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Symbol of Athens, the first democracy.

Athens was really more of an imperial oligarchy than a true democracy. Thebes would probably be closer.

You're probably right, but it was the first thing that came to mind. *shrugs*

The Aliens wrote:I'm going to have to say Pioneer 10, it's (IIRC) the first interstellar spacecraft, and has all those pictures on the side saying who us humans are and where you can reach us. It's the farthest man-made object from us now, and is probably going to still be going when we've blown ourselves up.

Incorrect, Voyager 1 has overtaken Pioneer 10 sometime in 2002, Voyager 1 is on a quicker trajectory.

Voyager also has a gold record which can be played and carries something like 18 minutes of audio greetings and various sounds from earth, as well as engraved diagrams of our solar system's planets, and atanomical diagrams of male and female homo sapiens

I pick Voyger 2. Even after humanity is lost in oblivion Voyger 2 will still be there. The same can not be said of the moon plaque. There could a major war in the solar system centuries in the future that could destroy it.

HemlockGrey wrote:

Symbol of Athens, the first democracy.

Athens was really more of an imperial oligarchy than a true democracy. Thebes would probably be closer.

Thebes as in Egypt?

Thebes as in Egypt?

Thebes as in the city on the Boetian plains. Destroyed by Alexander.

I'd have to say the Sphinx, if you consider when it was made.

Frank Hipper wrote:Well, it'll take more than 10,000 years for the Pyramids to erode to nothing, barring major climatic changes.
They get my vote for most indestructable.

There are no first drafts of the bible, so that doesn't count.

Khufu's funerary barge found next to the Great Pyramid is the oldest ship in the world, and aside from reconstructed stitching, is more original than either USS Constitution or HMS Victory, and has several thousand years on them to boot. Whether it's the greatest or not, I dunno, but it should definetly rate on the list.

However, I'm going with Voyager 2, also, as the Big One. It's man-made, and on it's way to interstellar space.

What about Noah's ark? There are Sat. pics of it frozen in Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

The one I think that may still be around and is important would have to be the Ark of the Covenant. Laws of God would be damn important...

I still pick Pioneer 10 as it was the first interstellar spacecraft launched by man, even though I've been informed that it was recently overtaken.

Lt. Dan wrote:
What about Noah's ark? There are Sat. pics of it frozen in Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

I seriously doubt that. There has never been any empirical evidence for the existance of Noahs ark (because such a vessel couldn't exist as stated for one thing), and no one, not even biblical scholars can agree as to it's exact size or shape, so there's no way a set of pictures could be ID'ed as Noah's ark.

evilcat4000 wrote:I pick Voyger 2. Even after humanity is lost in oblivion Voyger 2 will still be there.

Yeah, but it's gonna come back to Earth as V'ger and destroy us all!

Rob Wilson wrote:

Lt. Dan wrote:
What about Noah's ark? There are Sat. pics of it frozen in Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

I seriously doubt that. There has never been any empirical evidence for the existance of Noahs ark (because such a vessel couldn't exist as stated for one thing), and no one, not even biblical scholars can agree as to it's exact size or shape, so there's no way a set of pictures could be ID'ed as Noah's ark.

Well, now-a-days there are mistakes in converting measurments, so I'm guessing that there is going to be some mistakes in converting measurments that are a couple thousand years old into the systems we have today. What else could it be? What other giant ship landed in those mountains? I'd like to hear you views on that. Well there is no pics of dinosaurs but the discovery channel not only puts skin tones on them but also gives them behavior.

aerius wrote:

evilcat4000 wrote:I pick Voyger 2. Even after humanity is lost in oblivion Voyger 2 will still be there.

Yeah, but it's gonna come back to Earth as V'ger and destroy us all!

Don't worry Kirk will get it in touch with its feminine side, and sex it into submission.

Lt. Dan wrote:Well, now-a-days there are mistakes in converting measurments, so I'm guessing that there is going to be some mistakes in converting measurments that are a couple thousand years old into the systems we have today. What else could it be? What other giant ship landed in those mountains? I'd like to hear you views on that. Well there is no pics of dinosaurs but the discovery channel not only puts skin tones on them but also gives them behavior.

Well, for the color scheme, it's speculation based on climate and environment. Not sure about the behavior, though.

How do you know that V'ger even has a feminine side? For all you know, it could be butch.

Lt. Dan wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote:

Lt. Dan wrote:
What about Noah's ark? There are Sat. pics of it frozen in Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

I seriously doubt that. There has never been any empirical evidence for the existance of Noahs ark (because such a vessel couldn't exist as stated for one thing), and no one, not even biblical scholars can agree as to it's exact size or shape, so there's no way a set of pictures could be ID'ed as Noah's ark.

Well, now-a-days there are mistakes in converting measurments, so I'm guessing that there is going to be some mistakes in converting measurments that are a couple thousand years old into the systems we have today. What else could it be? What other giant ship landed in those mountains? I'd like to hear you views on that. Well there is no pics of dinosaurs but the discovery channel not only puts skin tones on them but also gives them behavior.

Because there is actual physical evidence for them. People have dug up and handled the bones, we can compare structures with those of modern animals and make an educted guess based on over a century of proper scientific research.

Your first fallacy is automatically ascribing the structure (if it is a structure) to being a boat/ship.
You're second is saying that the only ship in the world it could be (if it is indeed a ship) is the ark (for which there is no scientific evidence for its existance).
Your third is taking the measurements in the bible as being solid as no one can agree what a cubit actually is.

