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verilon wrote:

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Yes, Iggy, we know how little you care about your fellow humans. We don't need you to reiterate it evewry three to five posts.

I do care for my fellow humans, as long as they show a little self-respect and a glimmer of common sense.

Common sense does not have to overwhelm irrationality.

WTF? Expand on this, please.

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:

IG-88E wrote: I do care for my fellow humans, as long as they show a little self-respect and a glimmer of common sense.

Common sense does not have to overwhelm irrationality.

WTF? Expand on this, please.

Common sense does not have to overwhelm irrationality, ie her religious beliefs. Meaning, one does not have to have more common sense than rligious beliefs (unfortunately). So, her overwhelming belief in God has surpassed her common sense. It doesn't mean that it's not there, just that there isn't enough it.

Iggy wrote:I do care for my fellow humans, as long as they show a little self-respect and a glimmer of common sense.

And if I want to reiterate things every post, I'll damn well put it in, like Fgalkin or Soontir.

I am cold and cruel,

Iggy

How's that?

My point was just that we really don't have any idea what is going on in her brain, so it is rather callous to make of mockery of it. Maybe she's not stupid, maybe she's just miserable. Who knows? Until I know someone well enough to tell whether they're just trying for attention or truly serious, it seems more humane to presume the latter, just in case. If you assume the former and you're wrong, she's dead by the time you realize you made a mistake and (if it's someone you care about), there's nothing you can do at that point except feel guilty as hell and try to live with it. Trust me, it's a thing to hang over you.

Verilon wrote:Common sense does not have to overwhelm irrationality, ie her religious beliefs. Meaning, one does not have to have more common sense than rligious beliefs (unfortunately). So, her overwhelming belief in God has surpassed her common sense. It doesn't mean that it's not there, just that there isn't enough it.

If that's the case, you might as well not have any.

Zaia wrote:My point was just that we really don't have any idea what is going on in her brain, so it is rather callous to make of mockery of it. Maybe she's not stupid, maybe she's just miserable. Who knows? Until I know someone well enough to tell whether they're just trying for attention or truly serious, it seems more humane to presume the latter, just in case. If you assume the former and you're wrong, she's dead by the time you realize you made a mistake and (if it's someone you care about), there's nothing you can do at that point except feel guilty as hell and try to live with it. Trust me, it's a thing to hang over you.

This girl's willing to throw her life away on a whim for no discerable purpose other than winning a dare, of all things. She won't even make a point. What, does she think she'll come back and haunt Yogi's dreams or something?

Look, when someone you know makes a statement about suicide, you CAN and MUST do everything in your power to stop them. This girl is perpetuating a whole different situation.

1st. Yogi ran into her during a debate at CW
2nd. He's never seen her before.
3rd. They don't even know each other's NAMES.
4th. A person can say some pretty crazy things when their riled up. I'm not taking this sudden comment seriously.

IG-88E wrote:

Verilon wrote:Common sense does not have to overwhelm irrationality, ie her religious beliefs. Meaning, one does not have to have more common sense than rligious beliefs (unfortunately). So, her overwhelming belief in God has surpassed her common sense. It doesn't mean that it's not there, just that there isn't enough it.

If that's the case, you might as well not have any.

Meh. Okay.

Iggy wrote:

Zaia wrote:My point was just that we really don't have any idea what is going on in her brain, so it is rather callous to make of mockery of it. Maybe she's not stupid, maybe she's just miserable. Who knows? Until I know someone well enough to tell whether they're just trying for attention or truly serious, it seems more humane to presume the latter, just in case. If you assume the former and you're wrong, she's dead by the time you realize you made a mistake and (if it's someone you care about), there's nothing you can do at that point except feel guilty as hell and try to live with it. Trust me, it's a thing to hang over you.

This girl's willing to throw her life away on a whim for no discerable purpose other than winning a dare, of all things. She won't even make a point. What, does she think she'll come back and haunt Yogi's dreams or something?

Look, when someone you know makes a statement about suicide, you CAN and MUST do everything in your power to stop them. This girl is perpetuating a whole different situation.

Then what makes the Plainfield idiot any different?

Iggy wrote:1st. Yogi ran into her during a debate at CW
2nd. He's never seen her before.
3rd. They don't even know each other's NAMES.
4th. A person can say some pretty crazy things when their riled up. I'm not taking this sudden comment seriously.

No one should take this seriously; if she wants to do it, then she'll prolly discuss it with family who will eventually convince her not to do it. But if she doesn't, then I feel bad for her and her family and friends. If you don't, the that's your deal, but I have a completely different moral standing that you're just gonna have to deal with.

verilon wrote:Then what makes the Plainfield idiot any different?

He's trying to use the "poor, poor me" excuse to justify his trolling, and why we shouldn't shoot back at his flames. Bullshit.

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Then what makes the Plainfield idiot any different?

He's trying to use the "poor, poor me" excuse to justify his trolling, and why we shouldn't shoot back at his flames. Bullshit.

Okay, but how does his trolling come into it? Doesn't matter. Some of us have had very hard lives, yourself and myself not excluded, so maybe you could consider lightening up just a bit, for once, even if it be the smallest amount?

verilon wrote:Okay, but how does his trolling come into it? Doesn't matter. Some of us have had very hard lives, yourself and myself not excluded, so maybe you could consider lightening up just a bit, for once, even if it be the smallest amount?

Had this kid started an honest thread about it, yes,I would try and help him out, having been through what he describes. However, the way he brought his hard-knock life into the argument irritates the hell out of me. I don't use the bashings I got at school to justify flaming people, why should he?

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Okay, but how does his trolling come into it? Doesn't matter. Some of us have had very hard lives, yourself and myself not excluded, so maybe you could consider lightening up just a bit, for once, even if it be the smallest amount?

