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RTR has its definite strengths, but you still have to mod the game to make it playable. The time it takes to get a newly captured city to the point where you can train troops is a huge pain in the ass. And the huge number of cities may please the people who want to spend months playing one campaign game, but not me. I want to be able to capture large parts of the map without dedicating my life to this game for weeks at a time.

And what's the problem with the "three families" system? I know it's not historically accurate and they can guard your flanks while you expand, but that only means you have two very powerful enemies to defeat right on your doorstep when you finally march on Rome.

Darth Wong wrote:RTR has its definite strengths, but you still have to mod the game to make it playable. The time it takes to get a newly captured city to the point where you can train troops is a huge pain in the ass.

I've just started a R:TR 6.2 game (Rome stopped accepting patches for a while, so I couldn't play anything other than vanilla 1.1) and this is just crazy. It's almost 20 turns to get decent units coming out of a city, and they reduced the strategic move as well.

Darth Wong wrote:And what's the problem with the "three families" system? I know it's not historically accurate and they can guard your flanks while you expand, but that only means you have two very powerful enemies to defeat right on your doorstep when you finally march on Rome.

I like sandbox games: playing vanilla as a Roman family means you're stuck with the silly mission-based Senate and the eventual 'fight the other Romans who are hopeless' part. And the Brutii have it really, really easy.

I found that making the Gauls a protectorate in R:TR really worked to my advantage. Focus on wealthy greece, and the wonders in and around asia minor and Egypt.

I rather like the time it takes to 'convert' a city. Aside from the wonderful plunder acquired by burning down the other guy's upgrades and temples it makes your home cities far more important. Every turn troops from mainland italy would would ferried over into Greece. At the end of my conquests in greece I had some well developed cities capable of building cheap garrison units, and one or two cities which could retrain parts of my armies.
Of course every couple cities I took I'd have to send an entire army's worth of troops back to italy to be fully retrained. Though, it would have been nice if there was a way to automate the operations needed to retrain.

It was interesting to play. I would not say that its a replacement for vanilla. It is, however, nice to play when you're tired of vanilla.

Gandalf wrote:You lucky bastard.

I bought the "Gold Edition" of RTW, out of the box it is v1.6. No mods for me.

Rogue: http://www.rometotalrealism.com/

Look up SPQR, dude. It's updated to work with 1.5/1.6 Rome, one of the major reasons RTR turned me off.

And that said, I'll second the recommendation for SPQR. It takes some getting used to, and playing as the Romans can be a real bitch for the first 10 turns or so with hordes of Gauls raping you and nothing but Hastati to fend them off.

Though the gimped Greeks annoy me. While the unbreakable Spartans are amusing, I want my phalanxes, damnit.

You can fight the guals if you take it slow, take Segesta(I think thats it) early on, buld up 2-3 columns of Hastati + Cavalary(if you can), march on all the cities at once, then disband to save your tumbling economy.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:

Gandalf wrote:You lucky bastard.

I bought the "Gold Edition" of RTW, out of the box it is v1.6. No mods for me.

Rogue: http://www.rometotalrealism.com/

Look up SPQR, dude. It's updated to work with 1.5/1.6 Rome, one of the major reasons RTR turned me off.

And that said, I'll second the recommendation for SPQR. It takes some getting used to, and playing as the Romans can be a real bitch for the first 10 turns or so with hordes of Gauls raping you and nothing but Hastati to fend them off.

Though the gimped Greeks annoy me. While the unbreakable Spartans are amusing, I want my phalanxes, damnit.

SPQR got a bit repetitive for me, there was never a real sense of victory because 3 more identical full-stack armies would appear next turn. I'm trying the Extended Greek Mod right now, which seems interesting.

I've found a guide to getting EB to work with RTW Gold, and they're working on RTR Platinum, which should work with RTW Gold. I'll give both a go soon. In fact, they seem to have a working version of RTRPE out: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58290. Sweet. Still no release date for EB0.8 though.

I use Terra Expugnandae, and I love the Epirotes the most. Greeks in Italy with Elephant units! Glee!

Ace Pace wrote:SPQR is simplistic perfection. No more dealing with ordering up large armies, no more small battles that just waste time.

