CHRISTIANITY HATERS

[Orion]

Oh dear Zarove. You couldn't win this debate over at B5 tech so you braught it over hear. My, my, I get surprised by things everyday.

[Stormbringer]

A fundamentalist christian is one not defined by talign the Bible literally as most do not, they rewirte it, they are fundamentalists because they take literally and strictly there beleifs in certain things that define the premise for there worship, and often do NOT follow the Bible. In fact literaly translating the Bible as a history book does not make one a fundamentalist, rather, adhering to the church rules of order makes you a fundamentalist.

A fundamentalist Christian is one that interprets the Biblie literally. That is the definition, if don't like the label change your religion.

No, that was the gist of the imposed argument, I said Hitler said christianity will nto stand in the third riech. A far cry form saying " Hitler is bad, christians are good, so hitler cant be christian"- If hitler was a christian why woudl he want to see an end of the faith which he called an absurdity that went agaisnt nature?

Except out Mein Kampf there are passages where professes his Christianity. Some second hand propoganda does cut it, shit head. I'd consider Hitler a more reliable source on his religious beliefs than you.

And you're whole basis for refuting me is that his behavious isn't christian. Well, I hate to tell you but crushing and kill the opposition is a tactic militant christians have practiced for a long time. So what it boils down to is you see (rightly) Hitler as a maniac but you refuse to acknowledge he's christian because he's a bad man.

Also not true, I said that Christian history is not more bloody than the rest. it was claimed in anothe rthread and I think this one, that christianity has doen more harm than any single force in existance, which isnt true.

It wasnt an excuse for anything, it was an example of flawed thinking.

So you acknowledge Christianity has done immense harm yet try to weasel out of it by saying others have done as bad. Did you ever consider that still makes Christianity and the Roman Catholic in particular guilty? Because Christianity has down immense harm, probably more than any other group and with little of the benefits of say Rome.

And you're excuse for all that is "yah, well others have done bad stuff too!" Well, it's bullshit, they are guilty too and it doesn't let Christianity off the hook.

It is not innaccurate, its whats hapening now. Atheists on this board are using swear words and force, callign me stupid, and tryign to subvery whatever I say rather than put up a logical argument. You distort events, lie, say i am lying, call me an idiot, and use ridcule and slam tactics, exactly what causes problems in the first place.

You're being asked to defend the idea you preach and you distort and twist the truth like a pretzel. You evade and use semantics and dishonest tactics all the while saying you're right!

So we insult you, boo hoo . Like I give a damn! The rule around here that you back it up or shut the fuck up. You've spouted shit and it's been torn apart.

Communism was an atheistic idea. Reguardless of how " its a false analogy" the truth is the state was atheist.



Atheism is a part of Communist doctrine, that's true. I never denied it. But that's not why the USSR or Red China killed millions. That was simple security and power games. Nothing to do with atheism and certainly not some religious purge like you wish to portray it.

Thus showing that to do away with religion dosnt do away woth corruption. And that atheisim dosnt lead to a happier healthier mindset.

No one but an idiot would. But then again we wouldn't have had things like the Crusades, or the Inquistion. People will still kill, but why give them a reason.

Quote:
Joshua 6:17-21 (NIV): The city and all that is in it are to be devoted to the LORD ... But keep away from the devoted things ... All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the LORD and must go into his treasury. When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so every man charged straight in, and they took the city. They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it--men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.


A time of war and you object? If we use Nuclear force, as Bush wants, then wont we be doign the same nowadays?

To wholesale sluaghter of the innocent? Damn, straight you fucking idiot! What the hell is wrong with you? Of course, I'd object to the wholesale murder of thousands!

And I am agaisnst the use of nuclear weapons. I'd hate to see them used, ever. But just because they might be doesn't make it right or moral.

Quote:
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 (NIV): However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.
The above explains itsself.

