The Prequels -- Not so bad

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-06-20 11:51am

McC wrote:Well, in terms of staff, I don't think it's the editor that's the problem, but as mentioned previously, Rick McCallum. He just rubs me the wrong way whenever I see him in behind the scenes stuff, and I suspect the majority are right when they say he's the biggest yes-man at Lucasfilm right now.

Its not just the editor, but having someone with actual differance saying no would help.

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-06-21 05:17am

Well, there are those who feel as though TPM is proof that the Antichrist walks the Earth, but I am not one of them. I think that, compared to how long we waited and how high the bar had been set by the original trilogy, Phantom Menace did not live up to its potential. Still, it was not so bad. I was glad to see the franchise return.

Part of it may be that the whole whiz-bang novel effect of Star Wars had worn off. When the first movies came out they were brand new, cutting-edge, and trailblazing. Now they are not. We sit down and expect to be blown away but to some extent I think we may have set ourselves up with expectations so high that they could not be reached. The opening was tame compared to the opening for ANH, but that's because the Galaxy is not yet shooting at each other.

I did not mind seeing young Annie as a child-prodigy type, and I wish some of the deleted scenes had been kept (like him fighting with young Greedo). Even an 8-year-old child prodigy is an 8-year-old child, and says things like "Yippee!". Having him be an 8-year-old with a grave and Stentorian bearing would have been silly. Yeah, there are things I would have changed (immaculate conception being one), but on the whole it is not so bad.

I think AoTC fits right within the series as a comfortable equal to the OT. Again, I would make some minor changes, such as deleting 3P0's "such a drag" comment-- it is something rooted in 20th century Western pop culture, it would be akin to Anakin walking up to Kenobi and saying, "Yo, dude, whassup?"

But still, the forced dialogue between Obi-Wan and Jango is supposed to be forced, I like seeing the Jango/Boba/Clonetrooper past explained, I liked seeing how Sidious used Dooku to manipulate the Confederacy into providing an enemy to justify his power grab... and how Dooku used the truth about a Sith controlling the Senate to try to manipulate Obi-Wan. A complicated plot worthy of a Sith, and it also demonstrated that the Jedi are not the ubermensch some have criticized them to be.

The hard thing for me is to compare the production values. I take the movies as a whole piece of art, and while the story slips around a bit and some of the dialogue and character portrayals could use improvement in the prequels, I cannot fault the visual effects. The stop-motion animation and model effects of the OT now remind me more of Ray Harryhausen's efforts, and the fight around the Death Star now seems like an unrelated series of events, each in its own seperate box. Only some of the complex shots added in the later version makes it more lifelike.

The biggest thing to bear in mind about the prequels is the feeling that George made them under pressure. I was always under the impression that he was tired of SW after RoTJ and he's always wanted to work in historical pieces that focus on the 20's and 30's. But his efforts in those areas, except for the Indiana Jones series, didn't do so well. When the public brushed off "Young Indiana Jones Adventures" and asked for more Star Wars, he felt snubbed. And of course the actors and producers felt that Star Wars had become Gospel and would not challenge GL to change anything.

Supposedly Ep III will bring it all together for us, I hope so.

And then, with a little more tweaking to Computer Animation values like we saw in Final Fantasy, someone can digitally reconstruct Luke, Han, Liea, et al and bring the Thrawn books to life... heheheh.....

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-21 02:50pm

Stravo wrote: GL reminds me of those best selling authors who no longer have an editor riding their asses and suddenly they start producing horrible tomes that keep growing in fucking size. (See Stephen King and even worse offender Anne Rice whose work is now unreadable.)

I agree completely with your review of TPM, but I disagree with you on AOTC. AOTC is every bit as painful for me to watch as TPM, mostly because of the dialog and the poor execution of all the characterization moments. Even though the story (plot) itself is better, with more of a mystery and more action, the other deficits and the poorly done action (the beginning and middle of the movie) as well as annoying characters all add up to a definite thumbs down from me.

However, I do have a problem with your views on Stephen King. I think his latest Dark Tower Books and On Writing are very good, From A Buick 8 is on the same level as Christine and Carrie for me, and only Dreamcatcher really sucked due to a lack of editing/re-reading. Really, really sucked. But I don't take it to mean his quality is down because he did write Dreamcatcher in 2 days while he was on several painkillers, recovering from having his hip smashed by a reckless driver in a van. [/anal-retentive fan-whoring]

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-21 03:07pm

Coyote wrote: Even an 8-year-old child prodigy is an 8-year-old child, and says things like "Yippee!".

Gotta disagree with you there. I have never, ever met an 8 year old who ever said "yippe!" outside of the context of the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer song. It's just not a thing that kids say.
"Fuck yeah!" or "Damn!" would work a lot better.

Having him be an 8-year-old with a grave and Stentorian bearing would have been silly.

Except that he was a slave. Remember that? That means he was powerless to stop Waddo from selling his mother's ass to every scaggy transient in the Mos Eisley area. He probably had no real childhood, what with being a piece of property loaned out to Nemoidian business men as a "sleepy-time companion" and the hours of back-breaking slave labor.

Annakin was a sweatshop child laborer but with less civil rights, and you expect him to be even more happy-go-lucky? I just don't see it.

Yeah, there are things I would have changed (immaculate conception being one), but on the whole it is not so bad.
.....

Yeah, the immaculate conception thing is a lot harder to believe than the "I'm a slave, do you think I know which john is his father?" angle.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-06-21 03:13pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:Gotta disagree with you there. I have never, ever met an 8 year old who ever said "yippe!" outside of the context of the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer song. It's just not a thing that kids say.
"Fuck yeah!" or "Damn!" would work a lot better.

I do agree that "yipee" is awfully annoying. I never once said yipee except sarcastically, as best I can recall.

Except that he was a slave. Remember that? That means he was powerless to stop Waddo from selling his mother's ass to every scaggy transient in the Mos Eisley area. He probably had no real childhood, what with being a piece of property loaned out to Nemoidian business men as a "sleepy-time companion" and the hours of back-breaking slave labor.

Annakin was a sweatshop child laborer but with less civil rights, and you expect him to be even more happy-go-lucky? I just don't see it.

Yeah, the sweatshop of Watto's repair station? Where he fixed stuff? He and Watto? And some droids? Yep. Terrible.

Please. Anakin is more of an indentured laborer than a slave. Slavery on Tatooine, at least when owned by Watto, is pretty clearly not as terrible as some slavery can be.

Yeah, the immaculate conception thing is a lot harder to believe than the "I'm a slave, do you think I know which john is his father?" angle.

This assumes that he actually was conceived without a father. Shmi says there was no father. Is that because there wasn't, or because she has a gap in her memory? Blocked out trauma? You're jumping to conclusions.

Rhoades · Post by **Rhoades** » 2004-06-21 03:56pm

McC wrote:
Yeah, the immaculate conception thing is a lot harder to believe than the "I'm a slave, do you think I know which john is his father?" angle.
This assumes that he actually was conceived without a father. Shmi says there was no father. Is that because there wasn't, or because she has a gap in her memory? Blocked out trauma? You're jumping to conclusions.

I remember the novel speculated that Shmi's spontanious conceivement of Anakin is theorized by either the Force, or Midiclorins. I can't recall the exact passage right now, however that's the implied interuptation from the dialogue taken from the movie. Frankly, I rationalize that being an excuse; either she doesn't know (memory gaps or could be anyone), or she does not wish to reveal the truth for some horrible reason.