A possible way for the UFP to be a problem to the Empire

[Solauren]

Have to wonder something.

Let's say the Federation had warning of the Empire coming and got this tech working, and it affected the Empire the way they all preyed

Would the Empire be willing to leave Starfleet and the UFP alone (and absorb them later by peaceful means) in exchange for this technology?

I mean, think about it.

An ISD with this added on, if it bypassed planetary shields, would kinda negate the need for the Death Star. Just invertor down some Seismic Charges near the shield generators, and tell the planetary government to surrender all prepare to be BDZ'd

[Traceroute]

That's just crazy talk

Besides, why bother? All the Imperials would have to do is capture one of the ships with this technology, then jump far enough away that the Feds can't do anything while they analyze it. Considering the lack of redundancy on Fed ships, it would only take one well placed Storm Trooper fart to disable the damn thing.

[Ted C]

I find an immediate problem with your theory based on the use of a game to support the idea a nuclear weapon will destroy the Star Destroyer.

Not saying it won't, just that I personally would like to see a more reputable source used.

I don't see how you can reasonably expect an ISD to survive any reasonably large nuclear release inside its hull. Any energy you turn loose in there is going to have to either escape the ship or turn into work (like melted bulkheads), and I don't see any reason to think that an ISD has mechanisms built into it for redirecting large quantities of energy released at arbitrary locations inside the ship.

I'd say this is a basic truth about any SF warship; they may be able to easily repel hundreds of megatons directed at them from the outside, but even a few kilotons on the inside will do extensive damage if not outright destroy them.

[Solauren]

Is there any canon evidence, not conjecture, that an ISD has a heavily armored interior?

To me, one doesn't make sense. That would put to much mass on the ship and affect performance.

Oh, and with the 'it can take 200 gigaton recoil', if its firing an energy weapon, which be definition is massless, please explain the recoil.

[YT300000]

Is there any canon evidence, not conjecture, that an ISD has a heavily armored interior?

To me, one doesn't make sense. That would put to much mass on the ship and affect performance.

Oh, and with the 'it can take 200 gigaton recoil', if its firing an energy weapon, which be definition is massless, please explain the recoil.

I can't explain the recoil. By TLs do recoil when they fire. Which means than an ISD must be able to withstand those forces at the areas the TLs are stationed. In other places though, it probably can't take those forces.

[Traceroute]

There's more than one theory about what precisely a TL bolt is, but it is certainly not massless.

We're talking about energies orders of magnitude higher than anything we can create today. Photons do have mass, and enough of them would cause recoil.

If the TL bolts are something like contained plasma, then they most definitely do have appreciable mass, in addition to the energy imparted when they are shot.

That, and enough energy will equal a small amount of mass. e=mc^2 cuts both ways - in the early twentieth century, astronomers were expecting to find a 10th planet, Vulcan, inside the orbit of Mercury. But it was later discovered the orbital perturbations of Mercury from this supposed 10th planet were caused the sheer amount of energy emitted by the sun.

[Solauren]

Oh well. In any event, I'm sure a big internal explosion would blow a Star Destroyer apart. I base this on evidence from a video game, sure, but at least it was a 'movie cut scence'.

So, in conclusion, if the Federation got a brain cell and used this technology, and it worked (very unlikely followed by 50/50 chance), how well do you think they would do in ship to ship engagements? I'm assuming the also build and have something like this on all there planets to prevent orbital assaults. (I'm surprised they don't already with the recent Borg and Dominion problems)

Would the Empire consider them too worthless for the territory involved to conquer them? Would they try to get the tech (the thought of a Star Destroyer going that is terrifying....), or would they launch an all out assault and just 'swallow' the damage.

[Striderteen]

I find an immediate problem with your theory based on the use of a game to support the idea a nuclear weapon will destroy the Star Destroyer.

Not saying it won't, just that I personally would like to see a more reputable source used.

I don't see how you can reasonably expect an ISD to survive any reasonably large nuclear release inside its hull. Any energy you turn loose in there is going to have to either escape the ship or turn into work (like melted bulkheads), and I don't see any reason to think that an ISD has mechanisms built into it for redirecting large quantities of energy released at arbitrary locations inside the ship.

I'd say this is a basic truth about any SF warship; they may be able to easily repel hundreds of megatons directed at them from the outside, but even a few kilotons on the inside will do extensive damage if not outright destroy them.

In the Crimson Empire comics, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer Emperor's Revenge was destroyed by a bomb Kir Kanos left in his stolen TIE Scimitar bomber. They tractored it into the hangar bay and an assault team opened it up only to find a maintenance droid counting down...