Yup, God advocates genocide lest his people be exposed to other religious ideas. That's kind of why I provided the quote.

The rest are paul, and I do nto see paul as authorative as he was not a disiple. ( now you wll say picking and chosing, but its true.)

So you do admit the Bible is falliable. If something included in it is wrong then all of it could be wrong. You admit that men have added to it and that it contains something other than the word of god.

So in otherwards, the Bible is no better an authority on the nature of the Universe than L. Ron Hubbard's mass produced religion.

[ZAROVE]

Orion what are you talkign about?

[Orion]

We were having a very similar discussion at B5 tech. com where you and adera were trying to argue this very thing, the ligicality and morality of the Bible. In my opinion you two were losing, but the debate went unfinnished because it was drowned out by other things. (Dask going crazy with his moderator powers)

I just find it funny how you'd bring this debate over here and expect to win, this place is much less tolerant to religous thinking than B5tech.

[Darth Servo]

For all information on the woman marrying her rapist, I said it made sence to the culture of the time.

And it obviously made sense to the god those people worshipped since he put it in his holy book.

As to satan, I said the world does nto mean planet, and you counter that it does, yet we live on the new world if we live in the americas, this was called " the new world" nto because people thiought it was another planet, but because the word world has changed.

The passage actually says, "all the kingdoms of the world". In order to see all the kingdoms, you need to see the entire globe.

As to the mountin, why not take him there?

Because 2000 years ago, people thought the world was flat and much smaller than it really is. They thought the Roman Empire was essentially the entire world.

I am a bigot because I beelive a behaviour is destructive? dispite claism to the cntrary, there is no gay Gene, and gays do suffer sheroterlifespans accordign to a recent american census poll.

You never ask "why" gays would have a shorter life span than straights. Could it be because of all the harassment they receive from "good" Bible thumping Christians? hmmm?

I am also opposed to smoking. But as to bigotry, well I wont not talk to gays becase there gay, nor do I insult them, you however insult me.

Smoking clearly has adverse affects on ones health. A strong causal relationship can be seen with smoking. You need to demonstrate some kind of a causal relationship between beign gay and shortened lifespans if you want to compare them.

At leats get it right, its not " a woman must marry her rapist" as in any raed woman must marry her rapist, only virgins, and it was a sign of the anceint past. Then again, askign you to look into the anceint world and seing it for what it is, is too much to ask.

And according to the "good book" God approved of that "sign of the ancient past" along with all the other atrocities committed by "the chosen people" of the old testament.

There ar emany black christians you know. Christianity isnt a white only club, and racism isnt as clear in the Bibel as you claim wither.

Yet the Jews are repeatedly given preferential treatment in both old and new testaments. There are more races than just 'black' and 'white' you know.

No. We simply state that there are branches of Christianity, like any religion that teach hatred and prejudice. We state that the bible should not be taken literally and is rife with "facts" that have been thoroughly debunked.

And yet until the last century or two, anytime a new branch would spring up, all the other sects would unite to exterminate it.

Facts such as...? the flat earth argument is silly, yet you will say I am an idiot for sayign otherwise. There are no facts that have been debunked in the Bible, whih is mostly narrative.

Theres more to the Bible flat Earth argument than just Matt 4.
According to 1 Sam 2:8, the Earth has pillars
1 Chronicles 16:30, the Earth doesn't move.
Job 9:6, the Earth is on pillars and doesn't move.
Job 26:11, heaven is on pillars.
Job 38:4-6, the Earth has a Foundation, complete with cornerstone!
Psalms 18:15 the Earth is on a Foundation that was actually discovered!
Psalms 93:1 the Earth doesn't move
Psalms 104:5 the Earth is on a foundation and doesn't move
Isaiah 11:12 the Earth has four corners
Isaiah 13:10 the Earth doesn't move
Ezekiel 7:2 the Earth has four corners
Daniel 2:35 a mountain fills the whole earth which is only possible if the Earth is flat.
Dan 4:10-11, 20 a tree is tall enough to be seen from the entire Earth which is only possible if the Earth is flat.
Micah 6:2 the Earth is on foundations and doesn't move
Hebrews 1:10 the Earth is on a foundation and doesn't move
Revelation 7:1 John sees the four corners of the Earth

[neoolong]

As to satan, I said the world does nto mean planet, and you counter that it does, yet we live on the new world if we live in the americas, this was called " the new world" nto because people thiought it was another planet, but because the word world has changed.

