New SDN SEIV game

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Nephtys
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Post by Nephtys »

Nova Andromeda wrote:
Nephtys wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote:-My copy of Neph's mod seems to be missing component images. Specifically in the range of ~300-1900.
-I managed to put together an empire that doesn't need modification.
-Using Neph's senario I wouldn't sit by and let B and C fight A alone because there is a huge chance that whoever wins that fight will gain a massive additional advantage. Instead I'd pick the side that gave me the best chance to come out ahead. This probably means siding w/ A while agreeing to divide up B & C evenly or siding w/ B & C if there is reason to believe their alliance can be split later on.
300-1900 requires the Imagemod. You gotta install that first.

Oh, I found a bug in the mod. Some of the min - range seekers didn't work, and I needed to add troop weapon mount. Those'll be fixed momentarilly.
-Okay, where will your new mod be located?
I'll link this.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/138 ... -11-06.zip

That's the patch. Install it today!
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brianeyci
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Post by brianeyci »

Hold your starships peeps, there are problems. I spent part of the afternoon testing.
  • Fighters have no engines. Therefore they have 1 move point and no supply to shoot.
  • It's a good thing too because fighters are broken. Using the Cobalt Torpedo with 120 damage at 20 range and the Captain that has +100% chance to hit, they're invincible. Fighters themselves have +80% to defense. Add up the +35% racial with a max/minned empire and fighters are unhittable.
  • An unstoppable combo is the Captain with +100% to hit and Cobalt Torpedoes. You may want to consider nerfing that Captain. Religious Talisman in Stock makes or breaks games and it takes forever to research. At its current cost you can get a Talisman on turn one.
  • Drones have no computer cores.
  • Troops have no weapons
  • The following technologies are broken. That is, they do not show up in ruins, and the technology is unresearchable (when you research the technology area, you get nothing). Neutron bomb, planetary napalm, hyper-ebola virus, bio-engineered frogs, xeno conscription, auto-defender, chromium gong, tactical nova bomb, particle vortex cannon, lava flash crater, lava burst cone, micrometeroite gun and stellar nova bomb. There may be more. Start a game and right click on a tech area for let's say planetary napalm, and you see you get nothing from researching it. In addition, I ran a game and set the AI to go colonizing mad and they got techs like stellar nova bomb, greyed out, but ended up getting no component. I do not know what's wrong--I tried changing the "weapon family" but that didn't work.
  • The Merchant Captain's resource generation ability does not appear to work. That is, the ship does not appear to generate resources. Also the Merchant Captain cannot convert resources. My guess is some abilities are hard-coded for facilities only. Other Captains may or may not have broken abilities. I didn't test them all.
  • With my max-minned Empire, I can put out colonizers in one turn, without emergency build. You may want to make colonizers so expensive that no matter if you pick hardy industrialists and have 150% build rate, they still take 2 turns to make or three turns if you don't max/min. One colonizer a turn is pretty fast and with ten homeworlds I had 50 colonizers by turn five. Maintainence was not a problem, because I have 120% maintainence and therefore only pay 5% maintainence because the hulls are not Adamant style maintainence fixed.
  • Certain crucial technologies like fighters, troops and mines, are unique technology area 0. They can't be discovered in ruins since you've got no technology area zero in the ruin types and have to be researched. Since there's no research except in the beginning... you know.
  • In the ruin types you've got technology area 1 2 and 3 duplicated. The chances also don't seem to add up to 100%.
I suggest the following fixes. Get rid of gas, rock and ice colony modules. Either make point-defense weapons common or get rid of fighters all together. Get rid of drones. Also, make all research cost more than 100k points. That way even with a high resource start you can research nothing and it all depends on colonization. Either that or balance out the research costs more, because cobalt torpedo at 10k is a must get and it's stupid to research a weaker weapon on turn one. But balancing out research costs is probably tricky, number one since you don't know if a person will start with 5k, 20k or 100k research points. Make everything 100k+ is an easy solution. Also either get rid of troops, or make troop mounts for weapons. Test every component to make sure it works. To do this select "high technology game" and "see entire tech tree when the game starts" and your empire starts with every single researchable technology in the game.

