole?

There would be a little math to figure it out at first, but after you've done it a few times, you would probably get the hang of it and be able to dig and construct small tunnels relatively easily.

Well, wouldn't most people in that situation be encouraged to build something massive for the future descendants of that world? For when the fish and birds turn into intelligent creatures, or when aliens come in spaceships and land on the planet, they can see all the fabulous structures that the previous civilizations have created, only to realise that all this was created by a single being. They would probably be quite impressed.

As for it being impossible, how? If a human can create a small concrete tunnel maybe a few meters long, then there is no reason why they could not create a massive tunnel thousands of kilometers long and hundreds wide, given the time, resources and space.

I am quite certain that modern-day earth could easily produce a bunch of digging machines if they wanted to. I see no reason why they could not. It is just a large truck with mining drills attached to the front and a computer that scans the surrounding area for a certain resource and then attempts to drill into that resource and either cancels that action if it is impossible or continues until it breaks down.

Archinist... can I please have some of what you're smoking?

Just reading the initial scenario and have a question: Why? Why do this? What happens if we succeed this scenario? What happens if we fail?

Okay, at this point you are either a kid, incredibly sheltered to the point you are practically are a kid, really this stupid or just trolling us.

If you are the first, sorry for being mean but you really are ignorant of everything you are talking about and acting thick on top of it. You are messing up basic stuff you either already have or will learn in school.

If you are the second, you need to get out more and need to explore stuff outside your usual sphere because your perspective has warped very far out of any kind of normal look for the world.

If you are the third, yes you are and know you have been treated pretty mildly compared to board average.

If you are the fourth, bravo sir. Well done.

How is creating a automated digging machine with semi-auto learning AI from literally nothing except the dirt on the ground and the minerals beneath the ground just as difficult as digging a really massive hole and filling it with paste?

Because you are not just digging holes and filling them with paste. You are creating the paste. You are mining the various materials that are components of the paste and refining all of them (likely each and all a several-step process). You are learning how to create proper paste from scratch and vague guidance on books. Vague because it never occurred to anyone to write a book how to rebuild 21st century technology completely from scratch and alone in the wilderness. You have to shape the paste to create structurally sound frames unto which you make your concrete tunnels.
In other words, you are not just doing the job of one person in a construction yard, but every job of the construction yard and also every job present in the infrastructure to make the construction job possible in the first place.

Also, you have to clear the area you plan to build your impossible tunnel in the first place, which can be an incredible amount of work for one person to do, even for small stretches. You are talking about clearing out a forest and flattening the land by hand, alone. Never mind doing it enough to span the globe around twice. Have you considered that? How is someone supposed to build your insane mega-project concrete tunnel over a swamp? Or over the ocean? Or trough mountains and canyons?

I mean, isn't that what most house-builders do, just dig a big hole and fill it with glue, wait a few days and then put things on the covered hole?

Only with toy houses on toy terrain, like with miniatures. Do you really think that is how real houses are built?

Well, wouldn't most people in that situation be encouraged to build something massive for the future descendants of that world?

What descendants??? In your scenario there is only one person on the entire planet!

For when the fish and birds turn into intelligent creatures, or when aliens come in spaceships and land on the planet, they can see all the fabulous structures that the previous civilizations have created, only to realise that all this was created by a single being. They would probably be quite impressed.

Please tell me you are trolling us and you are not this fucking stupid.

Even if there is a potential species near sapiens somewhere on the world, it would take millions of years for them to evolve to full sapiens and even then, many thousands of years until they develop a civilization that would even recognize the structures in question.

By which point, everything you worked for has been destroyed by entropy. Your impossible concrete tunnel megaproject would have collapsed from myriad of environmental factors that plaque every constructed object since the dawn of time. Even satellites will degrade and die after enough time, being constantly damaged by cosmic radiation and space debris. Even your bullshit-tech starting shelter would have been overgrown, flooded, buried or caved in.

As for it being impossible, how?

It has been explained to you, over and over again why. You assume everyone is a superhuman and are completely and utterly ignorant about the practically of everything you propose. You refuse to listen to every explanation I have patiently written to you or by anyone else.

I see no reason why they could not.

That is because you confuse your ignorance ,and lack of imagination, with knowledge. As well as confusing technical possibility with practical viability. You clearly know absolutely fuck-all about even the basics of construction, survival, infrastructure of technology, basic physics or even how people work. You have no idea what universe-worth of problems are there because you don't know about them and fail to imagine them altogether. Then you have the arrogance that you are in any way able to make any sort of reasonable judgment.

