Cowboy Bebop vs Firefly

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 11:32pm

--Yep. Vocalized at the beginning. --

Then I'm def

--Then why didn't the companies in 1850 sell to the west? --

They did.

--Well, River, Simon, and Book all speak perfect English, and they're the most educated, so I think it's merely character background. They all speak Mandarin, too. --

i take it china is a very major power rivalling america enough to justify dual language education. well atleast that is true to future events.

--An object in space.--

::licks you::

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 11:37pm

i take it china is a very major power rivalling america enough to justify dual language education. well atleast that is true to future events.

No China or America. It's all 'The Alliance'. Though I suppose China/Asia is a big influence.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-03 11:41pm

I just watched the episode beginning. No voiced anything about such and such.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-03 11:42pm

Perhaps it was cut. There should be either Book or Mal saying 'After the Earth was used up...' with a montage of scenes. Perhaps it's not in the ep you downloaded.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-01-03 11:44pm

Never seen Bebop *ducks*, and I have a Firefly brainbug too

That said, parts of the Western motif bugged me as well. All the "ain'ts" got on my nerves at times, and often the unedumacated speech sounded stilted and unnatural to me.

Regarding the low-tech colonies though, it worked for me. If I was making a supply list for a bare-bones colony, I would opt for more horses than tractors, as they are self-repairing, create usuable byproducts, and can easily 'replicate' themselves. As well, a stranded colony would most likley make use of native resources, being namely wood and stone etc.

Besides, I really liked the common-man theme of Firefly. It was a nice change of pace from all the uber SF that's out there.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-01-03 11:47pm

Too, there's a lot of low-tech in our own world: people that have never made a phone call, annual incomes less than we spend on internet in a few months etc.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-04 02:04am

I'm going to say Bebop solely on the grounds that Spike Spiegel is the greatest bounty hunter ever that doesn't wear Mandalorian Armor

But seriously, between him and Ed I think Bebop gets the Edge. Faye's ship unloading all its ammo into the Firefly's belly couldn't be good for it either.

Shucks Howdy

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-04 02:16am

--Too, there's a lot of low-tech in our own world: people that have never made a phone call, annual incomes less than we spend on internet in a few months etc.--

Mainly because they in backwards countries full of anti-progress religious nuts or have just come out of piss poor governmental systems. To set up a colony you'd have to have alot of funding and plenty of high tech. If its on a normally earthlike world or moon (highly unlikely) then massive numbers of people would be there guaranteed. Refugees from what war there was hoarding on any planet in colonies not little towns.

And terraforming (if those backwater worlds were terraformed) would be a massive endeavor ESPECIALLY for moons of sufficient size, which are almost always found around larger planets (earth is a rare case and has no atmosphere). Titan, for instance, is large enough to hold an atmosphere but orbits Saturn. If most large moons with atmospheres are similarly located around large planets, then they are often rather far from their sun. NASA's search sint working properly so i cant give exact figures for extra solar planets of jupiters mass. But getting enough sunlight to heat the planet might be an issue.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-01-04 02:25am

kojikun wrote:["Drewcifer"]-Too, there's a lot of low-tech in our own world: people that have never made a phone call, annual incomes less than we spend on internet in a few months etc.

Mainly because they in backwards countries full of anti-progress religious nuts or have just come out of piss poor governmental systems. To set up a colony you'd have to have alot of funding and plenty of high tech. If its on a normally earthlike world or moon (highly unlikely) then massive numbers of people would be there guaranteed. Refugees from what war there was hoarding on any planet in colonies not little towns.[/quote]

Good points. I would only add that populations might be relatively low per planet if colonization had taken place on 100's or 1000's of worlds. As well, Serenity, being a smuggling ship, would primarily land in the less populated areas of a planet to avoid as many local authorities as possible.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-04 02:39am

Given that the local authorities on refugee worlds would not be Alliance, I see no reason to land in the less populated places. And its likely that the only populated places on such planets are those with well established populations. Going out into the wilderness where theres no infrastructure whatsoever is a very bad idea. I dont care how smart it might be to have horses over tractors, you loose a horse and youre dead. Youd need large numbers of people (more then seen) to support proper growth in an isolated place like that and large numbers of people mean large numbers of demands which would require quick solutions that technology alone can provide. You aint just up and moving to Titan and planting crops, you need habitat, food, water atleast. And backup transportation off that rock is necessity and the ability to refuel and keep the vessel entact requires technology. No, colony towns like that wont happen without large numbers of people. A few dozen wont last, not without other colonies with sufficient supplies and technology (which we havent seen but that doesnt negate their existance).

