My response to a homeschool ad. Maybe mean, but am I wrong?

[Darth RyanKCR]

And yet I have talked to God or more accurately Christ. You may dismiss it as a delusion a 7 year old who was frightened at the prospect of haveing heart surgery the next day but how do you explain the effect it had on others around me at the time some of whom were not Christians?

What was this effect, and how the hell do you know it was caused by god? Why did god speaking to you (privately, I assume) affect other people?

I do not "feel positive" that God spoke to me. I know He did.

What were his exact words? What was the pitch of his voice? Did he speak quickly or slowly? Did he sing? Did he whisper? Did he tell you through interpretive dance? Assuming he actually spoke, you should know all these things.

Well in essence He told me not to be afraid that He was there (typical I know) but the voice... From what I remember and this was 28 years ago or so... it was a POWERFUL voice but it spoke gently. I can't explain it better than that. All I remember seeing is that it was a dark room lite by a figure that was a bright yellow. I could get the shape of a person but no features. I still see the image in my mind today.

I reacted and sat up and woke my mother who was in the room with me. A nurse came in and did normal checking and was shocked to see me the way it was. Appearently I was the most peaceful content child she had ever see before such a major surgery and my face was physically glowing. That's what I've been told by the nurse and my mother.

[Surlethe]

Again, DarthRyanKCR, what's the difference between knowing you saw God and being positive you saw God?

[wolveraptor]

Well in essence He told me not to be afraid that He was there (typical I know) but the voice... From what I remember and this was 28 years ago or so... it was a POWERFUL voice but it spoke gently. I can't explain it better than that. All I remember seeing is that it was a dark room lite by a figure that was a bright yellow. I could get the shape of a person but no features. I still see the image in my mind today.

Does he have a lisp? Like that brat from "Gary, Indiana"? I bet he does. It's a proven fact that 94.52394857693845796820938476% of all mass-murderers have lisps.

I reacted and sat up and woke my mother who was in the room with me. A nurse came in and did normal checking and was shocked to see me the way it was. Appearently I was the most peaceful content child she had ever see before such a major surgery and my face was physically glowing. That's what I've been told by the nurse and my mother.

Your face was glowing. In other words, you were happy. This indicates that other people knew that you spoke with god? That's bullshit. They just saw you happy.

And does anyone the fact that his lines are the same as the ones here a bit suspicious?

I know what this may make you think but I also, at age 7 the night before my second surgery I believe I was visited by an angel. I always thought that it was in my head until my mother told the story about how a nurse walked in and ask my mother what happened. She described me as extremely peaceful and calm compared to what she usually sees in kids before a major procedure and she said that my face was literaly glowing. So I believe that there is something greater then us and there is a reason for us.

[Stark]

Why even bother? The whole episode he describes is a cut n' paste job from some faith-healing thing the board has seen before.

[Superman]

And yet I have talked to God or more accurately Christ. You may dismiss it as a delusion a 7 year old who was frightened at the prospect of haveing heart surgery the next day but how do you explain the effect it had on others around me at the time some of whom were not Christians?

What was this effect, and how the hell do you know it was caused by god? Why did god speaking to you (privately, I assume) affect other people?

I do not "feel positive" that God spoke to me. I know He did.

What were his exact words? What was the pitch of his voice? Did he speak quickly or slowly? Did he sing? Did he whisper? Did he tell you through interpretive dance? Assuming he actually spoke, you should know all these things.

Well in essence He told me not to be afraid that He was there (typical I know) but the voice... From what I remember and this was 28 years ago or so... it was a POWERFUL voice but it spoke gently. I can't explain it better than that. All I remember seeing is that it was a dark room lite by a figure that was a bright yellow. I could get the shape of a person but no features. I still see the image in my mind today.

I reacted and sat up and woke my mother who was in the room with me. A nurse came in and did normal checking and was shocked to see me the way it was. Appearently I was the most peaceful content child she had ever see before such a major surgery and my face was physically glowing. That's what I've been told by the nurse and my mother.

All right, I'm going to try not to be too harsh here. First, let's clear one thing up and go from there. Assuming that you are being truthful (I see no reason to assume you are lying), let's just point out that humans, as a species, hallucinate frequently. They are characterized by voices, images and sensations that don't really exist; although the person who experiences them might believe them so vehemently that they will take that believe to their grave. My point? You're experience PROVES nothing, other than you honestly believe God spoke to you. Now that we've cleared up the fact that your experience purely subjective, we can move on.