I am honestly believing you are sincerely confusing playing a sandbox survival game and reality. That is the only way your scenario would even look sane. Because yes, building a pointless concrete tunnel and spaceship in a video game is viable given enough time. Which is possible because video games like these are designed to accommodate stuff like this. The real world isn't.

Zixinus wrote:Okay, at this point you are either a kid, incredibly sheltered to the point you are practically are a kid, really this stupid or just trolling us.

Or possibly autistic, I know someone who would come up with stuff like this and is autism-spectrum. Not saying that out of malice, either - if Archinist is we should be gentler.

How is creating a automated digging machine with semi-auto learning AI from literally nothing except the dirt on the ground and the minerals beneath the ground just as difficult as digging a really massive hole and filling it with paste?

This is really apples to oranges. One is *extremely* complex and probably impossible for any one person to accomplish on their own given any timescale, though given guaranteed infinite time anything is possible I suppose. The other is extremely labor intensive and would take a long time for one person, and though it might be possible, it'd take so long as to make no sense. Personally, I'd rather walk around the world than build a tunnel I have no real use for.

The other thing to consider here is maintenance - doing it yourself, large sections are going to fail or have problems before you can complete much of the thing. Even built well and to a reasonable standard in today's tech, tunnels need maintenance on a scale one person cannot possibly deliver. And to build a world-girding tunnel would require maintenance on a scale an army of people might not be able to deliver.

I mean, isn't that what most house-builders do, just dig a big hole and fill it with glue, wait a few days and then put things on the covered hole?

Only with toy houses on toy terrain, like with miniatures. Do you really think that is how real houses are built?

There's a little more complexity than that (running pipes & conduits, placing rebar), but essentially that is all you do for a slab foundation.

But pouring a slab and building on it is nothing like tunnel building. If you want a channel or road, you might find more similarities.

Oh, and we do have, today - in modern times, automated tunnel-digging machines. They're called TBM's, and require a small army of people to keep operational. One got stuck under Seattle and had to be excavated by several hundred (thousand?) people over a year or so because it hit something it wasn't designed to cope with. That one moves 35'/day.

At that rate, building a tunnel around an earth-sized object would take ... (25,000 miles * 5280 ft/mile) / (35'/day) = 3,771,428 days / (365 days/year) = 10,332 years.

And another report says that they've logged 1,200,000 man-hours of work to get a few thousand feet, not including building the TBM. The TBM, which, at $80,000,000 probably equates to another 2-8 million man-hours. All that is also not including discounts in the number of man-hours required for readily available products that automation, globalization, and an industrial base provide - things like steel, concrete, food, transit, etc. etc. As late as the 1900's, some 90% of the workforce was still farming, so doing it totally by yourself I'd think it'd be safe to assume a 99.9% inefficiency rate to take care of other stuff and just multiply all the hours required by 1000.

So for building a tunnel around the world, your time is going to be the limiting factor, not the machine's. Let's call it (1,200,000 man-hours * 1000 (inefficiency)) 1,200,000,000 man-hours*66,000 (which is, 25,000 miles * 5,280 ft/mile/2,000 ft/man-hours) = 79,200,000,000,000 man-hours (27,123,287,671 work-years) plus the time for building the TBM, and gathering all the materials that are used in the tunnel. But at this point, that doesn't even matter, we're talking 27 billion years to just accomplish this task.

Me2005 wrote:

Zixinus wrote:Okay, at this point you are either a kid, incredibly sheltered to the point you are practically are a kid, really this stupid or just trolling us.

Or possibly autistic, I know someone who would come up with stuff like this and is autism-spectrum. Not saying that out of malice, either - if Archinist is we should be gentler.

Speaking as an autistic person, go fuck yourself. You don't get to hold me to a, "gentler," standard. I'll play hardball with the best.

Raw Shark wrote:

Me2005 wrote:

Zixinus wrote:Okay, at this point you are either a kid, incredibly sheltered to the point you are practically are a kid, really this stupid or just trolling us.

Or possibly autistic, I know someone who would come up with stuff like this and is autism-spectrum. Not saying that out of malice, either - if Archinist is we should be gentler.

Speaking as an autistic person, go fuck yourself. You don't get to hold me to a, "gentler," standard. I'll play hardball with the best.

*Raises hand* - Yeah, the person I know who is is my brother, and I've very likely got a (much, much) milder form of what he has. In his case, during a discussion like this he wouldn't even realize people that were mocking him. Archinist's posts remind me very much of how he thinks/talks; though it could just as easily be a little kid.