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Durandal wrote: Here's a novel idea. How about a story that doesn't involve the Jedi, Skywalkers, a new Empire, the Sith or the Force at all?

Wraith Squadron? It only has tiny bits of Force.

And out of the entire EU that's the only one i can think of.

Darth Wong wrote:To be quite brutally honest, this is really no worse than some of the previous comicbook escapades. Come on, who did not groan when finding out that Palpatine reincarnated himself into a backup Empire at Byss that had somehow stayed hidden and passive all that time? That's at least as retarded as anything we're seeing here.

No debate there...or really any of the myriad "1-2-3-4-5-6,000 years before..SW, against an enemy that rivals the EMPIRE!!!111!!!". or heck most of the Republic stories.

I think more of my groaning anyway is this is just more of the same, but instead of the past with "Corrin Vok", it's using Skywalker to sell the tripe.

What the Fuck- I thought that this was Fanfiction .
How the hell can they have something this cliched (A red, Evil Sith minion; a Jedi who's turned his back on the force but has amazing potential; the Mynock; Skywalker descendant with even greater power...) at least DE1 was amusingly over the top (DE2-3 were trash , even when compared to the less than Identity crisis level of DE1).
This is ridicolous, how hard is it to do something relatively new, I mean re-using archetypes is one thing (Look at KOTOR- that did it splendidly, and it's sequel even had some great twists on the SW archetypes (Droid, smuggler, Jedi outcast etc')- but this reads like someone trying to copy the most static crappy comics from the 90's then adding the worst cliche's of the EU on top of it.

Wraith Squadron? It only has tiny bits of Force.

Rogue squadron also no? (Luke only popped up twice and for a short scene).
Also the Han Solo trilogy and the Lando Calrissian sequence (Although the sorceror was a forceuser, but they didn't state it in the series).

Come on, who did not groan when finding out that Palpatine reincarnated himself into a backup Empire at Byss that had somehow stayed hidden and passive all that time?[/quote="Wong, darth"]To be fair, my expectations were set to the lowest possible level by the horrific art.
It wasn't until the sequels with Vampire Dracula Ressurect at will Palpatine that I threw it away before my remaining grey cells commited Seppuku.

Darth Wong wrote:To be quite brutally honest, this is really no worse than some of the previous comicbook escapades. Come on, who did not groan when finding out that Palpatine reincarnated himself into a backup Empire at Byss that had somehow stayed hidden and passive all that time? That's at least as retarded as anything we're seeing here.

With or without the Dracula cape and Incoherent ranting?

Ah, to have gone from the dignity and majesty of Prequel-era Palpatine to the post-ROTS Gibbering Hobgoblin, to the Insane Ranting Vampire Cosplayer.... poor Palpy.

Oh yes. And I'm still grreatly amused by the comic. I think much of the amusement could actually stem from the goofiness of it. I might even be tempted to pick it up for a read (at least when it comes out in TPB)

Like Noble Ire and Knife said, why couldn't they have moved the story a few thousand years into the future? The bloody Republic is 25,000 years old already, and continous galactic civilization a bit older than that. Blatant uncreativity.
And as has been said, I'll bet these idiots don't understand the technological plateau (at least KotOR did, more or less).


Better still, why can't they fucking leave Star Wars alone? Is this inconceivable?!

To be fair, DE was more interesting than most EU. And it had a myriad of Larger-than-ISD-ships and less minimalism, so it gets points automatically for that.

I foresee much angst and flirting with the Dark Side from this. Wash, rinse and repeat.

If only the upcoming Rebellion has some cool battles on display, I'd gladly sacrifice both KOTOR and this Legacy comic for that. :(

My biggest problem about this is not the stupid characters/plot elements but rather it will force the ongoing EU in to a mold. Some things will now have to happen and there will be a time scale for it.

Personally, I think the best comics of late has been the empire series. Gotta love the empire at its most powerful!!

2000AD wrote:

Durandal wrote: Here's a novel idea. How about a story that doesn't involve the Jedi, Skywalkers, a new Empire, the Sith or the Force at all?

