His Divine Shadow wrote:Nor could you prove differently either, you argue that the fact that ships exist who have been converted proves your position, I argue that it means the exact opposite because only a few ships have been converted and the almost every MC ship is crewed entierly by MonCals.
That, and the fact the discretely stated items of difference are NOT that big a deal.
His Divine Shadow wrote:I wish you'd stop trying to pull that racial analogy, it pisses me off and tries to make something out of nothing, infact it's such a blatant misrepresentation that it so greatly aggrevates me to you see you pulling such cheapshots that soon I'm gonna be burning crosses and dressing in white and lynching black people just because of this, or I might just be really really pissed at you like forever and ever.
Yet you could not quote any real differences. This whole "There are lots of <Advantaged Group A>" shit can be used to justify a lot of discriminatory exclusions. Which is precisely why I chose that counter. If you never use that argument again, it removes the need for me to write this.
His Divine Shadow wrote:A better analogy would be that there's no need to let women in the service because it's a war on now and think of all the things that needs changing, there's no reason for it, oh hip-hoorah for equality and all that shit, but let's wait until the war is over, ok hun? Go make me a sandwich.
Your analogy is false on several counts:
1) It presumes major resource expenditure is required.
2) It presumes that excluded species are excluded from all positions.
3) It presumes there are no practical advantages to the allowance of new groups into the fray.
Try this: "We already have women in the Service and on the ships. Most of our ships (including all our newbuilds) have made most areas accessible to them (thus most of the cost and experimentation on this had been done successfully.) But let's keep them off the bridge because there's a war on now. Even though we really need the best people (regardless of gender) on our best ship's bridges and past experiences suggest that making changes is not difficult and may even be a mere option to implement on the next newbuild, let's wait until the War where we Expound we like Equality is over, thus making us look like hypocrites, as well as potentially decreasing our Fleet's combat efficiency by excluding what might be a capable female officer on the bridge - and by extension severely hindering their further progress. And because of that, a less capable male officer might be promoted in her stead, to the DETERIMENT of our Fleet!!!"
I was talking about the Mc90 myself, then again I also do not see a problem.
I personally am thinking of the MC80B.
I also do not see why the MonCals should be forced to comply with the wishes of what is essentially leeches who want to hitch a ride for something as vain as prestige
And equality?
Why are employers on our planet forced to adhere (at least in theory) to Anti-Discrimination Guidelines and Regulations? Could it be ... discrimination is WRONG, and ultimately INEFFICIENT?
And perhaps because as a member of the Rebel Alliance, they've already signed a Treaty that says they are ultimately answerable to such leadership as Mon Mothma?
If they are such xenophobes, perhaps they shouldn't be allying with anyone in the first place.
when they are out there laying down their lifes and cranking out ships as much as they can for you. So they give the ungratefull alliance bastards a compromise until they come out with the MC90.
The fact they might be putting out their lives building ships might mean overall they are good people. It does not mean they are not racist.
I don't understand why when I propose Mon Cals are racist, rather than try to come up with rational explanations of why their policies aren't racist, they tend to give me red herrings about how hardworking and otherwise contributive they are.
His Divine Shadow wrote:Assumption on your part ofcourse, I could as easily argue out of ignorance, just like you do, that it suggest there is a major technlological problem and they only made those alterations because they where easier and did not require a highly effective or fast input to the computer systems, or otherwise much contact with them.
Both works, none is proven.
Bridges are basically mere command interfaces, and again I must point out:
1) Mon Cals do not have major problems using multi-species capable systems. In fact, they can do it to the point of driving Starfighters, which is no doubt much more reliant on "fast, effective input" than a Bridge Console Interface.
2) Clearly Known difficulties are not that difficult to get by. Certainly you can create Phantom Difficulties, but that violates Occam's Razor.
I never strive for equality, but superiority, and the alliance was striving for superioty over the Imperial Navy, equality kinda takes a backseat then.
Oh, I see. The Mon Calamari actually strive for superiority of their species.
And how many times do I have to suggest to you that eliminating racism is not only the Right Thing to Do, but in the long run especially, it is also the Efficient Thing to Do, and thus it is the Pragmatic, Logical Thing to Do to Enhance Superiority over the Imperial Fleet?
Or it's just a by-product of the harsh realities of war and strapped resources,
Even though available data suggest that it would take little or no extra drain on the "strapped resources" to make the change, and making the change would allow for more efficient use of their "strapped resources?"
maybe it's a simple fact that the MonCals really do handle their own ships best on their own,
Yes, of course, but no one else could USE those interfaces!
How about actually proving that by Competition, rather than by virtue of making indecipherable interfaces?
maybe it's recognized that it's their ships, it's their GIFT, don't start bitching to people willing to lay down their lifes for you that they are speciest scum because they aren't in a hurry to start converting their ships.
I see, so if you were employed but was discriminated against, you would think it is some kinda
gift that you were employed, and never bitch about it?
It is a gift, and as I've said before, even if the Mon Cals came out and said aloud they made their ships that way because they are racists, I think the RA would take them anyway.
Perhaps you don't realize this, but every time you use this argument you basically said "The Mon Cals have the right to be racist, because they are providing the money."
In effect, you are trying to legitimize Discrimination.
Replace "Mon Cal" with "Employer" and you might start seeing the problem. It might be his Right. That's not the same as saying he's not racist or discriminatory, or that he's not an ass.
