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CmdrWilkens wrote:

Steve wrote:If this is how things are with the whole "must be so powerful to have carriers", how come I didn't get complaints for being a Kingdom that started the game with a navy centered around three conventional-powered 57,500 ton CVs and three Wasp-analogue LHDs? Nor did anyone complain when I continued the program that led to my new 65,000T CVNs (one entered service in 2017, the other won't until 2019-2020). Is the complaint just about carriers above a certain tonnage or with nuclear capability?

I mean, I agree with Wilkens' logic, but this is really something that should've been put into the game rules from the getgo.

Here is the thing, and I probably haven't madethis clear enough because I did partially object to your carriers when construction started:

These things are damn expennsive. Building them even more so, building them when you can't support continuous yard operations is even more so. In otherwords its fine to start off with carriers but the longer you have them the more they will age and wear out. When a 3 carrier nation goes to build a 60,000+ ton vehicle then it should incur a cost penalty (for having to retool the yards) and a time penalty (for having to retool the yards).

I'm going to try to put together a set of proposed ideas for fleet carrier construction but I think it would be fair enough to say that for any nation without dedicated facilities (and you'd need either to have allies or a navy or your own with at least 6-8 ships for a dedicated yard) it shoudl take a decade from first funding and 6 years from keel to commissioing a fleet carrier. The US does it in 8 from funding and 4 from keel which is what a dedicated yard should be able to do.

Anyway I willwork on amroe detailedproposal andoffer it for consideration before the weekendis out.

In my defense, I actually made sure I had the logical capability for things like nuclear reactors (I had SSNs already in service and I've been building SSNs rather constantly for the entire game) and the Reprisal wasn't much of a leap over the Defiant in terms of size, an increase of less than 10,000 tons. Also, it did take five or six years to build, as I believe I stated that it was finally laid during 2010 and my period of absence from the game after the Astarian situation went kablooey.

I'd always conceived that the Defiant-class was designed in the 1980s, so it is feasible - especially cost-wise - that Cascadia built its current LHD and CVA fleet - the one it started the game with - over the course of the late 80s through the 90s to the early 00s, and that before that there was a 30-35 ton helo carrier design, later worked to use STOVLs, called the Republic-class (one is still in service with the Adabani, to be added to the Pacific Union service). I'll gladly tinker with my proposed CVN fleet to enable that fleet to represent a replacement cycle with a further spread out construction schedule (though I believe I've already posted that Defiant will probably be decommissioned and put up for sale by 2019 and I may have it go on a final deployment this game year).

And there's always the possibility that Cascadian shipyards have also built vessels for other nations, especially some of the new ones we're adding (hooray for retroactive justifications! ), to help maintain the needed expertise.

Actually, out of curiosity, who here actively uses AIM or at least has SNs for it if you don't?

i use addium, but you can find me on YIM as "crossroads_inc42"

I have AIM as well: I'm comradepollux.




...don't ask.

SiegeTank wrote:
No. Why? They're just flavor. The written text is the game, the pictures are just there as optional decoration. Or do you go "hay that's not San Dorado, that's NEW YORK" everytime I post an atmospheric picture of SDC? If we were to adopt this as a rule it would inevitably lead to utterly preposterous situations and you know it.

There is one whopper of suspension of disbelief on *posting major city* or *Posting a USCG cutter*. In those cases it's clear that, say, the NFT doesn't really have their cutters painted in USCG scheme, it's suppose to give an approximation of the ship. Likewise, no one here seriously thinks that the various MESS countries all fly USN Ensigns off of those DDGs. But the point is specific classes are being shown as part of the military.

That would be like if I posted a Gearing class DD and claimed it to be a DDG-52 class ship. That would be poor story telling, at best.

Lonestar wrote:That would be like if I posted a Gearing class DD and claimed it to be a DDG-52 class ship. That would be poor story telling, at best.

I see what you mean, but want to point out that even if this is obvious to former sailormen such as yourself, I (and I daresay a number of other players) meanwhile have to hit up Wikipedia to even find out what a Gearing class DD is, or that a 'DDG-52' is a Burke.

Continuing from that, there's quite a difference between using a black-and-white photo taken during WW2 and claiming the ship depicted is a modern missile destroyer, and using a reasonably modern medium carrier and claiming it's, well, a reasonably modern medium carrier. Besides when Crossroads posted his image I didn't realize I was looking at a Clemenceau, and I like to think I know at least a thing or two about modern warships.