Except there is no scripture that backs that up now is there?

As to the mountin, why not take him there?

To supposedly show him everything doofus. And you have still avoided the question.

1. Considering that the world is our planet it doesn't work to say it only worked back then, also considering you are supposed to take the Bible literally.

I said the meaning of the word changed. Not that things worked diffeent naturallisticaly.

Ah, and your evidence for this is what?

2. And it would be pointless to go to the top of a mountain if it was just a vision. Also, it didn't say that in the Bible. You are the one interpreting it. Looks like you aren't as much of a literalist as you claim to be. Liar.

I said I beleive the events of the Bible are true, thus I am a literalist, just not a fundamentalist, and not a liar, and if there was a poin to it or not, many prophets and seers have been taken to mountaintops, like Moses for instance when he reieved the ten commandments.

Pointless or no, its what happened.

And you have avoided the question. You are adding to it to make your own version of the story true. Which is rather contradictory with your whole literalist line. Liar.

3. An equivalent of a hologram? And this is backed up in scripture how? Or is it something you are pulling out of your ass again? Moron.

Yes, it is, the whole strpy...

Matthew 4

1. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
12. Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13. And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16. The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
18. And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
19. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
20. And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
21. And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
22. And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
23. And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
25. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.


Less than what you say is there and more than what you know

And all it says is that he went through some trials. Nothing about a vision or some holodeck. You're still adding shit in, moron.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I was going to comment in this thread, but Zarove's spelling killed my eyes and now I'm typing by feel.

I've got to agree with you there. No point in wasting braincells trying to decipher his random typing.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am a bigot because I beelive a behaviour is destructive? dispite claism to the cntrary, there is no gay Gene, and gays do suffer sheroterlifespans accordign to a recent american census poll.

You shouldnt have said that yu fuking asshat! It just so happens that I am gay. This will be fun


First. Homosexual behavior is not destructiem by itself. The fact that some dont practice safe sex means nothing.

Second. There is a gay gene. I will even post the paper for you.

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relag ... vgene.html



12/12/96


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scientists identify gene for sexual behavior in male flies
A team of scientists from four universities has isolated the gene that controls most or all sexual behavior in male fruit flies. Their research is the first to pinpoint a single gene that works in the brain to govern nearly all aspects of a complex behavior in adult animals.

The scientists from Stanford, the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, Brandeis University and Oregon State University report their findings in the Dec. 13 issue of the journal Cell.


The gene fru governs the fly's courtship and mating ritual, including its courting song. Here a male with a normal copy of the gene lifts one wing and vibrates it in a rhythmic song, as recorded on an oscilloscope below the drawing. Males with a slight alteration, or mutation, of the fru gene have subtle changes in their songs. With severe mutations, the flies do not sing a note, though they can flick their wings and can use them to fly. (courtesy: Jeffrey Hall, Brandeis University)



Geneticists have known for years that the gene, called fruitless and nicknamed fru, influences sexual orientation in the fly Drosophila melanogaster. Male flies with some mutations in the fru gene become bisexual ­ they cannot tell other males from female flies when courting. With this research, the team of geneticists cloned and isolated the fru gene, and showed that it controls much more than the male's choice of partners.