Wraith Squadron? It only has tiny bits of Force.

And out of the entire EU that's the only one i can think of.

Starfighters of Adumar was compeltely forceless, IIRC.

That's basically what I want to see more of, the galaxy at war with the Empire on one side and everyone else on the other. Explore different battlefronts and personalities.

Even if I didn't like everything about their Republic series, I still liked seeing battles more or less unfolding chronologically. There still isn't a big cohesive timeline for the GCW like there is for the CW (most battles being connected to the movies or to games, and therefore chockfull of game mechanics).

Even with Rebellion taking place in this era, I still get the impression it's gonna focus on Luke and "a threat that could destroy the Alliance fleet(TM)!!!" In other words, same old, same old.

Zac Naloen wrote:I think an interesting story would be to jump an abritrarily large number into the future, the jedi are extinct, the galaxy in turmoil from pirating and the government simply doesn't care anymore, due to lack of effective law inforcement on a galactic scale, and one "lucky" guy discovers an ancient repository of knowledge of coruscant.


Thats a Star Wars story that would pique my interest.

Ask, and you shall receive.

Similarly, my serious PSW fic, "Deceiver" was written intentionally to not involve any major characters or other cliche plot elements.

weemadando wrote:Similarly, my serious PSW fic, "Deceiver" was written intentionally to not involve any major characters or other cliche plot elements.

Ah, Nolsen, I remember that one.

RebelScum.com wrote: Star Wars: Legacy #0

Writer: John Ostrander
Artists: Jan Duursema, Sean Cooke


Welcome to the beginning of a grand, new chapter in the Star Wars saga!

More than a hundred years have passed since the events in Return of the Jedi and the days of the New Jedi Order. There is a new evil gripping the galaxy, shattering a resurgent Empire and seeking to destroy the last of the Jedi. Even as their power is failing, the Jedi hold to one final hope: the last remaining heir to the Skywalker legacy.

It's a brave new galaxy for Star Wars fans, at once familiar and surprising—interplanetary intrigue and adventure on an epic scale; iconic heroes and villains cast in new roles and caught in surprising new situations. Everything you've loved about Star Wars, but nothing you expect!

This special 25¢ comic sets the stage for the launch of the new Star Wars: Legacy series, which begins in June!

• Continuing Dark Horse’s exciting relaunch of its Star Wars publishing line, celebrating the company’s twentieth anniversary.

Pub. Date: May 17, 2006
Format: Full color, 32 pages
Price: 25¢

It almost sounds like this "resurgent Empire" is cast in a positive light. Which would be interesting.

Everything else just sounds awful though. "...The Jedi hold to one final hope: the last remaining heir to the Skywalker legacy." Bleh.

Durandal wrote:I saw the top half of the cover, and my first thought was that it was some piece-of-shit fan fic or fan film. Instead, it's a piece-of-shit Dark Horse comic.

One of the alluring things about writing in the Star Wars Universe is that it's huge. You can tell any story you want. All we've been getting from these writers is the same fucking story with the same fucking characters over and over again.

Here's a novel idea. How about a story that doesn't involve the Jedi, Skywalkers, a new Empire, the Sith or the Force at all?

Hear, hear. I thought it was fanfiction, too.

nightmare wrote:Addendum: Oh dear God* and the fanboys are already all over it. Including Nathan "Long-Winded" Chronoradio.

*There just isn't a good substitute for that expression.

What did Chronoradio say?

You know, things like this make me angry. I write SW fanfic. I do not create new empires, superweapons, Sith lords, and the like. I don't have to. I can give ten ideas right now that are more original than this. The idea that this is all that professional writers could come up with...

We can only hope that this will be a one-time issue, and will not be expanded upon in multiple novels.