Now, let's point out what we do know. You experienced this while lying down? You could have been asleep, or in a near sleep state, and have been totally oblivious to this fact. Sounds to me like you experienced a Hypnagogic State. "Alien abuctees" experience this. This is a well documented phenomenon. Alien abductees are often totally convinced what happened to them was real, due to their inability to distinguish the imagery their brain produces from reality. The same phenomenon has appeared throughout human history, with other examples being incubi and succubae. Experiences with the Divine are fairly common as well. Since it probably feels like I'm attacking your belief, asking you a question might not prove much, but do you have any history of sleep disorders? Let's not forget how real dreams can sometimes seem. I've had dreams in which I could smell things cooking, feel cool wind in my face and see vivid colors. We don't even have to mention the stimulating effects of erotic dreams. The figure you saw was roughly "humanoid" in shape, much like our gray aliens, various cultural deities, etc.

So, we know people don't always perceive what is real. We also know of a well-documented psychological phenomenon that sounds much like what you're describing. What would Occam and his razor have to say about this...?

[Darth RyanKCR]

Again, DarthRyanKCR, what's the difference between knowing you saw God and being positive you saw God?

I was commenting on the fact that Wong indicated that most "feel" they talked to God without any specifics. I know and I gave a few specifics.

And yes that is me on that page from a few years ago. I don't debate well but I tell of my experiences as I see them and as others have relayed them to me.

It was not a happy face I had. My face gave off physical light.

[Superman]

By the way, given our experiences with religious types, we could just safely assume that you're lying. But I think I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you sink yourself.

[Superman]

Again, DarthRyanKCR, what's the difference between knowing you saw God and being positive you saw God?

I was commenting on the fact that Wong indicated that most "feel" they talked to God without any specifics. I know and I gave a few specifics.

And yes that is me on that page from a few years ago. I don't debate well but I tell of my experiences as I see them and as others have relayed them to me.

It was not a happy face I had. My face gave off physical light.

I see I gave you TOO much... You're either dillusional or lying, and I think I know which.

How do you know you gave off light? Did someone come in and measure, in Candela, how much light was being emitted? Did you make heat come out of your eyes and melt things like Superman? Did you at least hang around in case of a power outage?

I don't think your little fantasy/lie is going to fly here, and we don't really like playing the attention game with pathetic morons who need this kind of psycho drama. Grow the fuck up.

[Darth RyanKCR]

What was this effect, and how the hell do you know it was caused by god? Why did god speaking to you (privately, I assume) affect other people?
What were his exact words? What was the pitch of his voice? Did he speak quickly or slowly? Did he sing? Did he whisper? Did he tell you through interpretive dance? Assuming he actually spoke, you should know all these things.

Well in essence He told me not to be afraid that He was there (typical I know) but the voice... From what I remember and this was 28 years ago or so... it was a POWERFUL voice but it spoke gently. I can't explain it better than that. All I remember seeing is that it was a dark room lite by a figure that was a bright yellow. I could get the shape of a person but no features. I still see the image in my mind today.

I reacted and sat up and woke my mother who was in the room with me. A nurse came in and did normal checking and was shocked to see me the way it was. Appearently I was the most peaceful content child she had ever see before such a major surgery and my face was physically glowing. That's what I've been told by the nurse and my mother.

All right, I'm going to try not to be too harsh here. First, let's clear one thing up and go from there. Assuming that you are being truthful (I see no reason to assume you are lying), let's just point out that humans, as a species, hallucinate frequently. They are characterized by voices, images and sensations that don't really exist; although the person who experiences them might believe them so vehemently that they will take that believe to their grave. My point? You're experience PROVES nothing, other than you honestly believe God spoke to you. Now that we've cleared up the fact that your experience purely subjective, we can move on.

Now, let's point out what we do know. You experienced this while lying down? You could have been asleep, or in a near sleep state, and have been totally oblivious to this fact. Sounds to me like you experienced a Hypnagogic State. "Alien abuctees" experience this. This is a well documented phenomenon. Alien abductees are often totally convinced what happened to them was real, due to their inability to distinguish the imagery their brain produces from reality. The same phenomenon has appeared throughout human history, with other examples being incubi and succubae. Experiences with the Divine are fairly common as well. Since it probably feels like I'm attacking your belief, asking you a question might not prove much, but do you have any history of sleep disorders? Let's not forget how real dreams can sometimes seem. I've had dreams in which I could smell things cooking, feel cool wind in my face and see vivid colors. We don't even have to mention the stimulating effects of erotic dreams. The figure you saw was roughly "humanoid" in shape, much like our gray aliens, various cultural deities, etc.

So, we know people don't always perceive what is real. We also know of a well-documented psychological phenomenon that sounds much like what you're describing. What would Occam and his razor have to say about this...?