They showed that the fru gene is:

A master gene that controls not only sexual orientation but all, or nearly all, the steps in the male fly's elaborate courtship ritual ­ from its first interest in a female through its rhythmic courting song, to its attempts to mate.
Part of a group of genes that work together to govern all aspects of sex in these flies, including development of male and female organs.
At work in a very small fraction of the cells in the fly's brain. The properties of the fru gene's target neurons suggest that they carry out command-and-control functions to set up and coordinate the complex events of male courtship and copulation.
"There has been speculation recently that no single gene could control a complex behavior. This work shows that a gene can do so ­ at least in fruit flies," said Stanford biologist Bruce Baker, one of the four principal investigators of the study.



The gene fru governs the fly's courtship and mating ritual, including the male fly's ability to recognize a female. Males with a normal copy of the gene, at right, pursue only females. Males with an alteration, or mutation, of the fru gene, at left, court both sexes, and sometimes form chains with each male courting the one in front of it. (courtesy: Jeffrey Hall, Brandeis University)



The lead author on the Cell article is Lisa Ryner, a research associate in Baker's lab at Stanford. The principal investigators on the National Institutes of Health-sponsored study are Baker, professor of biological sciences at Stanford and an expert on the molecular genetics of sexual differentiation; Steven Wasserman, associate professor of molecular biology and oncology at UT Southwestern, an expert on the molecular genetics of fertility; Jeffrey Hall, professor of biology at Brandeis University and an expert on genetics and fly sexual behavior; and Barbara Taylor, assistant professor of biology at Oregon State University and an expert on genetics and the fly's nervous system.

Co-authors include postdoctoral research fellow Stephen F. Goodwin and research associate Adriana Villella of Brandeis; postdoctoral fellow Anuranjan Anand of Stanford; and Diego H. Castrillon, formerly an M.D./Ph.D. student at UT Southwestern, now a resident in pathology at Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard University Medical School.

"These findings on fru provide a starting point for a whole host of other studies, to learn how sexual behavior and sexual orientation are specified by genes and controlled by the nervous system," Wasserman said.

"Our data so far suggest that fru is involved in interactions between a handful of specific brain cells that in some way direct the various steps of male courtship behavior and copulation," Taylor said. "This is an important tool ­ here we have a gene that allows us to extract some behavioral element and then go into the nervous system and see how it is organized."

"This is a spectacular example of the value of open exchange at scientific conferences," said Wasserman. The labs joined forces at an international meeting when he and Baker realized that each of their groups had half the essential information needed to clone and understand the role of the fru gene. "We had a map, and they knew where the crucial point in the map was," Wasserman said. "To go on and understand how the gene works called for the skills of the other two labs as well."



Important evidence that fru is the gene normally controlling most male sex behavior in the fruit fly comes from the fact that it fits in a hierarchy of genes that governs all other aspects of sex as well. In Drosophila males, "doublesex" (dsx) commands the development of male sex organs and other male characteristics, while "fruitless" (fru) commands male sexual behavior. Genes higher up in the family tree act to turn off dsx and fru so that female flies do not exhibit male sex organs or male behavior. (courtesy: Bruce Baker, Stanford University)

Could human sexual behavior be commanded by a single gene? So far, no gene similar to fru has been found in humans or other animals. But geneticists have been studying fruit flies for more than 80 years to learn how genes instruct the building of the fly's body and the function of its cells, and insights from that work have already helped explain how the human body develops.

"In any complex organism, brain formation and function must be controlled in part by genes," Hall said. "The question is not whether but how do the actions of a given gene influence some interesting aspect of behavior."

However, he said, "Even if a gene of this sort could be identified in humans, that does not mean it would solely 'determine' behavior. By definition, those actions are also influenced by upbringing and environment ­ even in flies."


-30-

-By Janet Basu-

REPORTERS NOTE: There are several indirect ways in which genes have been found to affect a fly's sexual behavior. For example, last year NIH researchers made headlines when they altered a gene for eye color so that it was expressed in every cell in the fly's body. In some cells, the altered eye-color gene triggered abnormal changes so that male flies courted other males. In contrast, the Dec. 13 Cell paper reports on the characterization of a gene that works within a group of genes governing all aspects of fruit fly sex. The research shows that this gene normally acts in the central nervous system of all male flies to specify sexual behavior.