Being attacked by multiple full-stack armies every single turn is hardly my idea of "perfection". It's ridiculous.

I like the Byzantines in MTW.

I stopped playing RTW: BI after this one game as the Eastern Empire, where the Barbarians kept sending all these multi-stack armies at the bridge north of Constantinople. Everything North of the ERE was empty, rebel held villages, but they still gang up on me? "Hey, everyone, let's get our Gothic tribe exterminated so the Sarmatians can plunder a weakened Constantinople!" Yeah fucking right.

My favorite in M:TW were the Italians. The Mediterranean was my personal swimming pool after I got my massive fleet of fire galleys and war galleys going and raked in huge amounts of cash with trade. And if anyone tried anything funny they'd get a nice little "Marine Expeditionary Force" of Italian Infantry and Genoese Sailors.

Also enjoyed playing the Danes, getting control of the North Sea was easy and then usually I'd take England. Plus it was pure fun putting down a 3,000 strong revolt of Peasants with just your king, his two sons and 240 Vikings

Setzer wrote:I like the Byzantines in MTW.

I stopped playing RTW: BI after this one game as the Eastern Empire, where the Barbarians kept sending all these multi-stack armies at the bridge north of Constantinople. Everything North of the ERE was empty, rebel held villages, but they still gang up on me? "Hey, everyone, let's get our Gothic tribe exterminated so the Sarmatians can plunder a weakened Constantinople!" Yeah fucking right.

Really? In my experience, it was almost comically easy to hold a bridge as either Roman faction, because the plumbatarii can create a brutal killing zone at the end of the bridge with their iron darts, you can pour in artillery fire onto the bridge while they're trying to cross, and your archers can pepper any men or horses trying to cross the water. I found that I could wipe out mammoth armies quite easily in those bridge-crossing battles.

Darth Wong wrote:

Setzer wrote:I like the Byzantines in MTW.

I stopped playing RTW: BI after this one game as the Eastern Empire, where the Barbarians kept sending all these multi-stack armies at the bridge north of Constantinople. Everything North of the ERE was empty, rebel held villages, but they still gang up on me? "Hey, everyone, let's get our Gothic tribe exterminated so the Sarmatians can plunder a weakened Constantinople!" Yeah fucking right.

Really? In my experience, it was almost comically easy to hold a bridge as either Roman faction, because the plumbatarii can create a brutal killing zone at the end of the bridge with their iron darts, you can pour in artillery fire onto the bridge while they're trying to cross, and your archers can pepper any men or horses trying to cross the water. I found that I could wipe out mammoth armies quite easily in those bridge-crossing battles.

Indeed, bridge battles can be one of the most fun battles to fight (long as you're defending of course ) . Having a border territory that includes a river crossing is pure heaven when someone like the Golden Horde comes rampaging through.

The coolest part about bridge battles in RTW: BI was the bodies that would float down river when your carriage ballistae sent them flying off the bridge at an angle. I enjoyed that immensely.

Of course, there are no mobile ballista in M2TW- but there are eventually cannons. Imagine the possibilities!

It shits me how the Greeks don't appear to get the full range of cannons in M2TW- only Bombards. Sucks.

How easily hackable is the M2TW? I read from a PCGames review of the game that Byzantines aren't initially playable and I'll be damned if one couldn't hack the game like the way one would try to play the Macedonians in RTW.

I don't think it counts as a hack when all you have to do is cut and paste the faction name in a notepad file.

I only really play RTR, my favorite tends to be romans, I just love their flexibility fo their infantry.

Medieval- Danes

Rome: Seleucids

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:How easily hackable is the M2TW? I read from a PCGames review of the game that Byzantines aren't initially playable and I'll be damned if one couldn't hack the game like the way one would try to play the Macedonians in RTW.

The Byzantines are playable when you finish the game once- it's just like in Rome. By contrast, Macedon was never playable. A crack to make all playable factions playable immediately will surely be available soon after release and will be no big deal.

Stark wrote:

Vympel wrote:Pfft. Another thing about the TR mod- just where the heck is their list of changes? They've got a web-page but no damn list.

Their page doesn't even seem to be updated anymore. I thought you'd like it just for the 'imaginative' units added to the end of the buildtree for historically weak/assimilated groups. And Bactrians, I mean seriously, Bactria rules.