Could be... and I don't discount it but I think I can tell the difference. Let me give you some examples of what I mean. When I was younger I use to get strep throat a lot and have very high fevers. I used to think that I heard the walls arguing with the doors and people kicking my bed from underneath. In reality when you get such a high fever you brain tends to lose the ability to filter. If you concentrate you can see your nose without a mirror. What was happening was that I was hearing the blood rushing in my ears and the brain tried to put meaning into the sounds. The kicking? Well that was the fact that due to my heart condition when I would get sick my heart would pound so heard it actually shook the bed. it still does that to an extent. Problem is now it may set off the ICD if it starts to race long enough. It's gone off twice now and well...

When I would recover I would realize those were effects of my being sick. I was not sick in the hospital or I would not have had the surgery and there was nothing to indicate I was hallucinating. I've never had an experience like that again.

What would Ockam say about the physical glow that the nurse saw?

To put this back on topic sorta. These and similar experiences have helped shape what I believe. Is it a choice? Maybe. But I believe that these things compel and lead me to believe. I belive that someone indicated a similar thing above and that is right to a great extent.

I love science but I realise that science is not the end all, be all for all the answers. It is a tool to discover the workings of the physical world and I beleive there is more to the physical would and science is unable to address these things and there are many who believe the same.

[DPDarkPrimus]

What would Ockam say about the physical glow that the nurse saw?

That she was exaggerating/is a liar.

[Superman]

Could be... and I don't discount it but I think I can tell the difference.

No, the point is that you cannot. This entire phenomenon is characterized by the fact that people who experience cannot. We cannot "diagnose" ourselves, and we're rarely accurate when it comes to rationalizing our behaviors. Given what you said about it (which is probably a bunch of bs anyway, so I don't know why I am even talking with you), you cannot tell the difference.

What would Ockam say about the physical glow that the nurse saw?

Alright, I'll bite. Give me her name, information, where she works, and when this happened. We can conduct our own little investigation here. I'll split some of the million dollars James Randi is offering for this with you.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Could be... and I don't discount it but I think I can tell the difference. Let me give you some examples of what I mean. When I was younger I use to get strep throat a lot and have very high fevers. I used to think that I heard the walls arguing with the doors and people kicking my bed from underneath. In reality when you get such a high fever you brain tends to lose the ability to filter. If you concentrate you can see your nose without a mirror. What was happening was that I was hearing the blood rushing in my ears and the brain tried to put meaning into the sounds. The kicking? Well that was the fact that due to my heart condition when I would get sick my heart would pound so heard it actually shook the bed. it still does that to an extent. Problem is now it may set off the ICD if it starts to race long enough. It's gone off twice now and well...

Interesting. You admit you've had some hallucinations before, but because you weren't feeling sick means you weren't having one then despite being hours away from a serious medical operation because you had a serious medical illness.

Hallucinations are abnormal sensory perceptions that occur while a person is awake and conscious. Some common hallucinations include:

Hearing voices when no one has spoken
Seeing patterns, lights, beings or objects that aren't there
Feeling a crawling sensation on the skin

Fever, which can occur with almost any infection, frequently produces hallucinations in children and the elderly
Intoxication or withdrawal from such drugs as marijuana, LSD, cocaine or crack, heroin, and alcohol
Delirium or dementia
Sensory deprivation such as blindness or deafness
Severe medical illness including liver failure, kidney failure, and brain cancer
Some psychiatric disorders, particularly schizophrenia, psychotic depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder

When I would recover I would realize those were effects of my being sick. I was not sick in the hospital or I would not have had the surgery and there was nothing to indicate I was hallucinating. I've never had an experience like that again.

Perhaps, because the operation corrected your serious medical illness?

What would Ockam say about the physical glow that the nurse saw?

Irrelevant. She could have been doing many things, including giving you positive reinforcement so you'd keep your positive attitude about your upcoming surgery. What? Did you think the nurse would go? "Kid you're crazy lay down and get some sleep because you'll need it for your heart surgery!"

To put this back on topic sorta. These and similar experiences have helped shape what I believe. Is it a choice? Maybe. But I believe that these things compel and lead me to believe. I belive that someone indicated a similar thing above and that is right to a great extent.

Which would make it a choice in the end. Clearly though you haven't researched your experience. In five minutes of searching I found what causes hallucinations, and some of the common ones are. You fit the bill...

I love science but I realise that science is not the end all, be all for all the answers. It is a tool to discover the workings of the physical world and I beleive there is more to the physical would and science is unable to address these things and there are many who believe the same.