ART EDITOR: Photos and art to accompany this story are available by anonymous ftp at ftp://36.15.0.227/images ­ look for the "fly art" folder.

All images are embargoed until 5:00 p.m. EST on Thursday, Dec 12.

To obtain a copy of the scientific paper in Cell call (617) 661-7057, ext. 138.





third. Homosexuals do have a shorter lifespan, we do have a higher suicide rate. But could that be because we have to put up with evil litle bigots like you everywhere we go? Oh no that couldnt be it. We are only regularly rejected by friends and family, murdered in the streets by gay bashers, barred from employment, barred from housing, dnied a good education because of the constant harassment. Oh no, we have it easy. We are just the only minority in the United fucking states to not be protected by a universal anti-discrimination law, or a national anti-hatecrime law. No small wonder our lives are shorter.

You better check to make sure there are no queers on a forum before you start spouting idiocy. If you want to dicuss this issue further PM me. Or just continue posting stupidity, i would be happy to smack it down.

AND USE THE FUCKING QUOTE FUNCTION!

[Orion]

lol from a neutral observer

[pillowhead]

And back to Sir Sirius' point that wasn't addressed:

Quote:

Please note, this is an ANCEINT book, and these people wherent of the same mental development we where, the laws fit the culture of the time.

So you are admitting that the bible is obsolete?

Are you conceeding this point, Zarove?

[Coyote]

Judaism by far is worse than Christianity. It is the most Xenophobic, racist religion. It's put itself on a high horse and proclaimed themselves the chosen people of God.

The "Chosen People" belief is not a "Master Race" ideology. It means that in the world to come, ie, the Kingdom of Heaven-- where, incidentally, Judaism teaches that the righteous people of ALL nations (faiths) will have a place in, a tolerance not seen by other religions-- the Jews will be the Priests.

Just like in the real world you have a handful of priests seeing to the needs of many citizens, so in Heaven will all the Jews serve as the priests for everyone else. Includinf the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I'd suppose even atheists as well, since no one was specifically excluded.

"Chosen People" is NOT "Master Race".

[Durandal]

Judaism by far is worse than Christianity. It is the most Xenophobic, racist religion. It's put itself on a high horse and proclaimed themselves the chosen people of God.

The "Chosen People" belief is not a "Master Race" ideology. It means that in the world to come, ie, the Kingdom of Heaven-- where, incidentally, Judaism teaches that the righteous people of ALL nations (faiths) will have a place in, a tolerance not seen by other religions-- the Jews will be the Priests.

God told the Israelites to run into the city of Jericho and invade it because they were the Chosen People, and he was giving them a divine right to run into a town and massacre its inhabitants. The entire history of the Jewish people is built on starting fights with their neighboring countries because they thought they were better than everyone else. "Chosen People" is just a watered down version of "Master Race." It isn't quite as explicit, but they mean the same thing: a select few are better than everyone else.

Just like in the real world you have a handful of priests seeing to the needs of many citizens, so in Heaven will all the Jews serve as the priests for everyone else. Includinf the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. I'd suppose even atheists as well, since no one was specifically excluded.

"Chosen People" is NOT "Master Race".

No one is excluded? Then why did God command the Israelites to brutally butcher their enemies? I don't think that was out of love and acceptance, do you? Or how about Deuteronomy 7:3, where God commands the Israelites to not marry any foreign women or make covenants with foreign people, only to ruthlessly butcher them?

Face it. The ancient Jews did have a "master race" mentality. Read through Deuteronomy sometime to get an idea of just how accepting the Israelites were of other beliefs and just how "equally" they considered everyone.