To make the game longer, give planets 500000 phased shields, because it seems like right now the game is over on turn 20 (fifty colonies on turn five!). Then make a 1% chance of discovering a weapon that can shoot through that. Also since 1% may be never, there should be a way of shooting through it, but a very expensive way. I do not know how to implement this, but the ideal would be a facility to generate research points for researching in 50 turns the planet-killa. Maybe the planetary shipyard or supply depot, or a homeworld hub like in Babylon Five. But planet-killa would be the only feasible technology to research, since it'd take eons for the others (make all other technologies 999999999 research or something). Ideally all other technologies should have a disclaimer "don't waste your research on this, research planet-killa instead." Then Nephtys Mod would have a guaranteed shelf life of fifty turns at most. The planet-killa technology should ideally cost in increments of hundreds of thousands of points... say for 50 turns you want 5000000 for the planet-killa. Then, other technology would cost 5 billion points instead (all five billion). And your homeworld hub would generate 100k research points. That way, no matter if you start with 5k, 20k or 100k research points it takes either 50 or 51 turns to get planet-killa.

Either that or forget planetary shielding, keep homeworlds weak, and make everything cost 5 million research so no matter if you start with 5k, 20k or 100k it doesn't matter and you don't have any balancing to do with research. Probably the easiest fix.

Brian
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Post by brianeyci »

"Entaro Adun, Executor," Aldaris said. The Judicator's orbs leered at Xeneon with a menace he'd forever learned to loathe. The Judicators, in control of the Templar, and the Templar their servants. Things would change, today.

Aldaris was the son of the late Aldaris of Tassadar infamy. The late Aldaris had ordered the so-called hero Tassadar to burn infested Terran worlds. Instead Tassadar defied the conclave and the result was the subsequent invasion of Aiur.

And the death of Xeneon's entire family to the swarm.

After the war the Judicators, now following the teachings of Tassadar, had reformed. They would not be like the old Judicators. They would listen to the warriors and scientists and never marginalize them. Slowly though the Judicators became more like their predessors until now, ten years later, nearly all the old habits had reasserted themselves. The arrogance, the elitism, the privileges afforded those of Judicator rank all returned.

"...so young one you are tasked with making contact with the denizens of this new galaxy and to warn them of the Zerg," said Aldaris.

"What if they are infested?" Xeneon said softly.

"Then render whatever aid you are able."

Render aid. Like Tassadar had tried to do, and failed, luring the swarm to Aiur's magnificent temples and cities. That would not happen again. They would never be victims of the swarm. Xeneon had cultivated his Dark Templar powers over the past decade, unknowningly to these fools, and had pretended to be their puppet. Xeneon turned his head, letting Aldaris see the back of his neck and the freshly severed nerve endings freeing him from the telepathic intrusion of the Judicators.

"Young one, what is wrong with your neck." Aldaris leaned forward. "You have... you have cut them. What have you done?" Aldaris took a step back.

"I have disabled the security system in this room. Submit and it will be painless."

Aldaris raised his hand and formed a psionic ball of energy. Xeneon was ready. With one swipe of his psi-blades he cut off the Judicator's hand. The uncontrolled psionic energy shot across the room and shattered an unshielded Khadarin crystal. The crystal exploded, sending daggers and shrapnel flying through the room. The daggers pierced Aldaris' exposed flesh in a dozen ways. Xeneon's shields shimmered, deflecting the shards.

"I told you I disabled the security system," Xeneon said. Xeneon aimed his wrist disruptor at Aldaris and emptied an entire energy clip into the Judicator. Then he reloaded, and fired another thirty shots on full automatic until there was no possible way for even Protoss biotechnology to salvage the smear on the ground.

"If only you were more like your father," Xeneon said stepping on the Judicator's remains. He walked over to the Judicator's desk and tapped a communications panel.