It's moved to here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26

For Shogun it's the Shimazu, don't ask me why...

In Rome it was Greeks and in BI it was the Sassanids and Saxons. As for the upcoming MTW2? Well, I imagine England Expects, eh?

Darth Wong wrote:Really? In my experience, it was almost comically easy to hold a bridge as either Roman faction, because the plumbatarii can create a brutal killing zone at the end of the bridge with their iron darts, you can pour in artillery fire onto the bridge while they're trying to cross, and your archers can pepper any men or horses trying to cross the water. I found that I could wipe out mammoth armies quite easily in those bridge-crossing battles.

Yes, but I had to exterminate the Sarmatians one turn, the Vandals the next, then the Goths, Huns, etc. If you can hold a bridge against 5,000 Barbarians, do it again the very next turn, and the next, and the next, and keep a bridge blocking force up to strength, then you're a better player then I.

Setzer wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Really? In my experience, it was almost comically easy to hold a bridge as either Roman faction, because the plumbatarii can create a brutal killing zone at the end of the bridge with their iron darts, you can pour in artillery fire onto the bridge while they're trying to cross, and your archers can pepper any men or horses trying to cross the water. I found that I could wipe out mammoth armies quite easily in those bridge-crossing battles.

Yes, but I had to exterminate the Sarmatians one turn, the Vandals the next, then the Goths, Huns, etc. If you can hold a bridge against 5,000 Barbarians, do it again the very next turn, and the next, and the next, and keep a bridge blocking force up to strength, then you're a better player then I.

I beat BI as the WRE on VH/VH difficulty, so I didn't have eastern archers or cataphracts at my disposal. It can most certainly be done, although my preferred tactic was to garrison my cities with a small number of heavy infantry, moderate numbers of light infantry, and large numbers of archers. Then I would let them attack my cities and I would attack them every turn with archers in an attempt to whittle down their numbers before they finally assaulted the city. When they attacked the city, I would completely wipe out their army; I destroyed the entire Hun faction in a single battle that way when they attacked one of my eastern cities.

If you prefer to meet them in the field, you need to keep a steady flow of reinforcements going to your field army. You can keep up an army's strength by redistributing men from one unit into another so that each individual unit is at full strength, and when one unit is depleted to nothing, replace it with a reinforcing unit.

Yeah, I think the problem was that I had to keep the western bridge strong too, and the only city I could really shuttle reinforcements from was Constantinople, which had an insufficient garrison.

Setzer wrote:Yeah, I think the problem was that I had to keep the western bridge strong too, and the only city I could really shuttle reinforcements from was Constantinople, which had an insufficient garrison.

Let them lay siege to Constantinople. You can kill large numbers of them each turn by attacking the besieging army and simply lining up large numbers of archers on your walls so that you can nail them while they're rearranging their forces. After two or three turns of this, they'll attack your city, and if you know how to defend a city well, you can easily get 10:1 kill ratios or better.

Darth Wong wrote:

Setzer wrote:Yeah, I think the problem was that I had to keep the western bridge strong too, and the only city I could really shuttle reinforcements from was Constantinople, which had an insufficient garrison.

Let them lay siege to Constantinople. You can kill large numbers of them each turn by attacking the besieging army and simply lining up large numbers of archers on your walls so that you can nail them while they're rearranging their forces. After two or three turns of this, they'll attack your city, and if you know how to defend a city well, you can easily get 10:1 kill ratios or better.

How do you do this? Attack them with archers on the field then withdraw when they come chasing at you or? I'm not sure what you mean by that as well, barbarian cavalry makes short work of archers and they are fast.

Or do you do a sortie or something?

I have read that people have had Constantinople sacked and raped early game and the only reason they survived was they relied on the cities on Asia Minor and held on Antioch and fought back the Sassanids. I played the game on VH/VH and well, I have dared to fight the barbarians on the field once and lost 1/2 my field army in each of 2 battles. I destroyed the Huns largely by assasination and hunting down small bits of their armies. Was quite poised to annihiliate the Goths but their rampaging cavalry is really hard to deal with on the field even with Kilibani and Cataphrateoi and Scholari Palantini which I think fairs better against the Barbarians.