However, the roots of this problem lie far in the past. The major problem is that EU writers have locked themselves into a pattern where major novels always center around major movie chararters (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Mace, and Yoda in the PT era, and Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, and Lando in the post-ROTJ era). The rule was broken twice: the X-wing series by Stackpole and Allston, and the Medstar duology by Michael Reaves and Steve Perry. Not coinicidentally, these are among my favorite novels (not the favorites, but that's just because I'm a big Mara Jade fan). The Stackpole novels in particular have been flamed for their technical aspects, chiefly fighter-wanking, but they did depart from the traditional SW novel dramatically because they focused on minor movie characters, and major characters made short cameo appearances. Ditto for the Reaves-Perry duology, and, to a lesser extent, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous by Sean Stewart, where the stage belongs to Yoda and several EU and minor movie characters, with only a cameo appearance by Anakin and Obi-Wan at the end.

Reusing the same characters leads to lazy writers reusing the same concepts (superweapons, Sith lords, evil empires). This is why some feel one EU novel is pretty much like the other--because, to a degree, it is. Zahn's Thrawn was a rather intriguing and original idea. Anderson's Daala was a poorly executed ripoff (in the JAT, at least. I sort of liked her in Darksaber.

Suppose that novels such the X-Wing series, the Medstar duology and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, involving none, or perhaps just one, of the major movie characters, would have been more prevalent, maybe even the norm, rather than the exception (as they should by pure logic: it's a big galaxy, it shouldn't involve Obi-Wan and Anakin (and later, Luke, Han, and Leia) in everything). I have no doubt that had that been the case, we would be seeing more originality and a better overall quality in the EU.

I repeat: the galaxy is a big place. There's plenty of stuff to write about, in any era. It's that the writers are locked in that mentality of "we must include major movie character who blow up superweapons and fight Sith lords in charge of evil empires." Please. Lucas did that better than anyone else could ever hope to, and rightly so. Think of something new.

Some may complain that such novels wouldn't be "real Star Wars." Bullshit. X-Wing is real Star Wars. Medstar is real Star Wars. KOTOR is real Star Wars. This "Legacy" crap? That's not real Star Wars. That's a cynical attempt to make money of the trademark without putting any real effort into it. "Real Star Wars" (I am not talking about the Lucasfilm canon definitions, I am talking about general acceptance of the material as "real") is whatever the fans decide it to be. Witness how many do not consider Enterprise and Voyager to be "real Star Trek". SW EU appears to be going the same route. That's not good.

I have never been a SW movie purist, and I never really understood them. Until now. Thank you, morons (not the purists, the creators of this dreck).

One more thing: something just caught my eye:

There have been lots of wild theories bandied about regarding the "secret" project that John Ostrander and Jan Duursema (and Dan Parsons and Brad Anderson) have been cooking up.

Any relation to KJA?

I doubt it. He's a colorist who often works with Duusrema and Parsons.

General_Soontir_Fel wrote:KOTOR is real Star Wars.

I strongly disagree. KOTOR is nothing more than D&D in Outer Space, and story- and continuity-wise, a complete rape of Star Wars.

General_Soontir_Fel wrote:

nightmare wrote:Addendum: Oh dear God* and the fanboys are already all over it. Including Nathan "Long-Winded" Chronoradio.

*There just isn't a good substitute for that expression.

What did Chronoradio say?

Far too much and far too little at the same time. He just posted a comment in the Legacy thread. He haven't done anything on his radio show about it yet, but if you head over to his site, I think you will soon find out what I'm talking about.

Knife wrote:

Zac Naloen wrote:I think an interesting story would be to jump an abritrarily large number into the future, the jedi are extinct, the galaxy in turmoil from pirating and the government simply doesn't care anymore, due to lack of effective law inforcement on a galactic scale, and one "lucky" guy discovers an ancient repository of knowledge of coruscant.


Thats a Star Wars story that would pique my interest.

Ask, and you shall receive.

ahh shit, i was gonna start on that idea this weekend!!

Zac Naloen wrote:

Knife wrote:

Zac Naloen wrote:I think an interesting story would be to jump an abritrarily large number into the future, the jedi are extinct, the galaxy in turmoil from pirating and the government simply doesn't care anymore, due to lack of effective law inforcement on a galactic scale, and one "lucky" guy discovers an ancient repository of knowledge of coruscant.


Thats a Star Wars story that would pique my interest.