My point is, in order to found a colony, you need more then a few people and a house, even if you do go Amish style. Just getting their requires technology which would be left over (if it remained on planet) and no sane group of people would strand themselves on a world with no technology.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-01-04 02:59am

Shinova wrote:I must be the only one on this board who has never watched a single smidgen of either Cowboy Bebop or Firefly.

[/off-topic]

Another one here who has no goddamn idea WTF these shows are about. All Ihave ot go on is that fact that the name "Cowboy Bebop" sounds kinds dumb, and "Firefly" doesn't make any real impact or impression.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-01-04 03:10am

I also haven't seen either show, so I have no idea wha tthey are about.

Could ya'll fill me in?

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-01-04 03:34am

kojikun wrote:Given that the local authorities on refugee worlds would not be Alliance, I see no reason to land in the less populated places.

True, but IIRC they sometimes dealt in things that weren't legal locally either. As well, an opportunistic 'sheriff' might turn in Serenity to the Alliance, as they have a price on their heads; staying away from any authorities is a good idea when you're a smuggler.

kojikun wrote:{....} My point is, in order to found a colony, you need more then a few people and a house, even if you do go Amish style. Just getting their requires technology which would be left over (if it remained on planet) and no sane group of people would strand themselves on a world with no technology.

Agreed. Insanely low population densities of colonies is a common SF brain bug.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-01-04 03:42am

FaxModem1 wrote:I also haven't seen either show, so I have no idea wha tthey are about.

Could ya'll fill me in?

Start here for Bebop, and here for Firefly.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-01-04 04:20am

My big bias comes in when it is time to deal with Anime. I have nothing against Anime per se and even like a lot of Anime stuff, but I justget fed up with the whole "Anme Uber Alles" attitude that anything from Japan is automatically the Supreme King High Overloard of All Coolness just because it's from Japan.

I mean, come on.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-01-04 05:05am

Why would we consider it superior because it's from Japan? We consider it superior because the shows that it is compared to is typical Amercan television, that is to say, complete and utter piles of shit that should never have aired.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-04 07:08am

I haven't seen either of them. Although whenever I see a japanese cartoon I wonder if they could stab someone to death with their noses.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-04 07:10am

HemlockGrey wrote:Speaking of which, download 'Objects in Space', watch it, full screen, high quality, with the lights turned off, and honestly tell me it is not one of the most dramatic pieces of work you have ever seen.

Where?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-04 11:17am

I don't subscribe to the "Japan uber alles" notion, there is a lot of crap animé too just as there are a lot of shit American and British programmes or films.

Bebop is the exception in this case, it is a modern classic almost like a futuristic Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (my fave western).

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-04 01:52pm

Coyote, I hate most anime, if thats worth anything. Most of it is crap with poor writing and carbon copy drawing style and looks which wouldnt bee so bad if they had better writing.

Drew, small colonies arent really a problem as long as theyre a colony thats being actively populated from outside and they have constant supply and maintenance coming from offworld. Firefly only makes things worse because this is an earthlike world not a mars like world which will have populations growing larger then seen in Firefly in half the time with none of the technology. Any earthlike world out there will be explored and colonized enmasse. Think about it: If there was suitable atmosphere and temperature on mars for humans to live, as well as native plant life, do you think we'd have gone to the moon or to Mars in 1969? I say Mars. The chance to go to another planet suited for humans would have given the space race a serious boost and we'd be colonising mars right this very moment. Even if Venus, Mars, and Titan were all earthlike, each would have a substantially large population simply because the drive to populate those planets would push technology to the point where space travel becomes considerably cheaper

Consider this, btw: the required electricity to put a person into Geosynchrous Orbit is valued between as high as USD$750.00 and USD$7.50. Orbital elevators and electromagnetic launch systems would make this a realworld cost, and in the case of orbital elevators, they could be powered by large solar panel arrays in space reducing the cost of electricity to ZERO.

Given that, colonizing other worlds would be a quick and easy task. I see absolutely no reason for completely human-capable worlds to have a population of between 5 and 50.