[XPViking]

With all due respect to my fellow SDnet denizens, but when you are pointing out to Zarove about his spelling, you are nitpicking. It's possible that English is not Zarove's first language. In fact, I don't see anyone pointing out Mr. Bean's typing style and yet it's on par with Zarove's. Also, if you look carefully, some of Zarove's errors are merely transpositional or perhaps due to hastiness.

Mind you, Zarove, the quote function might help in understanding your posts.

XPViking

[Coyote]

No one is excluded? Then why did God command the Israelites to brutally butcher their enemies?

Face it. The ancient Jews did have a "master race" mentality.

The Israelites were hacking out a homeland for themselves and felt they had a right to do so-- in that they were like every other Bronze Age tribe that ruled by the sword and dominated its neighbors through fear and battle. Please don't try to convince me that every other tribe on Earth in the Bronze Age were lovable pacifist sweethearts victimized by the evil, wicked fascist Israelites.

Remember that I am one of the people that think the Bible is not to be taken literally; a collection of tribal campfire stories that either explain and rationalize actions already done or used to rationalize actions about to be taken as a manifestation of "God's Will".

The direct, hands-on experience I have within Judaism, and the many Rabbis I consulted in religious school study over in Israel, is that the Jews are to become the Priests in Heaven, serving everyone else. That is the interpretation of "Chosen People" that is considered official by halakhic (religious authority) law.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Quite Right. Judaism, also still considered the the Egyptians as the bad guys b/c they were enslaved. When in fact they started the whole problem with the Egyptians in the first Place. The Hebrews (known to the Egyptians as the Hykos) invaded and coquered Egypt, and the Egyptians merely liberated themselves, and enslaved the remaining invaders.

The Romans more than Tolerated the Hebrews, but their high horse philosophy, made them start a conflict with Rome which led to them being crushed.

[Coyote]

Quite Right. Judaism, also still considered the the Egyptians as the bad guys b/c they were enslaved.

Right. Should have enjoyed the slavery and kept quiet.

When in fact they started the whole problem with the Egyptians in the first Place. The Hebrews (known to the Egyptians as the Hykos) invaded and coquered Egypt, and the Egyptians merely liberated themselves, and enslaved the remaining invaders.

WTF? Are you thinking of the Hyksos? The "Sea People" was who they were, and they invaded Canaan as surely as they invaded Egypt. While there is no exact way to know who the "Sea Peoples" were, it is largely accepted that they were the Phoenicians...

The Hebrews (Habiru was what they were known as, or "displaced ones") were invited into Egypt as refugees originally but as time went by they were considered an alien population and gradually became slaves.

The Romans more than Tolerated the Hebrews, but their high horse philosophy, made them start a conflict with Rome which led to them being crushed.

They took exception to the insistence of the Romans to place an idol to a Roman god in the Temple of Jerusalem, there's Roman tolerance for you.

Oh, nevermind, when the Jews are told to do something they should just bend over and do it, and if they resist at all then everything that happens to them is all their fault and they deserve it for being 'intolerant'.

I've heard this music before.

[SeebianWurm]

With all due respect to my fellow SDnet denizens, but when you are pointing out to Zarove about his spelling, you are nitpicking. It's possible that English is not Zarove's first language. In fact, I don't see anyone pointing out Mr. Bean's typing style and yet it's on par with Zarove's. Also, if you look carefully, some of Zarove's errors are merely transpositional or perhaps due to hastiness.

Mind you, Zarove, the quote function might help in understanding your posts.