You realize that science is not the end all be all because of your subjective experience? Science can't address what is not real. Sorry, but being slapped with reality can hurt sometimes.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Sorry, here's the source.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003258.htm

[wolveraptor]

I suggest you learn to distinguish between expression and reality. When a nurse says, "Wow, his face was glowing..." she doesn't mean, "He's got supah powahs!! His face gives off light rays!!!!!1111oneoneone". She means you were happy. It's called a turn of phrase.

[Surlethe]

Again, DarthRyanKCR, what's the difference between knowing you saw God and being positive you saw God?

I was commenting on the fact that Wong indicated that most "feel" they talked to God without any specifics. I know and I gave a few specifics.

If you know you talked to God, then you're pretty damned positive you talked to him; thus, you're still in the category he described.

[Darth RyanKCR]

Could be... and I don't discount it but I think I can tell the difference. Let me give you some examples of what I mean. When I was younger I use to get strep throat a lot and have very high fevers. I used to think that I heard the walls arguing with the doors and people kicking my bed from underneath. In reality when you get such a high fever you brain tends to lose the ability to filter. If you concentrate you can see your nose without a mirror. What was happening was that I was hearing the blood rushing in my ears and the brain tried to put meaning into the sounds. The kicking? Well that was the fact that due to my heart condition when I would get sick my heart would pound so heard it actually shook the bed. it still does that to an extent. Problem is now it may set off the ICD if it starts to race long enough. It's gone off twice now and well...

Interesting. You admit you've had some hallucinations before, but because you weren't feeling sick means you weren't having one then despite being hours away from a serious medical operation because you had a serious medical illness.

Hallucinations are abnormal sensory perceptions that occur while a person is awake and conscious. Some common hallucinations include:

Hearing voices when no one has spoken
Seeing patterns, lights, beings or objects that aren't there
Feeling a crawling sensation on the skin

Fever, which can occur with almost any infection, frequently produces hallucinations in children and the elderly
Intoxication or withdrawal from such drugs as marijuana, LSD, cocaine or crack, heroin, and alcohol
Delirium or dementia
Sensory deprivation such as blindness or deafness
Severe medical illness including liver failure, kidney failure, and brain cancer
Some psychiatric disorders, particularly schizophrenia, psychotic depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder

When I would recover I would realize those were effects of my being sick. I was not sick in the hospital or I would not have had the surgery and there was nothing to indicate I was hallucinating. I've never had an experience like that again.

Perhaps, because the operation corrected your serious medical illness?

What would Ockam say about the physical glow that the nurse saw?

Irrelevant. She could have been doing many things, including giving you positive reinforcement so you'd keep your positive attitude about your upcoming surgery. What? Did you think the nurse would go? "Kid you're crazy lay down and get some sleep because you'll need it for your heart surgery!"

To put this back on topic sorta. These and similar experiences have helped shape what I believe. Is it a choice? Maybe. But I believe that these things compel and lead me to believe. I belive that someone indicated a similar thing above and that is right to a great extent.

Which would make it a choice in the end. Clearly though you haven't researched your experience. In five minutes of searching I found what causes hallucinations, and some of the common ones are. You fit the bill...

I love science but I realise that science is not the end all, be all for all the answers. It is a tool to discover the workings of the physical world and I beleive there is more to the physical would and science is unable to address these things and there are many who believe the same.

You realize that science is not the end all be all because of your subjective experience? Science can't address what is not real. Sorry, but being slapped with reality can hurt sometimes.

The surgery did not correct my illness. I have a heart defect not an illness. Being sick with strep throat is very different then having a heart defect.

When I had my classes in sensory and perception for my BA in Psychology (learned later I qualified for a BS because of the experimental courses I took) we talked about how the brain filters out unnecessary info but when is affected by high tempreture (fever for example) or some other condition it loses some of it's filtering ability. It's a possible reason behind some ADD and some Autism. The brain is finding meaning behind all sensory input and not filtering.

The night before surgery I was not sick and I only had the heart defect and the surgery only provided a stop-gap measure until 3 or 4 years later when I had the total correction and even then I was not fully "cured" of the defect. I had 2 surgeries since and may need a transplant in the future.

[Frank Hipper]

What types and what quantities of medication were you on the night before surgery?

[Superman]

The surgery did not correct my illness. I have a heart defect not an illness. Being sick with strep throat is very different then having a heart defect.

When I had my classes in sensory and perception for my BA in Psychology (learned later I qualified for a BS because of the experimental courses I took) we talked about how the brain filters out unnecessary info but when is affected by high tempreture (fever for example) or some other condition it loses some of it's filtering ability. It's a possible reason behind some ADD and some Autism. The brain is finding meaning behind all sensory input and not filtering.

