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Well, he's certainly proven that he's biased beyond the point of rationality on male/female issues, as per the OP of the thread.

PS. On suicides, a successful suicide is always worse than an attempted one. And on driving, the statistics clearly show that men are the most aggressive and dangerous drivers.

Dalton wrote: Well, since you described it as a "claim" and I have no other recourse but to assume that you're claiming that female drivers are worse than male drivers...

I used the word more loosly, I guess that's where we're getting our real argument from. Poor word choice on my part I guess.

Dalton wrote:Yes, rather hypocritical of me, isn't it? Well, aside from my opinion as an admin of this board, I find that people who have gender-based biases, not to mention biases against the entire human race, tend to fall somewhere in the clown/jackass milieu, as it were. But in my case, calling you a "jackass", which is an insult designed to display my general opinion of you, is far different than you making a claim that women are poorer drivers than men based on "personal experience", which seems to be your catchall phrase for avoiding scrutiny.

Aside from my opinion as an administrator of this board? what are you trying to pull rank? Does an administrator's opinion hold more weight? Is it more valid? Everyone has gender based biases. Whoever it was earlier who was shocked and amazed when I said women drive aggressively has a gender based bias: women don't drive aggressively, men do. Why is this ok but my saying that women drive aggressively is not?

Everyone also has biases against the entire human race. Do you think people are inherently good? Inherently evil? Do you think people are overall moral, immoral? Do you think the human race in general is violent or peaceful? These are all biases and to deny that you have them (good or bad) is simply that- denial.

And yes, you making a statement about your entire opinion of me in general based on one encounter where I listed my knee-jerk reaction biases is much different than me making a statement based on numerous experiences. Who is being more of a jackass?

And saying "personal" experience isn't a cop out or catchall. I'm talking about my own personal experience and how that has contributed to my personal bias. I wasn't trying to argue a fact. You are the one who approached it as so, and wrongly at that. If there is a thread about phobias and I list one would you like me to provide empirical evidence for it?

Dalton wrote:Then again, you did admit that it was an irrational bias...but if it is irrational, then why are you looking for evidence to support it? I guess that's my fault.

I'm not. I'm not looking for evidence to support my bias against women as drivers. I'm looking for evidence to support my claim (yes, claim) that women get into more minor accidents than men do. It is similar so I can understand the confusion, but it is not the same thing. Getting into more minor accidents does not necessarily mean "worse". "Worse" is a matter of opinion, "more" is a matter of fact.

Darth Wong wrote:PS. On suicides, a successful suicide is always worse than an attempted one. And on driving, the statistics clearly show that men are the most aggressive and dangerous drivers.

Worse is a matter of opinion, but you're telling me that if you had x amount of money to donate to either a group that helped with men's depression or women's you'd give it to men because they are more successful even though many more women try to kill themselves?

As for driving statistics, I agree, they do clearly show that men are more aggressive and more dangerous. I never said otherwise. Just because men are more aggressive does not mean that women are not aggressive drivers ever. And more dangerous, yes, I've said that too. Men are more likely to get into a fatal accident at higher speeds than women are.

Women on the other hand are more likely to get into accidents in general than men are. The difference is women's accidents are more often dings and scrapes as a result of parking lot accidents and low speed accidents.

Women also statistsically drive less often than men do yet still get into more accidents than men. An "accident" includes anything from a fatal accident to a bumper dent.

The reason women have lower car insurance is because, although they get into more accidents their accidents usually are less sever and thus cost insurance companies less money.

I'm not arguing which is worse. All I am saying is that women get into more accidents than men, but men get into more fatal/high cost accidents. Better or worse, that isn't what I'm arguing about.

solitaryshell wrote:

Dalton wrote:Well, since you described it as a "claim" and I have no other recourse but to assume that you're claiming that female drivers are worse than male drivers...

I used the word more loosly, I guess that's where we're getting our real argument from. Poor word choice on my part I guess.

Ah yes, so it's not a "claim" now, just a belief?

solitaryshell wrote:

Dalton wrote:Yes, rather hypocritical of me, isn't it? Well, aside from my opinion as an admin of this board, I find that people who have gender-based biases, not to mention biases against the entire human race, tend to fall somewhere in the clown/jackass milieu, as it were. But in my case, calling you a "jackass", which is an insult designed to display my general opinion of you, is far different than you making a claim that women are poorer drivers than men based on "personal experience", which seems to be your catchall phrase for avoiding scrutiny.

Aside from my opinion as an administrator of this board? what are you trying to pull rank? Does an administrator's opinion hold more weight? Is it more valid?

Oh, not necessarily, no. But I do see a lot of jackasses come and go, a lot of them by my own hand, in fact, and you fit the mold rather well.

solitaryshell wrote:Everyone has gender based biases.

They do? I'd love to see the proof for that sweeping generalization.

solitaryshell wrote:Whoever it was earlier who was shocked and amazed when I said women drive aggressively has a gender based bias: women don't drive aggressively, men do. Why is this ok but my saying that women drive aggressively is not?

Hrm, I've looked through the thread and I don't see this claim anywhere. I guess that's why I didn't catch it. I do see where Discombobulated asks you a question regarding women being "too aggressive on the road" but nowhere does she make the claim that you are accusing her of making. That is a strawman, and we don't like those.

solitaryshell wrote:Everyone also has biases against the entire human race. Do you think people are inherently good? Inherently evil? Do you think people are overall moral, immoral? Do you think the human race in general is violent or peaceful? These are all biases and to deny that you have them (good or bad) is simply that- denial.

*cocks eyebrow* Amazing, how you try to shift to the offense here. You yourself agreed that you could be considered a misanthrope. You stated that you were biased against "people" in a rather general fashion; sadly I cannot read minds, so I guess I didn't catch your true meaning.

solitaryshell wrote:And yes, you making a statement about your entire opinion of me in general based on one encounter where I listed my knee-jerk reaction biases is much different than me making a statement based on numerous experiences. Who is being more of a jackass?

Why, you are. My, isn't this easy! You made a claim and have so far failed to back it up with anything but anecdotal evidence. I made a claim and so far have backed it up with your behavior in this thread. My initial opinion of you being a jackass was just that, an initial opinion. That opinion is now a lot more solid.

solitaryshell wrote:And saying "personal" experience isn't a cop out or catchall. I'm talking about my own personal experience and how that has contributed to my personal bias. I wasn't trying to argue a fact. You are the one who approached it as so, and wrongly at that. If there is a thread about phobias and I list one would you like me to provide empirical evidence for it?

Watch your pants if you're going to backpedal so fast. Remember, you're the one who said you were making a claim. Oh wait, I forgot; it's just a personal bias and you used the wrong words.

solitaryshell wrote:

Dalton wrote:Then again, you did admit that it was an irrational bias...but if it is irrational, then why are you looking for evidence to support it? I guess that's my fault.

I'm not. I'm not looking for evidence to support my bias against women as drivers. I'm looking for evidence to support my claim (yes, claim) that women get into more minor accidents than men do. It is similar so I can understand the confusion, but it is not the same thing. Getting into more minor accidents does not necessarily mean "worse". "Worse" is a matter of opinion, "more" is a matter of fact.

Ah, but see, if someone got into more accidents than someone else, then they would be, by definition, worse at driving, since what is usually regarded as a good driver doesn't get into accidents.

I'm willing to let you go, though, since you now seem to be telling me that you're not actually making any claim.