XPViking

Yes, its nitpicking. I admitted as much in my first post in this subject [may have been another thread]. But I feel excused on this one...his words are murder on the eyes

[Sokar]

Zarove - For the love of Christ on a fucking pogo stick , USE A SPELLCHECK PROGRAM, or please get someone , anyone, to proof your posts.........as they are now , they are nigh unintelligible

As to my mindset preventing me from seeing your "truth" , don't even start with me. I have read all the holy books with an open mind and the desire to find that divine spirit that would move me , but alas , all I found was a litany of rules and regulations , puncuated with violence and suffering.
Out of the bible , the only part I find intriguing is the story of Jesus. For me , I find him to be a misunderstood character whos image and message were twisted and perverted after his death. Much like Bapu Ghandi(Mohandas K. Ghandi to the uninitiated)he had figured out the great secret to life, love life and love all thoes around you, treat everyman as your brother, and most importantly live without fear.

But , Christianity isn't about love , its rules and codes and fear of the non-believer , fear of the devil, fear of the stranger, fear of change, fear of the new and diifferent, fear compounded ontop of fear, and I know it sounds kooky, but fear does leat to hate and hate leads to suffering.(I know that was awful, quoting Yoda in a fucking debate but it really does work for me)

Zarove , I know that you think your right , your a rock in the certitude that you have been shown the way , and were all misguided fools on the road to hell , you know, but I ask you , takea good look at what you believe , study it , dissect it , know the people who wrote what your believing (remember MAN wrote the Bible , not God's own hand)do not just blindly follow because someone told you this is the way.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Quite Right. Judaism, also still considered the the Egyptians as the bad guys b/c they were enslaved.

Right. Should have enjoyed the slavery and kept quiet.

When in fact they started the whole problem with the Egyptians in the first Place. The Hebrews (known to the Egyptians as the Hykos) invaded and coquered Egypt, and the Egyptians merely liberated themselves, and enslaved the remaining invaders.

WTF? Are you thinking of the Hyksos? The "Sea People" was who they were, and they invaded Canaan as surely as they invaded Egypt. While there is no exact way to know who the "Sea Peoples" were, it is largely accepted that they were the Phoenicians...

The Hebrews (Habiru was what they were known as, or "displaced ones") were invited into Egypt as refugees originally but as time went by they were considered an alien population and gradually became slaves.

The Romans more than Tolerated the Hebrews, but their high horse philosophy, made them start a conflict with Rome which led to them being crushed.

They took exception to the insistence of the Romans to place an idol to a Roman god in the Temple of Jerusalem, there's Roman tolerance for you.

Oh, nevermind, when the Jews are told to do something they should just bend over and do it, and if they resist at all then everything that happens to them is all their fault and they deserve it for being 'intolerant'.

I've heard this music before.

Okay so some of my points may be off. I'll have to look in on them more. I a little rusty on th topic. But I still think that Judaism is worst than Christianity.

[Coyote]

Judaim started off with quite a bloodthirsty bent to it, but sometime after the Bar-Kockhva Rebellion (120 CE or so) the combat zeal died out of it. After being dispersed to the Diaspora Judaism adapted to more of a merchant base philosophy...

Later, I am of the opinion that with the Crusades and the Inquisition and "Manifest Destiny" concepts Christianity outdid the early milestones of Judaism, and the Islam came and showed us all who the amateurs are.

I hope no one invents another religion: they seem to get more viscious each time.

[Slartibartfast]

God is ebil, he is allays killigg peoble 'n breaks his own rules. Also fundy christians are ebil cuz dey try t' put down any eff'ts of sciess, 'n dey label adeists as the, ERRRR, source of all progglems 'n what is wrong in the, uh, the world. Plus, duuhhhh, dey're sputid.

[Lord_Xerxes]

With all due respect to my fellow SDnet denizens, but when you are pointing out to Zarove about his spelling, you are nitpicking. It's possible that English is not Zarove's first language. In fact, I don't see anyone pointing out Mr. Bean's typing style and yet it's on par with Zarove's. Also, if you look carefully, some of Zarove's errors are merely transpositional or perhaps due to hastiness.

Mind you, Zarove, the quote function might help in understanding your posts.