"Oh NO."

BOOOOM!

[YT300000]

In the Crimson Empire comics, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer Emperor's Revenge was destroyed by a bomb Kir Kanos left in his stolen TIE Scimitar bomber. They tractored it into the hangar bay and an assault team opened it up only to find a maintenance droid counting down...

"Oh NO."

BOOOOM!

Crimson Empire is a bad example. In it, a shot from a blaster pistol flew right through the transparisteel viewport of a Tie. In one of the movies (RotJ I think) a Tie took a shot to this same viewport from a blaster cannon, and the port held.

[Traceroute]

There has to be some armor inside vessel, at least enough to make it defensible, and be able to withstand battle damage. I think we can all agree that the blast doors we see all over the place inside an ISD are reasonably armored, well enough to withstand fairly heavy blaster fire. But this isn't a Fed ship ... I think imp engineers probably understand that there's no point in an armored door if the surrounding structure isn't armored as well.

Since blasters are hand held TLs, we're talking about some damn sturdy doors.

That's not to say that a 300 MT nuke wouldn't crisp a few decks, but those blast doors are most likely designed to contain damage from sabotage, attempts at unauthorized access to sensitive areas, etc.

[Ghost Rider]

In the Crimson Empire comics, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer Emperor's Revenge was destroyed by a bomb Kir Kanos left in his stolen TIE Scimitar bomber. They tractored it into the hangar bay and an assault team opened it up only to find a maintenance droid counting down...

"Oh NO."

BOOOOM!

Crimson Empire is a bad example. In it, a shot from a blaster pistol flew right through the transparisteel viewport of a Tie. In one of the movies (RotJ I think) a Tie took a shot to this same viewport from a blaster cannon, and the port held.

But it is official

The only problem is that

A. Kir Kanos' gun was NOT a standard side arm since no other sidearm ever did what his did as well as he was one of the Imperial Royal Guard.

B. They never defined the level of the bomb. For all we know it could be 500PT bomb he had in there.

[Striderteen]

In the Crimson Empire comics, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer Emperor's Revenge was destroyed by a bomb Kir Kanos left in his stolen TIE Scimitar bomber. They tractored it into the hangar bay and an assault team opened it up only to find a maintenance droid counting down...

"Oh NO."

BOOOOM!

Crimson Empire is a bad example. In it, a shot from a blaster pistol flew right through the transparisteel viewport of a Tie. In one of the movies (RotJ I think) a Tie took a shot to this same viewport from a blaster cannon, and the port held.

But it is official

The only problem is that

A. Kir Kanos' gun was NOT a standard side arm since no other sidearm ever did what his did as well as he was one of the Imperial Royal Guard.

B. They never defined the level of the bomb. For all we know it could be 500PT bomb he had in there.

A. Kanos borrowed that blaster from one of the Rebels he was with at the time; hence, it could not possibly have been some kind of custom Royal Guard uber-blaster.

B. Not unless Kanos is in the habit of carrying 500PT gombs in his pockets, which is quite unlikely -- he had to leave on short enough notice that he stole a TIE Scimitar instead of taking his own ship.

[Ghost Rider]

1. Proof? In issue #3 he shows that his costume has a holster, plus it also amply demostrates that at no point he asks for a gun at any point in that time span. In issue #1 he holds the EXACT same style of pistol...it's his gun.

Offical has proven in Wraith squadron that no hand held pistol should.

You are saying that in an off panel conversation or exchange, Rebels/New Republic members have in a remote region of space, pistols capable of piercing TIE windows.

I'm saying that the disruptor(which in this book is style of the gun used by the IRG)is capable.

2. We do not know what the explosive power of the bomb since there was no mention of it, but we do know how it takes to destroy a ISD. I made the 500Pt as no true amount but as a generalization because aside from issue #5 where we see the explosion and the aftermath we have no clue of the size of the bomb being used in terms of explosive power.

[Vexx]

You wouldnt need a 500pt bomb to destroy it most likely. I mean, a much smaller explosion inside would probably cause secondary explosions, which would be the ones destroying the ship.

And I don't see why the Federation would win.. it all implies on them knowing the Empire is coming, suddenly growing brains, suddenly making a change of pace.