However no wooden boat ever built can be longer than 300 ft as the central support spar (its spine) will splinter and snap under the ships weight and torsion. And a 300ft long boat could not carry the animals and their supplies for the duration of Noah's journey.

Darth Yoshi wrote: How do you know that V'ger even has a feminine side? For all you know, it could be butch.

Because that's exactly what he did. The probe in the shape of Khambala, that fell for Decker after Kirk did his 'importance of human emotions' thing.

Rob Wilson wrote: However no wooden boat ever built can be longer than 300 ft as the central support spar (its spine) will splinter and snap under the ships weight and torsion. And a 300ft long boat could not carry the animals and their supplies for the duration of Noah's journey.

And while you're working on that, perhaps you can tell me how the ship stayed afloat when the two Elephants alone needed 60-100 gallons of fresh water per day... that's 371 days (according to Creationist Henry Morris) x 60 gallons per day (we'll be generous) = 22,260 Gallons (US) of fresh water, just for the Elephants. Add to that the food they require for 2 elephants (lets make them small and scrawny so 2 tons each) 200lbs of fresh food per day x 371 = 74,200 lbs of food (which must somehow be kept fresh for a year in cramped and mold-enducing conditions). Just on elephants alone Noah's Ark has lost 121 tons (yes I know, mixed measurements, but do the maths yourself - it's 121,920kg so I've actually rounded down there) of displacement that's going to be at least 1/4 her maximum cargo displacement, so after the Hippo's Rhino's and Buffallo's everyone else is fucked.

I'd say the CSS Hunley or the ironclads are pretty significant. The rail-car from WWI and WWII also has had a lot of influence.

What about the Magna Carta?

Rob Wilson wrote:

Darth Yoshi wrote: How do you know that V'ger even has a feminine side? For all you know, it could be butch.

Because that's exactly what he did. The probe in the shape of Khambala, that fell for Decker after Kirk did his 'importance of human emotions' thing.

Oh. I had assumed the probe wasn't that thorough of an extension of V'ger.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:What about the Magna Carta?

When was the Magna Carta again?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The rail-car from WWI and WWII also has had a lot of influence.

Thatw as just sort of an aside, Treaty of Versailles fits the bill of bridging the two WWs better IMHO.

EDIT: Messed-up quote.

The Aliens wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The rail-car from WWI and WWII also has had a lot of influence.

Thatw as just sort of an aside, Treaty of Versailles fits the bill of bridging the two WWs better IMHO.

EDIT: Messed-up quote.

The railcar was blown up in Berlin, anyway.

Lt. Dan wrote:What about Noah's ark? There are Sat. pics of it frozen in Mt. Ararat in Turkey.

The one I think that may still be around and is important would have to be the Ark of the Covenant. Laws of God would be damn important...

The satelite pics I've seen on TV look a whole hell of a lot more like a rock outcrop than a boat.
If there were convincing photographs of such an impossible object being there, it would have caused an international uproar and there would have been multiple expeditions bringing back the goods by now.

BTW,
The longest documented wooden ship was the USS Dunderberg, a Northern ironclad built a Webb's shipyard in New York, completed to late to see service in the Civil War, and sold to France as the Rochambeau in 1867.
Displacement: 7,060 tons
Dimensions: 377' 4"(overall) 358'8"(between perpendiculars) x 72'9" x 21'

Designed to carry 4 15 inch smoothbores and 8 11 inch smoothbores. Carried 3.5 inch side armor and 4.5 inch casemate armor.

Frank Hipper wrote: BTW,
The longest documented wooden ship was the USS Dunderberg, a Northern ironclad built a Webb's shipyard in New York, completed to late to see service in the Civil War, and sold to France as the Rochambeau in 1867.
Displacement: 7,060 tons
Dimensions: 377' 4"(overall) 358'8"(between perpendiculars) x 72'9" x 21'

Designed to carry 4 15 inch smoothbores and 8 11 inch smoothbores. Carried 3.5 inch side armor and 4.5 inch casemate armor.

She used metal to support the load and the Plates helped to prevent torsion.

The Largest, purely wooden (bar metal pins for securing masts and the like) is the Al Hashemi II, it currently holds the world record and has done since 2001. You can find some of her vital statistics here. Including the fact it took 175 men 6 years using 3000m3 of wood to build her.

She weighs 2500 tons dry. Her Length is 83.75m (including figurehead), with a width of 18.5m. That's 274ft long and 61ft wide.

So basically for Noah's ark to exist, he and his sons not only had to round up 2 of every animal, they had to match the construction efforts of 175 men, harvet 3000m3 of wood by themselves. Carve it and fit it together correctly. Make pins of high-tempered steel, build a dry dock to support this massive vessel (with all the wood and carving that needs). Well peice of cake for an unskilled man and his sons. I'm surprised they didn't build a fleet while they were at it.

Those romans built damn fine roads.

I forgot which sci-fi writter suggested that after we are dust the presence of all of those porciline bowls would live future archologists to conclude we practiced human sacrifiece...

About the Grail as the most important artifact, I totally disagree with Walter Donovan. The Grail sucks, even in the Indiana Jones universe.

IRL, the Grail would just be a cup. In the Indy universe, it's a cup that grants you immortality if you don't leave a cave.
Granted, neither Donovan, Hitler, or Indy could have known that before getting it, and The Last Crusade is still one of the top five best movies of all time, but the Grail itself still sucks.