"Command," the voice of a carrier captain said.

"The Judicator is dead. Alter course for the nearest inhabited world," Xeneon said.

A pause.

"At once," the captain said.

"Now, I come for you Zerg," Xeneon said. He was now in command of the Protoss Expeditionary Force, and all infested would be cleansed by holy fire.

[Download my new Protoss shipset here. It took me a little more than an hour to make it, and it's basically a cut and paste job from Blizzard's website, so it's kind of bland.]

Brian
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Post by Nephtys »

Hrm. I'm fairly sure a lot of those weapons and items can be randomly discovered. I'm playtesting more now... Drones were never a part of the thing, and I did add a troop blaster weapon since there's just 1 size of troop.

Thanks for the notices then, and well. Hrm. Most weapons cannot even target planets, so a planetary assault needs a large number of bombardment ships. I'll provide a basic planet-shield.

I'll work on this modding work to fix that stuff. Forgot all about fighters.

Some of the items like captains are hard to test. The one I'm thinking of is the Urluqon hunter, a guy who cloaks AND reduces the shields of all ships in his sector. Not sure if that properly works.

The captain with +100 to-hit also costs like, 20k/20k/20k to get, and has a hefty maintenance penalty. Always hitting is useless if the enemy outnumbers you six to one.

I'll adjust fighter defense to zero. Let all the multiple-targetting guns slaughter em.
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Post by brianeyci »

Good point about the planets, was going to mention that. Apparently no weapons can target planets and the ones that can are broken. I can't seem to get them from random planets... when I land on some planets, I get no tech area, the tech area gets greyed out, and I get no component. Wierd.

The 20k/20k/20k sounds formidable until you realize that it's only 5% maintainence and you'll pay an extra 1k/1k/1k on each ship in the long run to always hit, a bargain.

The maintainence is really wierd. It only cost me 300/300/300 roughly to maintain a colony ship. We'll be looking at 100's of ships with 5% maintainence assuming everybody max/mins (and who wouldn't). Maybe you could hard code maintainence to 100 percent. Definitely colony ships might need to be more expensive I think, to deter max/minners so they take 2 turns to build even if you have 175% build rate on a good starting planet unless you go emergency build. Two times the colony ships in this mod means two times the "research points" and it should be possible to get two turn colony ships if you sacrifice every measly point, and three turns if you're more reasonable, instead of 1 turn non-emergency built 50 colony ships on turn five craziness.

I am looking at this code,

Code: Select all

Name                      := Normal Planet
Number of Poss Abilities  := 8
Ability 1 Chance          := 600
Ability 1 Type            := Ancient Ruins
Ability 1 Descr           := There appears to be traces of an alien technology on this planet.
Ability 1 Val 1           := 1
Ability 1 Val 2           := 0
Ability 2 Chance          := 150
Ability 2 Type            := Ancient Ruins
Ability 2 Descr           := There are buried alien cities on this planet that have long been deserted.
Ability 2 Val 1           := 2
Ability 2 Val 2           := 0
Ability 3 Chance          := 50
Ability 3 Type            := Ancient Ruins
Ability 3 Descr           := Sensors indicate high energy signatures of multiple advanced technological devices left on this planet.
Ability 3 Val 1           := 3
Ability 3 Val 2           := 0
Ability 4 Chance          := 100
Ability 4 Type            := Ancient Ruins Unique
Ability 4 Descr           := We have detected a large alien spacecraft crashed on this planet
Ability 4 Val 1           := 1
Ability 4 Val 2           := 0
Ability 5 Chance          := 50
Ability 5 Type            := Ancient Ruins Unique
Ability 5 Descr           := We have detected advanced thruster technology on this planet
Ability 5 Val 1           := 2
Ability 5 Val 2           := 0
Ability 6 Chance          := 75
Ability 6 Type            := Ancient Ruins Unique
Ability 6 Descr           := We have detected interstellar drive energy signatures on this planet
Ability 6 Val 1           := 3
Ability 6 Val 2           := 0
Ability 7 Chance          := 60
Ability 7 Type            := Ancient Ruins Unique
Ability 7 Descr           := We have detected advanced energy emissions on this planet
Ability 7 Val 1           := 4
Ability 7 Val 2           := 0
Ability 8 Chance          := 50
Ability 8 Type            := Ancient Ruins Unique
Ability 8 Descr           := We have detected advanced nebular drive emissions on this planet
Ability 8 Val 1           := 5
Ability 8 Val 2           := 0
And technology areas like this,