Say the Empire was coming with a fleet of 10 ISDs and fighter/bomber compliment. The Feds send a fleet of, let's say, 100 ships to intercept this. Fed policy dictates that they wait until they're being fired upon to fight back, they'd sit there trying to communicate, "This is Captain Mustard of the Starship New York Hotdog Stand.. you have entered the border of the United Federation of plane-" BOOM BASH EXPLODE THEY'RE DEAD, KILLED BY 10 ISDS FIRING HUNDREDS OF TL SHOTS BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN BLINK. Any ships that do survive manage to shoot off a few torpedos before being destroyed. Others turn tail and retreat. Fight over. The Federation is absolutely incapable of fighting the kind of warfare that the Empire is in regularly. Even if we ignore the 300gt heavy turbolaser figure and put TLs as the same strength as phasers and torpedoes, the simple fact that each SD has enough guns on it to equal 50 GCS's would mean slaughter for the Feds.

The Feds would lose no matter what. They're only capable of unleashing the power of perhaps 3 phaser strips and at most 10 torpedo tubes on a single target at any given moment. The ISDs can do 50 times that much, even if both sides had equal strength weapons.

[Solauren]

Vexx.

I was trying to suggestion a TACTIC. Now say the Federation would win in a war.

Yes, the Federation would need some kind of warning the Empire was coming (like the Empire hit the Dominion first, and slowly expanded towards the Federation, fortifying captured worlds and powers before getting to the Federation) and that they needed to change tactics.

However, for this, let's assume (otherwise, it's pointless), that they DID have some warning. THAT's the idea. 'Could this work'. Not "would they", it's "COULD they"

[LT.Hit-Man]

I know a better way for the Feds to avoid having there heads handed to them by the Empire.
Wave a realy big white flag bfor the Empire blasts them in atoms

[Drach]

I like how someone else put it, all Star Trek needs to do to win..whip out the handbook; 1001 Uses For a Deflector Dish

[Phyre]

Rebuild the DS, and use the Hyperdrive to show up in the Fed's territory.... See how long they last then!

[Solauren]

Umm, thread Hijackers, I was trying to be serious. Go play in a joke thread

[Striderteen]

1. Proof? In issue #3 he shows that his costume has a holster, plus it also amply demostrates that at no point he asks for a gun at any point in that time span. In issue #1 he holds the EXACT same style of pistol...it's his gun.

Offical has proven in Wraith squadron that no hand held pistol should.

You are saying that in an off panel conversation or exchange, Rebels/New Republic members have in a remote region of space, pistols capable of piercing TIE windows.

I'm saying that the disruptor(which in this book is style of the gun used by the IRG)is capable.

It's stated in the audiobook version of Crimson Empire:

MIRITH: We've got to take down that Interceptor.
SADEET: But how? All I've got is my hand blaster!
KANOS: Give it to me.

[Howedar]

In one of the movies (RotJ I think) a Tie took a shot to this same viewport from a blaster cannon, and the port held.

When?

[Ghost Rider]

1. Proof? In issue #3 he shows that his costume has a holster, plus it also amply demostrates that at no point he asks for a gun at any point in that time span. In issue #1 he holds the EXACT same style of pistol...it's his gun.

Offical has proven in Wraith squadron that no hand held pistol should.

You are saying that in an off panel conversation or exchange, Rebels/New Republic members have in a remote region of space, pistols capable of piercing TIE windows.

I'm saying that the disruptor(which in this book is style of the gun used by the IRG)is capable.

It's stated in the audiobook version of Crimson Empire:

MIRITH: We've got to take down that Interceptor.
SADEET: But how? All I've got is my hand blaster!
KANOS: Give it to me.

I doubt the audio has higher standing then the original material.

So unless Dark Horse has annouced the Audio books hold more water then their comics, the comic stands. There was no interaction with Sadeet, Mirith, nor Kanos about his gun.

[Striderteen]

But does the audio directly *contradict* the text, or does it simply expand upon it? In the former case we should reject it; in the latter, it stands.

[Ghost Rider]

It contradicts it.

Kanos' gun being uniquely a part of his arsenal is partially supported by Warith Squadron where in two members of said Squadron ducked into a TIE Cockpit to avoid multiple blaster fire. It was even noted that regular gun should not penetrate said cockpit.

2. In CE they made sure that Kanos' gun was different as well as his own. In every panel they made certain that his pistol/disruptor was a specfic design and his own, no NR agent, nor Imperial soldier carried the same design and the only other time anyone was seen carrying a similar design was in Issue 4 where they showed the slaughter of the Imperial Guard.

[YT300000]

In one of the movies (RotJ I think) a Tie took a shot to this same viewport from a blaster cannon, and the port held.

When?

I don't know, it was somewhere in the background.

I never saw it, but I read it somewhere on Saxton's site (good luck finding it).