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Pavel wrote:

verilon wrote:How do you deal with it?

I know all too many people that cut, and I myself have had the urge to do so. I write poetry, to try to let it out...but when I have not the time or the resources to do so, I think.....cut.

Get a fine small refractor, drive up alone to the nearest clean sky, put up a tent and drink a beer or two(only) while observing the cosmos, look for deep space objects like spiral galaxies and open clusters, and think how much the universe is huge and how much this dirty planet is small and solitaire floating, floating in space, you will discover that it ain't worth worying about a thing in life but yourself.
the next day go to a drug-store and buy a couple of lexotanil tablets and calm your nerves down and keep observing for a few nights with your freinds and get back to me.
(Pavelism)

salm wrote:hmm... i dont like the medication idea. i did my social service with mentally sick people and the medication (leponex, zyprexa) turns them into emtionless, sleepy zombies.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:

salm wrote:hmm... i dont like the medication idea. i did my social service with mentally sick people and the medication (leponex, zyprexa) turns them into emtionless, sleepy zombies.

The new meds for depression are much better. I'm on Effexor now, and all the side effects went away in the first few weeks. Even with it, this last semester has been rough. Without it I'd be in a world of shit. My advice to Verilon is to get medicated. It'll be like night and day.

Darth Wong wrote:Does any of that work? Personally, I've always been a little skeptical of these "distract yourself" solutions. If you believe in yourself and your own self-worth, I don't see why you should be depressed, and that comes from within. Of course, never having been clinically depressed, I suppose I could be totally off-base here.

verilon wrote:

Drew wrote:

verilon wrote: It's not that simple.....I need a single-person outlet.

Ain't nothing simple about it Sometimes talking with others with the same problems can be a big help. Instead of being shocked or judgmental, they'll just go "yeah, been there too". Mostly, they can listen with a knowing ear.

Again, its a weird thing....I don't like groups.

salm wrote:yup, spend some time doing sports instead of message boards.

Drewcifer wrote:

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:

salm wrote:hmm... i dont like the medication idea. i did my social service with mentally sick people and the medication (leponex, zyprexa) turns them into emtionless, sleepy zombies.

The new meds for depression are much better. I'm on Effexor now, and all the side effects went away in the first few weeks. Even with it, this last semester has been rough. Without it I'd be in a world of shit. My advice to Verilon is to get medicated. It'll be like night and day.

Yes, the new meds are considerably better. Too, it can take some time to find the right Rx. I don't know the situation of the people you worked with salm, but if meds are making someone incoherent or incapacitated, then a different dosage or even different medication is indicated. Once the right medication and dosage are found, it can make a world of difference.

Darth Wong wrote:Does any of that work? Personally, I've always been a little skeptical of these "distract yourself" solutions. If you believe in yourself and your own self-worth, I don't see why you should be depressed, and that comes from within. Of course, never having been clinically depressed, I suppose I could be totally off-base here.

You're right, merely distracting yourself doesn't work. And for some, cutting is an extreme example of that. Cutting changes your brain chemistry, releasing endorphins and adrenalin, which can often make the person feel better in the short run. But it's obviously not a solution.

I think the idea is that for mild depression, sometimes a change of pace will get you out of the rut. You 'forget' for a bit that you're depressed and often your head and heart tag along for the ride, so to speak. Anything to shake up that brain chemistry.

For more severe cases, a new activity can be vital, especially something physical and disciplined like Aikkido or Tai Chi. The continuity and structure is good for the brain, the fellowship can provide emotional support, and learning a new skill can be a source of accomplishment, self-confidence, and emotional strength.

Or in other words, using destructive notions and feelings in a creative, constructive manner.

salm wrote:so basicly cutting is sports for dumbasses who are too lazy to go running?

People who self-injure tend to be dysphoric -- experiencing a depressed mood with a high degree of irritability and sensitivity to rejection and some underlying tension -- even when not actively hurting themselves. The pattern found by Herpertz (1995) indicates that something, usually some sort of interpersonal stressor, increases the level of dysphoria and tension to an unbearable degree. The painful feelings become overwhelming: it's as if the usual underlying uncomfortable affect is escalated to a critical maximum point. "SIB has the function of bringing about a transient relief from these [high levels of irritability and sensitivity to rejection]," Herpertz said. This conclusion is supported by the work of Haines and her colleagues.

In a fascinating study, Haines et al. (1995) led groups of self-injuring and non-self-injuring subjects through guided imagery sessions. Each subject experienced the same four scenarios in random order: a scene in which aggression was imagined, a neutral scene, a scene of accidental injury, and one in which self-injury was imagined. The scripts had four stages: scene-setting, approach, incident, and consequence. During the guided imagery sessions, physiological arousal and subjective arousal were measured.

The results were striking. Subject reactions across groups didn't differ on the aggression, accident, and neutral scripts. In the self-injury script, though, the control groups went to a high level of arousal and stayed there throughout the script, in spite of relaxation instructions contained in the "consequences" stage. In contrast, self-injurers experienced increased arousal through the scene-setting and approach stages, until the the decision to self-injure was made. Their tension then dropped, dropping even more at the incident stage and remaining low.