Code: Select all

Name                  := Fighters
Group                 := Applied Science
Description           := The construction of fighter vehicles and their support components.
Maximum Level         := 1
Level Cost            := 50000
Start Level           := 0
Raise Level           := 0
Racial Area           := 0
Unique Area           := 0
Can Be Removed        := True
Number of Tech Req    := 1
Tech Area Req 1       := Construction
Tech Level Req 1      := 1
The unique area for fighters is zero, like gas rock and ice colonies. So I think that means you can't find fighter technology on ruin planets. I'm not sure whether that's what you want, but you can't find troop or fighter or mine technology on ruin planets, and mine warheads you can't find either so mines, troops and fighters are useless right now.

Brian
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Nova Andromeda
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Post by Nova Andromeda »

-My suggested settings are:
Low Technology (there aren't that many anyhow)
Galaxy size (adjust to total tech. available by counting planets/player)
Technology Cost (who cares?)
5000 Racial Points

-My suggested rules are (NO to those listed and YES to those not listed):
  Trading with AI Empires or Human Empires you know are under AI control.
  Surrendering when you want to leave.
  Declaring war or breaking the treaty with an ally you've made a subjugation treaty with (if you are the stronger empire)
  Declaring war or breaking the treaty with an ally you've made a subjugationwith (if you are the weaker empire)
  E-mail/PM/Real Life/Any other kind of agreements out of the game or diplomacy between players who have not met yet in the game
  Using annoying/deceptive shipsets
  Allow gang bangs? A gang bang is when a number of players (allied or not) are attacking a smaller (.74x or smaller) number of allied players at the same time. Players w/ military(?) or partnership treaties are considered allied.

-Don't know what these rules mean:
  Retroseries building.
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Post by brianeyci »

Nova Andromeda wrote:  Allow gang bangs? A gang bang is when a number of players (allied or not) are attacking a smaller (.74x or smaller) number of allied players at the same time. Players w/ military(?) or partnership treaties are considered allied.
What happens if two players just happen to attack another player and they're not allied and it was a coincidence? Who is going to be calculating the .74 score every single turn and posting who can attack who and what stops a player from building empty ship hulls to raise to score to obscene levels to be invulnerable to combined attacks (SE:IV places a disproportionate amount of score weighted on ship count). And if you don't mean score by .74 smaller, what do you mean?

Let me understand if I understand this.

If A + B <= 0.74 C, it is okay for A + B to attack C.

I am really not looking forward to posting who can attack who each turn and banging the gravel to stop an attack in progress to the cry of "well, it just happened to be the same time" and it could be. Nor am I looking forward to restricting how people play based on some arbitrary mathematical formula. Word it a different way.

I suggest the wording to be "Military alliances and partnerships are not allowed" since that seems to be what you want. It doesn't stop two people from attacking at the same time but it would make it more difficult. Unfortunately I do not think you will find much support for your idea, since I haven't heard a single person agreeing with your point against team attacks. You must be either very very good at strategy games so everybody always teams up, or had some very bad experiences.
-Don't know what these rules mean:
  Retroseries building.
It means building a ship with partial components and retrofitting in more components and repairing the next turn to accelerate build rate. This is how you get warp point openers out very quickly and build very expensive ships quickly. It costs a lot to retrofit though.