Ask, and you shall receive.

ahh shit, i was gonna start on that idea this weekend!!

Well, to be fair, I have been slowly working on that story for quite some time. It's been on the 'back burner' as it were. Just seemed a good time to pull it out.

I posted a response over there. Here it is for your benefit.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to Ostrander or the other members of the creative team, but honestly, this series is kind of...sucky. I mean, it just seems like a bad fanfic (like you'd find at fanfiction.net) written by a 15 year old fanboy or even from the mind of SuperShadow. I apologize for the last comment, no one deserves to be associated with any part of SuperShadow.

Cade just seems too much like Quinlan Vos, mixed with Han, Luke and some others to form Quinlan Solo Skywalker. The other thing that bothers me is the whole idea that in a century's time, the galaxy has gone to hell in a handbasket. Truly, Yoda and Obi-Wan would be creating force disturbances from their spinning in their perverbial graves. This story would work great if it were set further into the future, like a thousand years, instead of a mere hundred. If it were set further, the comic would have a wide girth to do things and events in the novels might not have that great of an effect on it.

I honestly wouldn't rely on the posters in the forums (atleast the ones going "omgz, it is teh coolest evar!!!1") to tell you whether or not this will/is going to be a success. The real test would be people from sites like TheForce.net and such. I just have this feeling that LucasFilms could smack this comic with a non-canon label if it contradicts their books or the fan outcry against it is strong.

Again, no disrespect meant for Ostrander and Co. I'm happy they're working on Star Wars. I'm just airing my opinion and giving what I feel is some much needed criticism.

I wonder if I'll get banned from there and how fast it'll be.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

General_Soontir_Fel wrote:KOTOR is real Star Wars.

I strongly disagree. KOTOR is nothing more than D&D in Outer Space, and story- and continuity-wise, a complete rape of Star Wars.

Aside from the one, reasonably easy to retecon factual error (ie, Darth), I honestly don't see how. KOTOR was brilliant in terms of story, and had a genuinely Star Warsy feel, far moreso than any novel set after Vector Prime (even the decent ones). It is the perfect example of how one can effectively continue the universe without pulling out some new superweapon or harping on the mean 'ol Imperials.

Randy Stradley can't handle dissenting voices, it seems:

Attention: Please note that I'm writing this next post not as the "boss" of this forum (which I am), but as a concerned party who actually has some knowlege about the actual events and characters in the upcomng Legacy series. Usually, I try to take comments made here with a grain of salt, and only react as I am about to to obvious examples of willful stupidity.

Kross said:
Quote:
I mean absolutely no disrespect to Ostrander or the other members of the creative team, but honestly, this series is kind of...sucky. I mean, it just seems like a bad fanfic (like you'd find at fanfiction.net) written by a 15 year old fanboy or even from the mind of SuperShadow.


Well, I'm sure John can't possibly take offense to your comments.

I'm sorry, Kross, nothing personal, but given the fact that you have not yet read one single line of actual story from this series, your comments sound like the nattering ramblings of a 15-year-old fanboy with his head up his... Well, you know. But no offense. It's just that, honestly, you seem kind of ... sucky.

Your version of "much needed criticism" doesn't come within shooting distance of rational, critical thought. I mean absolutely no disrespect for you personally. Just your opinions.

Save your altruism until you've at least read an issue.

Look, in all seriousness, I'm sure you love Star Wars and that you're only reacting to something new that you don't understand, and that encountering this unknown has made you fearful. Please relax. Something like Legacy doesn't happen in a vacuum. First, we put the best team on it. Second, I have my own critical eye on it (and I'm far more critical than Jan and John would like, I'm sure). Third, the editors and writers at Del Rey have all read the proposal, and they're all on board with it. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Lucasfilm has put its own stamp of approval on (and made their own adjustments to) the series. We all love Star Wars, too.

And with that, the fapping continued.

Third, the editors and writers at Del Rey have all read the proposal, and they're all on board with it.

Del Ray also allowed the publishing of Dark Journey and Balance Point. My fears are not assuaged.