These results provide strong evidence that self-injury provides a quick, effective release of physiological tension, which would include the physiological arousal brought on by negative or overwhelming psychological states. As Haines et al. say

Self-mutilators often are unable to provide explanations for their own self-mutilative behavior. . . . Participants reported continued negative feelings despite reduced psychophysiological arousal. This result suggests that it is the alteration of psychophysiological arousal that may operate to reinforce and maintain the behavior, not the psychological response. (1995, p. 481)
In other words, self-injury may be a preferred coping mechanism because it quickly and dramatically calms the body, even though people who self-injure may have very negative feelings after an episode. They feel bad, but the overwhelming psychophysiological pressure and tension is gone. Herpertz et al. (1995) explain this:

We may surmise that self-mutilators usually disapprove of aggressive feelings and impulses. If they fail to suppress these, our findings indicate that they direct them inwardly. . . . This is in agreement with patients' reports, where they often regard their self-mutilative acts as ways of relieving intolerable tension resulting from interpersonal stressors. (p. 70).
Herman (1992) says that most children who are abused discover that a serious jolt to the body, like that produced by self-injury, can make intolerable feelings go away temporarily.

Brain chemistry may play a role in determining who self-injures and who doesn't. Simeon et al. (1992) found that people who self-injure tend to be extremely angry, impulsive, anxious, and aggressive, and presented evidence that some of these traits may be linked to deficits in the brain's serotonin system. Favazza (1993) refers to this study and to work by Coccaro on irritability to posit that perhaps irritable people with relatively normal serotonin function express their irritation outwardly, by screaming or throwing things; people with low serotonin function turn the irritability inward by self-damaging or suicidal acts. Zweig-Frank et al. (1994) also suggest that degree of self-injury is related to serotonin dysfunction.

These results provide strong evidence that self-injury provides a quick, effective release of physiological tension, which would include the physiological arousal brought on by negative or overwhelming psychological states. As Haines et al. say

You're right, merely distracting yourself doesn't work. And for some, cutting is an extreme example of that. Cutting changes your brain chemistry, releasing endorphins and adrenalin, which can often make the person feel better in the short run. But it's obviously not a solution.

salm wrote:so do sports. the only difference is that it takes longer and makes you sweat.

Drewcifer wrote:...a new activity can be vital, especially something physical and disciplined like Aikkido or Tai Chi. The continuity and structure is good for the brain, the fellowship can provide emotional support, and learning a new skill can be a source of accomplishment, self-confidence, and emotional strength.

Drewcifer wrote:

salm wrote:so do sports. the only difference is that it takes longer and makes you sweat.

Agreed, but for someone contemplating self-mutilation, a simple run around the block won't help.

Depression is NOT laziness; it is a very complex set of problems, both emotional and physical.
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yes, a simple run wont help, but going to a sport club on a regular basis is probably a good start. besides getting movement you also get to know new people which is always interesting and fun. just as you said above.

<quote>

I just tire of people saying "just go out and do something, you'll snap out of it".
It's not always that simple. Sometimes, yes, but often not.

Drewcifer wrote:Oh, hell yeah, a run is better than a cut any day!!

I didn't mean to jump down your throat, I just wanted to make the point that depression /= laziness.

Too, I'm terribly uncoordinated, and sports are usually very frustrating for me. And for some, especially those of us that were 'nerds' in school, it's hard to relate to the 'jocks'. I've gotten over most of that, but it kept me away from sports for a long time.

At any rate, I think we agree, just from different perspectives.

Cheers

Drewcifer wrote:As a kid, being uncoordinated made me the target of taunts from coaches and other players. I was very sensitive, and took it all as personal attacks and wanted no part of anything sports-related. I realized later that although some of it was mean-spirited, most of it was meant to build character, pushing me to do better.

Yeah, the adults at the YMCA or similar club are all there for same reasons: health, self-improvement etc. It just took me a long time to see that.

But I'm older and wiser now and not quite as nerdy

It's cool now, I shoot some hoops with my buddies, and I love drinking a beer and throwing a football around in the backyard on a hot summer day. Although sometimes we don't get around to the football part...

verilon wrote:Salm: I just don't like sports. First off, the only sports I like, I can't really get involved in anymore. Second, I don't go running because I have terrible shinsplints. And beer won't help.

AALCS: No video games, and I am not a violent person.

Next of Kin wrote:

verilon wrote:Salm: I just don't like sports. First off, the only sports I like, I can't really get involved in anymore. Second, I don't go running because I have terrible shinsplints. And beer won't help.

AALCS: No video games, and I am not a violent person.

Verilon, why don't you try an aikido class...not quite a sport and not quite violent.

verilon wrote:
If I can manage the time. I'll see what I can do within the next couple of weeks.

Next of Kin wrote:

verilon wrote:
If I can manage the time. I'll see what I can do within the next couple of weeks.

So you're seriously tossing around the idea? Excellent! If you are interested here's a link to learn more about what Aikido is all about:

http://www.aikidofaq.com

verilon wrote:
You didn't think I would? Hell, I was even the one that suggested Aikkido in the first place!

Next of Kin wrote:

verilon wrote:You didn't think I would? Hell, I was even the one that suggested Aikkido in the first place!

No, there were never any seeds of doubt on my part. I missed the part where you suggested Aikido as a choice and I was pleased when you said that you might try it (if time becomes available).

but I am definitely willing ot try karate or aikkido or tae kwon do or something like that.