Page 3 of 3

Posted: 2002-11-17 12:09am
by Knife
Mike_6002 wrote:Large Gun: Jesse Ventura's 20mm Minigun (Wishing It would work)

It's real because Marine's and Navy tried to devlope a SAW Minigun after Predator, but it was to large, to heavy, and need a freakin Car Battery to draw power, and wouldn't be enough ammo on the solider to fire for long
I thought that it was a 7.62 mini?

Anyhoo,

1. M60d (long live the pig)

2. M2 (the ultimate sniper weapon)

3. Mk 19 mod 4 (whoooooohoooooo)

4. M16a2 (never had it fuck up on me)

5. H&K 40cal USP (personal favorite)

Posted: 2002-11-17 12:24am
by weemadando
My picks...

Pistol: Glock 22. I like stopping power and also having ammo. Though if I was going with a straight out side arm (for emergency use), Desert Eagle .357 with a 12 round extended clip. If you have to pull it out, you're already in trouble. Might as well go out blasting.
In the future I'll definately be picking a metal storm pistol. The capacity to fire 12 round bursts before recoil affects aim, and having 48 rounds in the pistol itself... All add up to happiness.

SMG: Depending on circumstance either an FN-P90 (with screw on silencer) or an HK UMP45SD. Again, it comes back to the stopping power arguement.

Shotgun: Benelli M3 Super. Oh yes.

Rifle: HK G36, with c-mags and the lovely 40mm.

Machine Gun: Minimi, comparatively light, effective, nice.

Sniper Weapon: WA-2000. Totally sweet.

Posted: 2002-11-17 12:28am
by Sea Skimmer
Mike_6002 wrote:ROTF (Overkill here) :roll: :roll: :roll:
Not really. With most sniper weapons, one shot one kill is the best you can hope for. With a 155mm airburst or DPICM round, one shot ten kills becomes easy. With copperhead, one shot one tank. :twisted:

Posted: 2002-11-17 12:45am
by Vympel
Where the hell do you get that? You change the barrel when the weapon starts to display misfires or a bread in the cycle of functions. Or generaly after about 10 minutes of sustained fire or 2 minutes of rapid fire.
The M60E3 was the last version of the M60. It was modified to make it lighter. Troop acceptance was extremely poor- it's lightening features made barrel change necessary after 100 rounds, not 200 rounds, and made it very unreliable.

Out of the 'big three' Soviet PK, the US M60 and the Belgian FN-MAG, the M60 is the worst. That's why the US Army replaced it with the FN-MAG (M240).

This is from a US Army FM on the PK:

Pros:
The PK is more powerful than the M60 (7.62x54R over 7.62x51mm)
Easier to handle when firing
2kg lighter than the M60

Cons:
The PK has 100m less range (1,000m instead of 1,100m)
The ammunition belt doesn't disintegrate

The Soviet PK has since been modifed to PKM standard (1971)- lighter but with the same performance, and the Petcheneg (late 90s)- with improved barrel/greater accuracy etc (the barrel is not changeable during combat though- no longer seen as neccesary)

The M60 has been in service in various forms with the US military since 1950, and has proven markedly inferior to its foreign counterparts, the German MG3 (a modernized MG-42 in 7.62x51mm), Soviet PK, and Belgian FN-MAG.
The M60 is a gas-operated, belt-fed, medium or ‘general purpose’ machine gun. It features a quick-change barrel, integral folding bipod and provisions for it to be mounted on a tripod or vehicle mount.
The M60s mediocrity is surprising considering its lineage: the first prototype was created from welding the belt-feed mechanism of an MG-42 onto an FG-42 automatic rifle (designed for use by the Third Reich's paratroops, the Fallschirmjager).
The M60 is known as ‘the pig’ not only for its distinctive grunting sound but also for its excessive weight and the difficulty of maintaining it. It also has a tendency to jam.
The M60 was always characterized as ‘barely adequate’: the bipod and gas chamber are permanently attached to the barrel, so quick replacement of the hot barrel in battle conditions was problematic. The shooter must wear asbestos gloves. Another drawback was the fragility of many parts of the operating group: key among these, and inherent in the design, was the firing pin, which seemed almost guaranteed to break right behind the forward shoulder.
The M60E3 was an attempt to improve the M60 by making it lighter and making several design changes, but it is a very flawed model and acceptance by the troops was very poor. The ‘weight-saving’ measures dramatically decreased the reliability of the weapon. The new, light barrel was capable of only firing 100 rounds before having to be changed, instead of 200 as on previous models. The reliability of the M60E3 was said to be even worse than the original M60, and this was one of the reasons for its replacement by the FN-MAG (type classified as M240).

