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Yogi wrote:

King Cosmos wrote:At most, Mystic SSJ is equal to that of SSJ3. Keep in mind you are comparing Gotenks SSJ3 and not Goku SSJ3.

WTH is Mystic SSJ? After getting the Mystic powerup, Gohan doesn't go SSJ, unless you count the craptacular Dragonball GT which IS NOT CANON!

There is no canon issues to be dealt considering Dragon Ball. Toriyama ended his manga after the Buu Saga and allowed Dragon Ball to continue. GT is just as "canon" as the rest. Toriyama, TOEI, nor Funanimation never has stated that he does not recognize GT and I have never seen any fan sites of DBZ making that claim either.

They mystic form of Gohan surpasses that of SSJ2. I guess people could argue that the Mystic form of a Sayin-jin is not a true form of a SS. Some people might even do the same with SSJ4. But we scoff at that minute group of blashphemers.

Second, it's hard to tell who is stronger between SSJ3 Goku and Mystic Gohan. General fan concensus states that Mystic Gohan is stronger, by the argument Mystic Gohan > Super Buu > Kid Buu > SSJ3 Goku. Personally, I think that Kid Buu > Super Buu, making it a bit harder to tell. However, he can definetly outlast Goku.

General fan concensus? A simple Google search for DBZ power levels will show that Mystic Gohan is at most just as strong as SSJ3 Goku. So it would be SSJ3 Goku >= Mystic Gohan > Super Buu > Kid Buu. Goku's Genki Dama killed Kid Buu at the end.[/i]

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Give Superman Kryptonite X and things are pretty much moving Up for Superman. With Kryptonite X His Powers increase exponentially b/c he starts uncontrollably absorbing solar energy. His power actually come some what close to Pre-Crisis level. (MOS #30)

So? SSJ4 would whoop Pre-Crisis Superman. The argument is Goku vs. Superman at the respective states. I am not including what power level Goku is at when he fused with Shenron and the Dragon balls at the end of GT.

As for the whole Doomsday thing, when He fought Superman Before they were both equal in strength. They both wore each other down. As for their second battle Doomday was stronger and had the Defensive and offensive countermeasures to his powers, plus the fact that Nobody can beat DD twice, and the fact that in Huter/Prey DD can evolve instantly to any attack.

SSJ4 Goku, 'nuff said. Just because Superman pussed out, does not mean Goku would, nor does it mean Goku would lose. Sayin-jins also increase in power with every battle. Kill Doomsday, and disentegrate the body, I believe that is what was stated during Hunter/Prey as well.

Besides Supes has faced beings far deadlier that Goku.

Like who? Lex Luthor? Brainiac? John Byrnes 1986 revamp? the "Electric Superman" story arc? psssft whatever dude.

Don't mind THEHOOLIGANJEDI and his wank-fests.

Along with what everyone else has said, Goku owns Superman in another area in an atmosphere, speed.

He fights at ftl in an atmosphere, where Superman does not, plus the Saiyan has the advantage of Instant Transmission.

And you can't count out ki sense.

On-Topic: Has anyone seen that Wizard issue where they finally pit Japanese superheroes against American ones?

One of the fights is Superman versus Goku, and Goku kicks Supes's ass!

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Don't mind THEHOOLIGANJEDI and his wank-fests.

Wank fest!?!?!?!? WTF

Yogi wrote:At PL 250-ish Master Roshi could blow up the moon.

Let me repeat that 250 = Blow up the freaking MOON!! In ONE ATTACK. Superman would be hard pressed to match that.

Form two Freiza is a ONE MILLION. That is 250 * 4000. Four thousand times the power to blow up the moon.

SSJ3 Goku VERY LOW END ESTIMATE is Thirty MILLION. Most estimates place him more in the five hundred million range so thirty million is very low. Still, that's 12,000 times the power needed to blow up the moon.

Also, Muten Roshi's blast hit the moon in, let's be generous, twenty second. Meaning, it was traveling at around 1/20 the speed of light.

I'm going to temporarily disregard my "exponential speed calc" since it is still being refined. However, even by a liniar calc. attacks fired by SSJ3 Goku would travel at 600 times light speed.

Superman = Dead

I think Roshi was at 139 when he did that.

Interesting info you provided, by the way.

Antediluvian wrote:
On-Topic: Has anyone seen that Wizard issue where they finally pit Japanese superheroes against American ones?

One of the fights is Superman versus Goku, and Goku kicks Supes's ass!

Nope, I used to get Wizard because I used to collect comic books. Oh, and good, Goku should whoop up Superman. What was the issue number?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Would ki energy count as magic? Because that's another weakness of Superman's.