The night before surgery I was not sick and I only had the heart defect and the surgery only provided a stop-gap measure until 3 or 4 years later when I had the total correction and even then I was not fully "cured" of the defect. I had 2 surgeries since and may need a transplant in the future.

Oh look, another fundie that lies about his level of education. That's it, I'm starting a tally of these asshats. This must be the 15th fucking fundie I've spoken with who has some type of advanced degree. You realize that "Thou Shalt Not Lie," means just that, right? You're going to hell.

You can't even fucking spell "temperature" or "Occam," and you expect us to believe you're a college grad? Was this a Bible college? You obviously wouldn't be able to pass Critical Thinking 101, never mind English class. Pathetic. Well, this certainly reinforces my stereotype that fundies are pathetic liars. Congratulations on being so predictable.

[Superman]

What types and what quantities of medication were you on the night before surgery?

Frank, frankly speaking , you're just feeding into his pathetic need for attention. We all know how these children operate.

[Frank Hipper]

What types and what quantities of medication were you on the night before surgery?

Frank, frankly speaking , you're just feeding into his pathetic need for attention. We all know how these children operate.

More than three years it takes for someone to make a "frankly" pun!

[Kamakazie Sith]

The surgery did not correct my illness. I have a heart defect not an illness. Being sick with strep throat is very different then having a heart defect.

A heart defect acts as an illness because your bodies blood flow is impaired. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? Tell me exactly what kind of heart defect you had and then I'll show you how it's an illness.

When I had my classes in sensory and perception for my BA in Psychology (learned later I qualified for a BS because of the experimental courses I took) we talked about how the brain filters out unnecessary info but when is affected by high tempreture (fever for example) or some other condition it loses some of it's filtering ability. It's a possible reason behind some ADD and some Autism. The brain is finding meaning behind all sensory input and not filtering.

It's amazing that you say something like this but are unable to put two and two together.

The night before surgery I was not sick and I only had the heart defect and the surgery only provided a stop-gap measure until 3 or 4 years later when I had the total correction and even then I was not fully "cured" of the defect. I had 2 surgeries since and may need a transplant in the future.

The heart defect is what made you sick, and the stop-gap measure could have corrected it enough to prevent hallucinations.

I want to know the exact medical name of what you have so we can put an end to the games.

[Superman]

I want to know the exact medical name of what you have so we can put an end to the games.

A chronic case of being an immature, lying fundamentalist Christian? I asked him if we could contact the nurst who saw his face glowing, and he has yet to respond.

I have an idea. Let's write up a new mental profile for DSM and psychiatric medical texts, and call it something like FPD, or Fundamentalist Personality Disorder. These dipshits are so predictable, we could easily come up with diagnostic criteria and symptoms.

It could read something like this:

Fundamentalist Personality Disorder

[/i]

[Superman]

Ack, I tried to hit preview... Allow me to continue

Fundamentalist Personality Disorder

FPD is characterized as a personality disorder, not unlike Narcissistic personality disorder, characterized by the incessant need for attention with chronic and pathological lying, and, ironically enough, under the guise of a religious faith.

FPD can be described as a pattern of thinking and behaving in adolescence and adulthood, which involves infatuation and obsession with religious thinking. It manifests in the chronic pursuit of personal gratification and attention, denial of facts, bragging, pathological lying, bigotry, and seeing oneself as above those who are not part of their churches. They will often go to great lengths to convince others of their fantasies. This often includes such Dillusions of Granduer as claiming to possess advanced degrees in subjects like science or chemistry, or having performed research that proves their belief. The bitter irony is that, while claiming to be part of a religion that promotes "Thou Shalt Not Lie," the mental pathology of the FPD has no problem with lying, even habitually.

Not unlike the addict or alcoholic, anger and aggression, or Dysfunctions of Affect Regulation, are common among people with FPD. Clinical research has shown that rates of child abuse, divorce, and general isolation are much higher in FPD family systems.


Hmmm... It's not ready for the DSM yet. Help me out here. Give me more predictors and symptoms of FPD. I'll revise this as I go along.

[wolveraptor]

Man, if you people scared him away already, I'm going to be pissed. You don't go all out on a troll immediately! That's like going into full-strength pelvic thrusts as soon as you start having sex. I was having fun humoring him too.

[Superman]

Man, if you people scared him away already, I'm going to be pissed. You don't go all out on a troll immediately! That's like going into full-strength pelvic thrusts as soon as you start having sex. I was having fun humoring him too.

Oh man, you're right...

I'm sure he'll be back. If there's one thing that can be said about fundies, it's that they're persistent.