Posted: 2002-11-17 12:58am
by Knife
Vympel wrote:
Where the hell do you get that? You change the barrel when the weapon starts to display misfires or a bread in the cycle of functions. Or generaly after about 10 minutes of sustained fire or 2 minutes of rapid fire.
The M60E3 was the last version of the M60. It was modified to make it lighter. Troop acceptance was extremely poor- it's lightening features made barrel change necessary after 100 rounds, not 200 rounds, and made it very unreliable.

Out of the 'big three' Soviet PK, the US M60 and the Belgian FN-MAG, the M60 is the worst. That's why the US Army replaced it with the FN-MAG (M240).

This is from a US Army FM on the PK:

Pros:
The PK is more powerful than the M60 (7.62x54R over 7.62x51mm)
Easier to handle when firing
2kg lighter than the M60

Cons:
The PK has 100m less range (1,000m instead of 1,100m)
The ammunition belt doesn't disintegrate

The Soviet PK has since been modifed to PKM standard (1971)- lighter but with the same performance, and the Petcheneg (late 90s)- with improved barrel/greater accuracy etc (the barrel is not changeable during combat though- no longer seen as neccesary)

The M60 has been in service in various forms with the US military since 1950, and has proven markedly inferior to its foreign counterparts, the German MG3 (a modernized MG-42 in 7.62x51mm), Soviet PK, and Belgian FN-MAG.
The M60 is a gas-operated, belt-fed, medium or ‘general purpose’ machine gun. It features a quick-change barrel, integral folding bipod and provisions for it to be mounted on a tripod or vehicle mount.
The M60s mediocrity is surprising considering its lineage: the first prototype was created from welding the belt-feed mechanism of an MG-42 onto an FG-42 automatic rifle (designed for use by the Third Reich's paratroops, the Fallschirmjager).
The M60 is known as ‘the pig’ not only for its distinctive grunting sound but also for its excessive weight and the difficulty of maintaining it. It also has a tendency to jam.
The M60 was always characterized as ‘barely adequate’: the bipod and gas chamber are permanently attached to the barrel, so quick replacement of the hot barrel in battle conditions was problematic. The shooter must wear asbestos gloves. Another drawback was the fragility of many parts of the operating group: key among these, and inherent in the design, was the firing pin, which seemed almost guaranteed to break right behind the forward shoulder.
The M60E3 was an attempt to improve the M60 by making it lighter and making several design changes, but it is a very flawed model and acceptance by the troops was very poor. The ‘weight-saving’ measures dramatically decreased the reliability of the weapon. The new, light barrel was capable of only firing 100 rounds before having to be changed, instead of 200 as on previous models. The reliability of the M60E3 was said to be even worse than the original M60, and this was one of the reasons for its replacement by the FN-MAG (type classified as M240).
My MOS was 0331 so I am aquinted with the 60. The only changes for the E3 was a lighter barrel that most units just replaced with the older heavier barrels. Also the gas system on the D was a one directon type piston that the E model corrected by having it omi directional(not sure on terminology) so that any way you put the thing in the gas system, it would work. Other changes include a change in the styling of the forward hand guard and bi pod assemblies and the ammo satchel holder.

The only two problems with the M60 in my and the other people who I served withs opinion is the spring for the feeding cam. If you took two springs and put them into one gun (as we did on various occasions) the 60 would rock for a very, very long time before a misfire occured. The other small problem was the stupid leaf spring that held the trigger assemble on the reciever assemblely. It sucked, other than that everone who ever used a 60 just loved the thing.