Brian
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Post by Nephtys »

Good point. Hrm. I think I'll increase ship maint costs to 40 percent. Increase some 'super' unit costs, like system wide modifiers. I'm right now fixing fighters. Fighters by the way, can only mount smaller weapons anyway, and their mounts shrink the weapons to 20 percent size, but they keep 60 percent of the cost. Fighters are going to cost a LOT more than they're worth I think, since they can't be shielded or armored. As long as you have a weapon capable of hitting them like Neptunium Railgun or Molybenium Cone Cannon, you'll be ok against most assaults.

Fixed fighter engines. Working to tweak costs slightly.

No idea why some of the weapons don't show up though.

Edit: Fixed. Those weapons appeared in prior versions, because I made a typo after cobalt torpedo. I put two returns, which told the game to stop looking for components. :P

That's why bombs and mines and such didn't get items. It works now.

EDIT2!

This patch fixes units of all kinds and rebalances some costs. It doesn't address maint cost yet. How's it look, Brian? Let's get some playtesting done, since I need some debugging time anyway.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/139 ... +Patch.zip
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Post by Nova Andromeda »

brianeyci wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote:  Allow gang bangs? A gang bang is when a number of players (allied or not) are attacking a smaller (.74x or smaller) number of allied players at the same time. Players w/ military(?) or partnership treaties are considered allied.
What happens if two players just happen to attack another player and they're not allied and it was a coincidence? Who is going to be calculating the .74 score every single turn and posting who can attack who and what stops a player from building empty ship hulls to raise to score to obscene levels to be invulnerable to combined attacks (SE:IV places a disproportionate amount of score weighted on ship count). And if you don't mean score by .74 smaller, what do you mean?
-I figure you can post in this thread if you are going to attack someone and are afraid another player has the same idea (frankly this is a very rare occurance). The first to post wins. If noone posts, but an excess # of players attack someone then the first player to post here that they wish to continue wins. The other guys must refrain from attacking further. This is a relatively friendly game so I'm assuming people are going to require that I write out a ton of legalize.
-We aren't calculating score. We are caculating # of players. 2:1 is not okay, but 4:3 is.
-I don't have any better ideas on wording yet.
-We can transition to an alliance vs. alliance game once someone gets to strong to take down. I'd rather have a smooth transition like this to avoid a mismatch.
brianeyci wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote:-Don't know what these rules mean:
  Retroseries building.
It means building a ship with partial components and retrofitting in more components and repairing the next turn to accelerate build rate. This is how you get warp point openers out very quickly and build very expensive ships quickly. It costs a lot to retrofit though.
-Ah, that is one of my favorite strategies. I think it's fine since it cost so much in resources. We would never be able to build the costlier ships/bases in a reasonable time period without it. However, I don't understand the damage stat. for the repair component (it says that it can repair X components and Y damage). The components part makes sense, but the damage part doesn't.
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Post by brianeyci »

Can I pick up fighter, mine and troop hulls from ruins? When I research fighters or mines or troops in the beginning they should come with at least one weapon or warhead.

As for playtesting... I'll try a solitaire but alas, evil work prohibits a three hour gaming session tonight. Ah well.

For maintainence a simple fix would be restricting the racial maintainence modifier to 100 percent so it's unchangeable. That way the only way to change maintainence is getting the merchants culture. Then you don't need maintainence at 45, but keep it at 25. Adamant fixed it by putting maintainence at 100, and having ship hulls reduce it by -75, and so on, so if you got 20% maintainence it actually reduced your maintainence by 20% and not 20 points out of twenty five or 80% like it does now. But that's a lot more work than just forcing players not to tinker with maintainence. Covenant figured it out earlier, he knows exactly how to do it.

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Post by Nephtys »

Nova, the multibot damage repairer module in the game fixes 2 Components each turn, and 10 damage every combat turn, I think. So after 5 combat turns, one 50Kt module is restored.
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Post by brianeyci »

Nephtys wrote:Nova, the multibot damage repairer module in the game fixes 2 Components each turn, and 10 damage every combat turn, I think. So after 5 combat turns, one 50Kt module is restored.
Does it work? For damage to shield generators or engines it's all or nothing... if you try and burn out a shield generator that's 40kT, and your shield burning weapon does 50kT of damage, it doesn't carry over to the next shield generator (it's why there's a special mount to do a little more that the damage needed in ST because I think exactly 40 on a 40 damage resistance shield generator may not work either). It makes me think that damage doesn't get recorded except on the number of damaged components.