Possibly. The martial arts used to learn ki powers are apparently mystical in nature.

King Cosmos wrote:

Antediluvian wrote:
On-Topic: Has anyone seen that Wizard issue where they finally pit Japanese superheroes against American ones?

One of the fights is Superman versus Goku, and Goku kicks Supes's ass!

Nope, I used to get Wizard because I used to collect comic books. Oh, and good, Goku should whoop up Superman. What was the issue number?

133, I believe.

King Cosmos wrote:

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Give Superman Kryptonite X and things are pretty much moving Up for Superman. With Kryptonite X His Powers increase exponentially b/c he starts uncontrollably absorbing solar energy. His power actually come somewhat close to Pre-Crisis level. (MOS #30)

So? SSJ4 would whoop Pre-Crisis Superman. The argument is Goku vs. Superman at the respective states. I am not including what power level Goku is at when he fused with Shenron and the Dragon balls at the end of GT.

PreCrsis Superman was practically omnipotent, PreC. Supes would laugh at him.

SSJ4 Goku, 'nuff said. Just because Superman pussed out, does not mean Goku would, nor does it mean Goku would lose. Sayin-jins also increase in power with every battle. Kill Doomsday, and disentegrate the body, I believe that is what was stated during Hunter/Prey as well.

Wrong you forget that if Doomsday is defeated, that being no matter how powerful that being can make himself, that being:
1. Can't kill Doomsday
2. DD has Offesive and Defensive countermeasures that are specially atunned to that beings physiology, powers, and abilities.
Goku can summond all the power he wants. If he could defeat DD, them all the power he can summond ain't gonna do a damn thing. As for the disintergrating of DDs body, the quote said that it might have stopped him, it's unknown if it would have stopped him for all time.

Like who? Lex Luthor? Brainiac? John Byrnes 1986 revamp? the "Electric Superman" story arc? psssft whatever dude.

Doomsday for one thing, Imperiex, the Cyborg (who has all of Supes powers but also is pure energy),I'll list more later.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote: PreCrsis Superman was practically omnipotent, PreC. Supes would laugh at him.

Pre-Crisis Superman If you insist to include this laughable figure, I will simply include Goku after he fused with Shenron and the Dragon Balls at the end of GT. You still lose.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Wrong you forget that if Doomsday is defeated, that being no matter how powerful that being can make himself, that being:
1. Can't kill Doomsday
2. DD has Offesive and Defensive countermeasures that are specially atunned to that beings physiology, powers, and abilities.
Goku can summond all the power he wants. If he could defeat DD, them all the power he can summond ain't gonna do a damn thing. As for the disintergrating of DDs body, the quote said that it might have stopped him, it's unknown if it would have stopped him for all time.

1) Yes, Doomsday can be killed. He was killed by that silly pure energy dude before he was imprisoned and sent to Earth. He was also killed by Superman.
2)He has "offensive and defensive countermeasures" against Superman, not Goku.
3)And after Goku rips Doomsday a new hole, one Genki Dama would lay waste to his body and send him into oblivion. That is how they killed Doomsday at the end of Hunter/Prey. His body was consumed by Entrophy and thus, no more Doomsday regeneration.
4) It is apparent that you do not know the exact quote, and neither do I. However, what I do recall is something along the lines (and I paraphrase) "...if they would have destroyed the body, it would have ended right there...." Besides, Doomsday cannot regenerate if there is nothing left to do so! He hasn't come back from the end of time eh?

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote: Doomsday for one thing, Imperiex, the Cyborg (who has all of Supes powers but also is pure energy),I'll list more later.

And all of these feeble creatures were beaten by Superman and we have already established that Goku would put the Smack down on Superman himself.

Anything Pre-Crisis cannot be used.

The Pre-Crisis history never happened.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Anything Pre-Crisis cannot be used.

The Pre-Crisis history never happened.

You know what is funny? I think you are right. John Byrne wanted to totally recreate Superman and much of what happened in Pre-Crisis kinda went down the toilet.

Crisis on Infinite Earths was the giant reset button for DC continuity. This is a totally obvious, proven fact.

Thus, nothing before Crisis ever happened, according to DC.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Crisis on Infinite Earths was the giant reset button for DC continuity. This is a totally obvious, proven fact.

Thus, nothing before Crisis ever happened, according to DC.

This is true.

Guess that card went down the toilet.

Of course, when Supes gets all flamey, he's probably nearly at PC.