XPViking

Yes, its nitpicking. I admitted as much in my first post in this subject [may have been another thread]. But I feel excused on this one...his words are murder on the eyes

Zarove's typos/misspells are FAR worse than Bean's! How dare you comapre them!

[Mr Flibble]

I go to sleep and I miss all the fun, anyway better late than never:

I am a bigot because I beelive a behaviour is destructive? dispite claism to the cntrary, there is no gay Gene, and gays do suffer sheroterlifespans accordign to a recent american census poll.

I am also opposed to smoking. But as to bigotry, well I wont not talk to gays becase there gay, nor do I insult them, you however insult me.

I won't go into how you are wrong about there being no gay gene, as Alyrium Denryle has already answered this in his response. I will however address this: The bible passage I cited (Leviticus 19:22) is not a 'godly health warning'. It does not say, 'God's Health Warning: Homosexual behavior can be harmful to your health.' (probably because as stated in Alyrium Denryle's post, it is not harmful to your health). The verse calls it an 'abomination'. That is not the typical bible 'code' for unhealthy, when things are forbidden due to health risks in the bible they are typically described as 'unclean'. Examples of this are the eating of pork (which can have health risks when not cooked properly) and Leviticus 18:19 (Common Bible) "You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness whike she is in her menstrual uncleanness." Which is another example where the probabilty are transmitting disease is higher, and hence a health risk. Leviticus 19:22 however calls gay sex an abomination,that is a strong word, this is clearly trying to say that gay sex is not just unhealthy, but that gay sex is IMMORAL. This indicates that the bible is advocating a bigotted point of view, thus making it evil. This was my point in posting that passage, not to see whether you are bigotted (which your responses, and misconceptions show that you are).

You still have not address the point about the story of Job, which was raised earlier by Sokar and I agreed to it as an example that the bible is evil (although I think it is probably a better example of God being evil if the story is true rather than the bible itself being evil).

No. We simply state that there are branches of Christianity, like any religion that teach hatred and prejudice. We state that the bible should not be taken literally and is rife with "facts" that have been thoroughly debunked.

Facts such as...? the flat earth argument is silly, yet you will say I am an idiot for sayign otherwise. There are no facts that have been debunked in the Bible, whih is mostly narrative.

Personally I find it difficult to consider much of the bible as fact. However to bring up a 'fact' in the bible which has been debunked how about the great flood? Go to Lord Wong's creationism pagse to see that debunked. How about the creation story, which has birds appearing before land animals, and humans being created from dust and ribs? Evolution has debunked these facts, astronomy and geology has debunked the way in which the universe and the world is created in Genesis (see alsoLord Wong's creationism pages). These are all just in the first book of the bible. Even the story of exodous has been challenged. In a documentary called "It ain't necessarily so", it is stated that archaeologists researching biblical times had found little evidence of the hebrews being slaves that fled Egypt and moved to the land of Israel, but rather the evidence pointing to canaanites that were already in the land of Israel that took up kosher food, and started practicing the Jewish religion.

[Majin Gojira]

Argh! Fuck! Why is he so (Insert Diety here)-Damned Verbose! and why can't he spell!?My Brain! It hurts! The stupid!

Using different types of Bullshit to cover up more bullshit does not hide the fact that it's still bullshit.

[Boba Fett]

I know it may sound stupid for the believers but I always thought that the Bible was nothing more than a tool.

I mean the first person who started to write it wanted a little attention and a little personal gain.

So he started to answer questions that people always wanted to know...

...and they believed him because it sounded quite reasonable in that time.

Yes, there's God who created the whole universe in 6 days...

It's easier to believe than build up the evolution story.

Anyway the person who wrote the "first pages" soon became a priest and a leader of the group and that means some kind of power and wealth.

Then of course many came and add their pages...

...and use it for their own gain.

Most of the rules are sounds quite good for me in the Bible but those are opposed by human behaviour.
So it's like the idea of communism (the original one), sounds good but you can't make it.