Posted: 2002-11-17 01:04am
by Vympel
Knife wrote:
My MOS was 0331 so I am aquinted with the 60. The only changes for the E3 was a lighter barrel that most units just replaced with the older heavier barrels. Also the gas system on the D was a one directon type piston that the E model corrected by having it omi directional(not sure on terminology) so that any way you put the thing in the gas system, it would work. Other changes include a change in the styling of the forward hand guard and bi pod assemblies and the ammo satchel holder.

The only two problems with the M60 in my and the other people who I served withs opinion is the spring for the feeding cam. If you took two springs and put them into one gun (as we did on various occasions) the 60 would rock for a very, very long time before a misfire occured. The other small problem was the stupid leaf spring that held the trigger assemble on the reciever assemblely. It sucked, other than that everone who ever used a 60 just loved the thing.
Have you used an M240? Apparently it's gotten rave reviews :)

I'm only judging from reports on globalsecurity.org really- but the higher-ups must've been really sick of the M60 to replace it with the FN MAG which has been around for about as long.

Posted: 2002-11-17 01:08am
by Knife
Vympel wrote:
Knife wrote:
My MOS was 0331 so I am aquinted with the 60. The only changes for the E3 was a lighter barrel that most units just replaced with the older heavier barrels. Also the gas system on the D was a one directon type piston that the E model corrected by having it omi directional(not sure on terminology) so that any way you put the thing in the gas system, it would work. Other changes include a change in the styling of the forward hand guard and bi pod assemblies and the ammo satchel holder.

The only two problems with the M60 in my and the other people who I served withs opinion is the spring for the feeding cam. If you took two springs and put them into one gun (as we did on various occasions) the 60 would rock for a very, very long time before a misfire occured. The other small problem was the stupid leaf spring that held the trigger assemble on the reciever assemblely. It sucked, other than that everone who ever used a 60 just loved the thing.
Have you used an M240? Apparently it's gotten rave reviews :)

I'm only judging from reports on globalsecurity.org really- but the higher-ups must've been really sick of the M60 to replace it with the FN MAG which has been around for about as long.
Yes, my last two year in we used and I instructed on the M240G. If it has gotten rave reviews, I have not heard them. It is heavier, unwieldly, has the same range(yes its effective range went up but that is just cuz the sight has a higher range, the max range is the same), and last I saw has a lack of forward handguards to alow an assualt fire option.

As a vehicle mounted weapon, I am sure it is niffty. But for a grunt, everybody I knew and had disscussions with thought it was not all that great.

Posted: 2002-11-17 01:11am
by Vympel
Knife wrote:
Yes, my last two year in we used and I instructed on the M240G. If it has gotten rave reviews, I have not heard them. It is heavier, unwieldly, has the same range(yes its effective range went up but that is just cuz the sight has a higher range, the max range is the same), and last I saw has a lack of forward handguards to alow an assualt fire option.

As a vehicle mounted weapon, I am sure it is niffty. But for a grunt, everybody I knew and had disscussions with thought it was not all that great.
Why'd they replace the M60 then- especially with a weapon that is around the same age? Just doesn't make sense- especially if you can use the older heavy barrels.

Posted: 2002-11-17 01:22am
by Uraniun235

Posted: 2002-11-17 01:29am
by Knife
Vympel wrote:
Knife wrote:
Yes, my last two year in we used and I instructed on the M240G. If it has gotten rave reviews, I have not heard them. It is heavier, unwieldly, has the same range(yes its effective range went up but that is just cuz the sight has a higher range, the max range is the same), and last I saw has a lack of forward handguards to alow an assualt fire option.

As a vehicle mounted weapon, I am sure it is niffty. But for a grunt, everybody I knew and had disscussions with thought it was not all that great.
Why'd they replace the M60 then- especially with a weapon that is around the same age? Just doesn't make sense- especially if you can use the older heavy barrels.
Actually I don't know. Someone somewhere thought it was better, but the guy at the bottom that actually used the thing didn't like it much. The Marine Corps, as I have been lead too believe, got alot of the 240G's from the Army. So I can only assume(don't like to but...) that it was a compatibility or a standardization thing for the DoD.