Yes I know that, but since you guys aren't really reading my post you didn't get that. I said that with kryptonite X Superman was able to increase his powers until he was close to his PreCrisis levels in strength, speed, etc. Actually Didn't Mongul II say to Superman that if he didn't hold back mentally his power would be limitless.

BTW how did Superman "Puss Out" when he fought DD the second time around. You must have vaguely read through Hunter/Prey. For one thing Superman Knew that he could never again beat DD no matter how powerful he could get. He held his own quite well for someone who almost died. Actually if you properly read Hunter/Prey then you'd know that Superman was willing to die just to see DD stopped for all time. Ifd you remember Superman used the Mother Box and Waverider's Linear Device to send himself and Doomsday to the end of time. There Supes was totally resigned to dying there, but Waverider saved him just in time. Duhhhh!!!

Oh and Mr Mxyzptlk is far more powerful and deadlier than Goku, He semi omnipotent like Q.

We're reading your posts HooliganJedi.

I'm not sure bringing up Superman's defeating of Mxyzptlk is a good example of Supes's fighting prowess or sheer power, as he had to outsmart him to defeat him, not through combat.

As for Mongul II's quote, the same thing has been said about Goku, by King Kai, no less.

King Cosmos wrote:General fan concensus? A simple Google search for DBZ power levels will show that Mystic Gohan is at most just as strong as SSJ3 Goku. So it would be SSJ3 Goku >= Mystic Gohan > Super Buu > Kid Buu. Goku's Genki Dama killed Kid Buu at the end.

My bad, I should have said it was the general concensus of those who have actually discussed the matter. The argument is as follows.

Mystic Gohan pounded the crap out of Super Buu. Mystic Gohan > Super Buu
Super Buu with a whole bunch of powerful people ripped out of him is Kid Buu. Super Buu > Kid Buu.
Kid Buu was poinding the crap out of SSJ3 Goku. Only a Genki Dama + the Kaious and everyone helping + a wish from a Dragon was able to help him win. Otherwise he would have been toast. Kid Buu > SSJ3 Goku
So, to re-iterate
Mystic Gohan > Supr Buu
Super Buu > Kid Buu
Kid Buu > SSJ3 Goku

Antediluvian wrote:We're reading your posts HooliganJedi.

I'm not sure bringing up Superman's defeating of Mxyzptlk is a good example of Supes's fighting prowess or sheer power, as he had to outsmart him to defeat him, not through combat.

As for Mongul II's quote, the same thing has been said about Goku, by King Kai, no less.

My point here is not to prove that Supes would win, it's prove that Superman is no pussy and has unlimited Powers and abilities, and that he wouldn't lose as badly as many of you say. I just trying to avert a circle jerk here, but some people want to accuse me of inciting one here (and you know who you are). Personally I think it would be a stand still, but that's my opinion.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:

Antediluvian wrote:We're reading your posts HooliganJedi.

I'm not sure bringing up Superman's defeating of Mxyzptlk is a good example of Supes's fighting prowess or sheer power, as he had to outsmart him to defeat him, not through combat.

As for Mongul II's quote, the same thing has been said about Goku, by King Kai, no less.

My point here is not to prove that Supes would win, it's prove that Superman is no pussy and has unlimited Powers and abilities, and that he wouldn't lose as badly as many of you say. I just trying to avert a circle jerk here, but some people want to accuse me of inciting one here (and you know who you are). Personally I think it would be a stand still, but that's my opinion.

I don't think he's a pussy, either, he's just outclassed in this fight.

That's my opinion.

I like Superman.

It's just that he'd loose.

Okay so we hav a difference of opinion, no point in arguing any further.

i would just like to say that goku has the capactiy to gain power rapidly, not only powering up (lol funny concept......) but when he gets is @$$ kicked he comes back stronger, and with his "good guy" immortality, he always vanquishes in the end, although they both have their cheasy cartoon hero invulnerabilities on, so it would be very interesting lol...
Superman seems to just kinda be super-powerful, but goku and became stronger.....hes faster.......and he has some hella strong allies but hey it depends on what saga.......right?

Okay so we hav a difference of opinion, no point in arguing any further

Gee Star Wars VS ST? Why we are having a Diffrence of opinion! We best stop right here and now.....


See how Redicious that is Hooligan?

Mr Bean wrote:

Okay so we hav a difference of opinion, no point in arguing any further

Gee Star Wars VS ST? Why we are having a Diffrence of opinion! We best stop right here and now.....


See how Redicious that is Hooligan?

I add that, as far as Superman Vs Goku goes, a good analogy is the feds Vs the Culture.

Has superman ever tryed to destroy a planet?