Had this kid started an honest thread about it, yes,I would try and help him out, having been through what he describes. However, the way he brought his hard-knock life into the argument irritates the hell out of me. I don't use the bashings I got at school to justify flaming people, why should he?

Good point. But again, how do his feelings about suicide make him any less worthy of some sort of attention, be he a troll or not?

verilon wrote:Good point. But again, how do his feelings about suicide make him any less worthy of some sort of attention, be he a troll or not?

Let him have his feelings. Let him have his feelings and fucking DEAL with them. I'm not here to pick up his baggage, especially after he acted like such a donkey-raper. Had he asked for advice, or even just a shoulder to cry on, I'd have been there. However, he's saying:

"You better be nice or I'll commit suicide and you'll feel bad about that, won't you?"

My answer? "Fuck off."

verilon wrote: Okay, but in the context of her being a Christian, she thinks, hell she KNOWS, that her beliefs aren't irrational. Are you tellng me that you wouldn't feel the least bit of spite, that MAYBE you just might feel SOME TWINGE of guilt or remorse had you been the one to tell her to jump off the buolding and then she did, and died? Fuck, she's a fucking human! And if you tell me that you can't feel that small pang of regret, then you are no human to me. At leats, no moral one. You are sick, twisted, and cruel...things no human ever should be.

Would I feel bad if something I said was responsible for the fundie jumping and dying? I'll likely have a similar reaction to when I saw a guy jump off a viaduct and die 2 years ago. I'd be shocked, then it'll be like "fuck, that's gotta suck", and then I'll be kinda bummed for the rest of the day. That's if I saw the whole thing happen with my own eyes. If I didn't the reaction would be closer to "crap, didn't think she'd do, Oh well".

In real life, I'm directly responsible for 2 people almost getting killed from their own stupidity. It happened a year ago and both of them broke bones and suffered permanent but non-crippling injuries. How? Because the 2 dorks decided to ride their bikes off a dangerous advanced level stunt, and I chose not to knock them out to keep them from doing it. These guys were my age and fully rational, except that they had a highly inflated view of their own riding abilities.

The incidents happened about a month apart, both of them on group rides with about 5 people in them. In both cases the dorks wanted to ride the stunt, and the exchange went something like this. Also, I knew from watching them ride that they'd get hurt bad on the stunt.

D: oh man that thing is so cool, I'm so gonna ride it!
Me: listen, I don't think it's a good idea to try, it's a lot harder than it looks
D: whatever, it's not that bad, I can nail that thing
Me: listen, take another look at it, it ain't about balls or attitude here OK?
D: quit your worrying, I can do this shit, piece of cake
Me: OK then, but I ain't gettin you an ambulance. And don't say I didn't warn you
D: yeah, yeah, you're a funny guy.

Shortly after which the guy would ride off the stunt, mess up the landing, and break bones. Which required 1st aid and an ambulance, and screwed up their lives pretty good. To this day I don't feel bad about it at all, and think that they got what they deserved and a valuable life lesson as well.

Clearly I didn't do everything I could to stop it, and I saw no reason to. I will only go so far to prevent a person's stupidity from causing injury or death. That's the way my morals are. Some people might think I'm a cold sadistic fuck and I might think others are overly mushy, that's just the way things are.

aerius wrote:These guys were my age and fully rational, except that they had a highly inflated view of their own riding abilities.

That in itself makes them not rational. Personally, I would feel bad about not having done everyhting possible to stop them, or at least I would get them an ambulance (I owuld feel bad if I didnt do so). But I see where you're coming from.

And Iggy: Ever think about some anger maangement classes?

verilon wrote: And Iggy: Ever think about some anger maangement classes?

Unnecessary, thank you. I have a fine grip on my anger.

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote: And Iggy: Ever think about some anger maangement classes?

Unnecessary, thank you. I have a fine grip on my anger.

Well.....anger management was the closest I could come. It just seems like you are quite desensitized to .... a lot.

verilon wrote:Well.....anger management was the closest I could come. It just seems like you are quite desensitized to .... a lot.

Yes, I am rather desensitized. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that I've had two suicide attempts and three attempts on my life?

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Well.....anger management was the closest I could come. It just seems like you are quite desensitized to .... a lot.

Yes, I am rather desensitized. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that I've had two suicide attempts and three attempts on my life?

Maybe. *wince*

verilon wrote:Maybe. *wince*

Which is why this kid's story doesn't hold much weight with me. Especially after his trolling.

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Maybe. *wince*

Which is why this kid's story doesn't hold much weight with me. Especially after his trolling.

Well, it shouldn't because of the trolling, but it should (just a tiny bit) by itself.

verilon wrote:Well, it shouldn't because of the trolling, but it should (just a tiny bit) by itself.

A bit. Not much. People who kill themselves because a G/BF left them, or less, will never endear their memories to me.

IG-88E wrote:

verilon wrote:Well, it shouldn't because of the trolling, but it should (just a tiny bit) by itself.

A bit. Not much. People who kill themselves because a G/BF left them, or less, will never endear their memories to me.

Neither will they sit in mine.. Their lives, maybe, but never thair death.

Anyone who would talk of suicide after being insulted by total strangers after trolling them on a bulletin board is either lying or so hopelessly unstable that he would have committed suicide anyway, with or without our input. It just would have taken something else to set him off, like somebody looking at him funny at the mall.

Of course there are "insensitive pricks" on the board. There will be insensitive people everywhere. The board, while it tends to be intelligent, is diverse in almost all respects, and is a fair cross-section of intelligent, sci-fi watching internet junkies. It will, therefore, have a fair mix of people, with all groups being represented.