Posted: 2002-09-24 01:55pm
Proof? For either one of your assumptions that is.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Whatever the output or amount of SW turbolasers, the fact remains that they are lasers and Federation sheilds can stop all lasers.
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Proof? For either one of your assumptions that is.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Whatever the output or amount of SW turbolasers, the fact remains that they are lasers and Federation sheilds can stop all lasers.
Names aren't indicative of anything, it can just as easily be a colloquial term.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Because they are called lasers, and Lucas obviously intended for them to be lasers since he called them that.
No, I saw that episode, he just said that their lasers couldn't penetrate it, not that all laser everywhere, regardless of power could.And Federation shields can stop all lasers because Riker said so in one of the episodes.
And I suppose federation shields would stop an atom laser too, wouldnt they, just because its called a laser?U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Because they are called lasers, and Lucas obviously intended for them to be lasers since he called them that.
And Federation shields can stop all lasers because Riker said so in one of the episodes.
So Riker, who knows JS about Wars capabilities, was automatically referring to Wars lasers as well?U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Whatever the output or amount of SW turbolasers, the fact remains that they are lasers and Federation sheilds can stop all lasers.
Lucas also used parsecs as a measure of time. Clearly he does not know a lot about physics and just went with what sounded cool.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Because they are called lasers, and Lucas obviously intended for them to be lasers since he called them that.
And Federation shields can stop all lasers because Riker said so in one of the episodes.
There are a few, just not many soup snadwiches like you.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:A fellow Trek fan?
I didn't think there were any here.
As was the lasers, but if he is going only by literal reading of the movies, i will defeat him with literal reading of the movies.TheDarkling wrote:The Parsec thing was solved ages ago...
Thats essentially what I am saying. No source I am aware of (and as some of you know, my collection is rather extensive) ever mentioned the ISD having LTLs, and the 60 (or 180) TL turrets mentioned were never specified as being LIGHT (except in relation to the big 50 meter turrets.) You could probably get away with calling them LTLs, but then you could also call them MTLs or just turbolasers... It just seems to cause confusion.His Divine Shadow wrote:Connor, if the designation LTL is incorrect, and Laser-cannon should be used, should we then say the small laser-cannons are not turbolasers but laser cannons?
Sort of. They apparently have similar natures (what they are), properties,a nd such. THe only real differences occur in power level, method of generation (and this largely seems to differ only in the complexity of the generation, much as a superlaser differs from TLs), range/cohesiveness, and fire rate. Traditionally, I've always thought of TLs as being the "one big shot with a slower rate of fire" guns (think battleship cannons, or tank guns, or artillery) whereas laser cannons were more high rate of fire and low individual shot damage weapons (machine guns, gatling guns, vulcan cannons, etc.) Of course, the flexibility in output and ROF demonstrated in the NJO series demonstrates that this isn't an absolute distinction (it can blur some), but thats generally the main differences.Because we know that laser-cannons and turbolasers are two distinct weapons based on the same tech.
Another possibility. As I pointed out to Ossus, while we know at least two kinds of TL exist on an ISD, its also quite probable that there are differnt "grades" of laser cannon, ion cannon, possibly even other forms of weaponry on an ISD. We don't know what the axial defense guns are (laser or TL or ion?) and we know there ARE two heavy ion turrets, as well as two quad laser turrets as well.Or maybe the small guns are not turbolasers?
You know this used to be fun...newbie would come in...maek outrageous claim that was defeated long ago...they would be flamed..eventually they would wise up. However lately it seem that everywhere I go there are ignorant newbies all of whom really deserve a good braodside of reality.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Because they are called lasers, and Lucas obviously intended for them to be lasers since he called them that.
And Federation shields can stop all lasers because Riker said so in one of the episodes.
Your stupidity and ignorance are exceeded only by DarkStar, and potentially by Berman and Braga. You clearly have not even read the rest of the website, so I will give you a very brief explanation for why you are wrong.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Whatever the output or amount of SW turbolasers, the fact remains that they are lasers and Federation sheilds can stop all lasers.
Maybe you could just keep that saved as a text file, and C&P it into a reply the next time this idiotic laser argument comes up.Master of Ossus wrote:Your stupidity and ignorance are exceeded only by DarkStar, and potentially by Berman and Braga. You clearly have not even read the rest of the website, so I will give you a very brief explanation for why you are wrong.U.S.S. Enterprise wrote:Whatever the output or amount of SW turbolasers, the fact remains that they are lasers and Federation sheilds can stop all lasers.
1. The energy weapons in SW (often termed "lasers") are clearly not lasers. They do not behave anything like the lasers that we have today. Clearly, the word "laser" is a colloquial term used in SW that does not actually mean "laser" in our terminology. Their weapons are clearly different, as is CLEARLY demonstrated both in canon, and explained in the EU as being completely different from the lasers that we have. The same goes for the superlaser.
2. ST ships are not immune to laser fire, anyway. High-power lasers can slice through Federation shields and damage the ship itself (ref. Suddenly Human, Loud as a Whisper, Q Who?). The statements in "The Outrageous Okona" clearly were in reference to those particular, low power weapons.
Someone should do that. If it comes up again pretty quickly then I'll just look up this post and then C&P it in.RedImperator wrote: Maybe you could just keep that saved as a text file, and C&P it into a reply the next time this idiotic laser argument comes up.
While the quote does show that, on the screenplay, the intention was clear we unfortunately ahve to deal with the fact that Riker's line in the episode is "lasers those won't..." Basically the screenplay makes the quote's intent clear but the actual epsiode has it different so Trekkies will always try to pour it on.EmperorMing wrote:I think you also may want this info:
Quote:
The Outrageous Okona
WORF: Captain, they have locked lasers.
PICARD: Lasers?
RIKER: Regulations call for a Yellow Alert.
PICARD: It's too small of a craft to be of any threat to us. Do you agree, Lieutenant Worf?
WORF: That won't even penetrate our navigational deflector.
This proves that it's not the fact that the enemy are equipped with lasers, it's the small size of the hostile craft that is the issue (the original script even said 'phasers', instead of 'lasers').
Personally I'll take 15.8 TT since it exceeds what any dozen ST ships can realistically bring to bear against an ISD excepting, possibly, Borg or S8472.Mr Bean wrote: So 15.8 Teratons BARE MINIUM ASSUMING ONE VOLLY
Now to use the shall we shall insanley likley fact that there was more than one volly and instead as some suggest the ISDs kindly lined up and waited till Wedge shot a few times before attacking and those vollys where between 5-14 and we will use five places more reasonsable low end figures
15.8x5=79 Teratons which we will round to 80 Teratons
So 80 Teratons feel free to use this as established calcuated minium low end assuming SW every disadvantage...
Truly it does, though we could always bother to remember that LTLs should be included in this and they ought to add a gigaton or two here and there which could make a difference after a few volleys.Mr Bean wrote:Still its quite a nice minium number no?
Anyway I decided to incudle the one volly figures with updated to incudled the bare minium due an unamed posters insistance
I just decided to add back in the MTLs that I had taken away
Anyway it gives nicer figures anyway