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Post by brianeyci »

I was wondering how much interest people would have on a pickup game. It'd take place the 3rd of September sometime and we'd coordinate with MSN and use the real-time client. We'd book a nice chunk of time, maybe four hours, and see how many turns we could play then. We'd each have 3 minutes to do our turns and aim for an average of two minutes per turn, so after four hours we'd finish 120 turns.

Four players or so would be perfect. It'd probably be the Adamant Mod on medium technology start with 1 homeworld in a small galaxy. I'll save all the turns on e-mail and upload them along with game passwords and logins so everybody can take a look at it later, and as a bonus I will also craft a short story based on the game. You will be immortalized :).

Meanwhile, as you know if you got the PBW News e-mail, Nephtys is looking for bug testing. A couple days after she comes back they'll be one more patch and the main SDN game goes ahead.

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Post by Trogdor »

Having the special tech trees not work kind of kills my two previous ideas for empires. I've come up with a new one but it's a little...tongue-in-cheek, shall we say. I hope no one minds. Neph's mod seemed to call for something a little more comical than I usually bring to the table.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
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Post by brianeyci »

Damn that's a really good point. No point playing grumpy Protoss with this mod... or is there.

Good. Hm. If there is an RP, it should be... funny. Writing humor's a little stranger, but after B5, ST, ST Mk. II and Adamant taking themselves a little too seriously, funny's good.

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Post by Spyder »

I'm in if there's room.
:D
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Post by brianeyci »

Art thou prepared for the ramming of psi blade up thy ass?

Then there is room :).

It's called SDN Mk. II. Sign up, install Nephtys' mod, and game away. Nephtys still wants people to test all her components to make sure there aren't any buggy ones, especially the ship captains. The latest version is a few posts up.

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Post by Spyder »

Attempting to register...
PBW seems kind of buggy.
:D
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Post by brianeyci »

Spyder wrote:Attempting to register...
PBW seems kind of buggy.
It works best in IE.

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Post by Spyder »

Is the registration process automatic or do they email the passwords out manually?
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Post by brianeyci »

Spyder wrote:Is the registration process automatic or do they email the passwords out manually?
I have no idea. I think it's automatic, since everything else about PBW's automatic, from the turn notifications to the news e-mails. But word of warning, don't rely on the turn notifications through e-mail, since PBW's down a lot and the notifications don't come all the time.

Anyway, it's not starting for another week at least, more like week and a half, until Nephtys gets back and a final patch's made. So you've got tons of time :P.

PBW's a lot different than playing the AI. I suggest you read the min/max guide at least. There's way too much to talk about that usually comes through experience, but as long as you have fast, quickly built colonizers you should be okay in Nephtys's mod since research depends on how quickly you colonize. I'll make a max/minned empire for Nephtys's new mod later (Intel and Research are useless, among other things).

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Post by Spyder »

Sorted, I'll join once I've got an empire and shipset sorted.
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Post by brianeyci »

Sorted?

Oh and for those who haven't, my Protoss Shipset (it sucks I know, all cut and paste shit but so is Protoss in the first place) and here is my sample max/minned empire (just my Protoss empire without a password) for Neph's mod. I took ancient since you get to see all the good technology planets (ones with hulls), propulsion experts, hardy industrialists and advanced storage techniques, all must haves. All the other traits are shit.

You can join right away so you can get game news. Just because you join doesn't mean there's a commitment... beauty with PBW is you can quit any time and it doesn't inconvenience anybody.

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Post by Spyder »

Can you change your empire name after you join? It wanted me to specify one when I went to join the game.
:D
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Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Post by GuppyShark »

Yes. That is just what the website calls it. The actual game name is in the Empire file you upload.
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