Basically then my point is that what ruins suspension of disbelief for one person does not necessarily do so for everybody else, and we should cut players some slack when it comes to the images they choose to use to illustrate their posts. To use your example, I think it would be silly for anyone to use a picture of Gearing in a post about a modern warship, but if the text describes a ship packing missiles and a SPY-1 radar, I'm not going to assume the text is wrong and the ship is actually a floating antique with none of the mentioned attributes.

Lonestar wrote:

SiegeTank wrote:
No. Why? They're just flavor. The written text is the game, the pictures are just there as optional decoration. Or do you go "hay that's not San Dorado, that's NEW YORK" everytime I post an atmospheric picture of SDC? If we were to adopt this as a rule it would inevitably lead to utterly preposterous situations and you know it.

There is one whopper of suspension of disbelief on *posting major city* or *Posting a USCG cutter*. In those cases it's clear that, say, the NFT doesn't really have their cutters painted in USCG scheme, it's suppose to give an approximation of the ship. Likewise, no one here seriously thinks that the various MESS countries all fly USN Ensigns off of those DDGs. But the point is specific classes are being shown as part of the military.

That would be like if I posted a Gearing class DD and claimed it to be a DDG-52 class ship. That would be poor story telling, at best.

If your personal interpretation of the picture would be somehow disadvantageous to the player who posted it, point this out to them and ask them if that's what they really meant before going off and posting shit that makes you look like a poor sport and a moron all in one go.

This isn't fucking rocket science, you know.

Ryan Thunder wrote: If your personal interpretation of the picture would be somehow disadvantageous to the player who posted it, point this out to them and ask them if that's what they really meant before going off and posting shit that makes you look like a poor sport and a moron all in one go.

This isn't fucking rocket science, you know.

Fuck off, my job is not to help out the intellectually lazy, ESPECIALLY when they do stuff like "MASSIVE NAVAL EXERCISES" as a means of showing their power, then posting a photo form the '80s.

That picture of Paul does in fact represent King Paul and not an approximation from which you can imagine the real Paul.

I'm not making any sense today.

SO I am working on an actual detailed OOB following what Ive seen of others...

Clemounen Class Carrier (INC Variant)
INC22-CCC Pride of Bishounen
INC21-CCC Yaoishima
INC20-CCC Sesshomaru

Iowa Class Battleship
INC42-BB Studibaker

large LHA/LHD - 12

Ticonderoga Class Missile Cruisers - 24
INC015-MC
#'s 015-039

Cheung-class destroyer - 50

Neuse-class frigate - 80
attack submarine - 20

Following advice from Beowulf last night, I went "Shopping" on the sdnworld wiki and picked out specific ship variants, if any of these are specific to a nation or not for sale, let me know. If not, please consider that these were bought long ago.

Another word of advice, I wouldn't spend the enormous amount of money in maintaining a BB, if I were you.

Also, you're buying some Neuse River ships from me? Awesome Be advised that "patrol frigate" is a better term(Beo even has them labeled as Corvettes in his navy), and that they are very austurely kitted out. Me and Beowulf originally came up with the design because of a need for a cheapo ASW vessel. If you want a Anti-air warfare frigate, there are better options out there.

Lonestar wrote:Fuck off, my job is not to help out the intellectually lazy, ESPECIALLY when they do stuff like "MASSIVE NAVAL EXERCISES" as a means of showing their power, then posting a photo form the '80s.

We should use photos from the 2017s.

Perhaps we should stick disclaimers like "I just want to post pictures of big cool ships, but this picture is not actually representive of what we've really got in-game"?

Be nice, Loinstar. We're all Super-Best-Friends. Besides, Crossroads is new. We should welcome him nicely.

Lonestar wrote:Another word of advice, I wouldn't spend the enormous amount of money in maintaining a BB, if I were you.

Also, you're buying some Neuse River ships from me? Awesome Be advised that "patrol frigate" is a better term(Beo even has them labeled as Corvettes in his navy), and that they are very austurely kitted out. Me and Beowulf originally came up with the design because of a need for a cheapo ASW vessel. If you want a Anti-air warfare frigate, there are better options out there.

Thanks for the heads up "Corvette" is actually fine for me, since that is the role I will be putting them in. As far as the BB goes, I should mention it is kept in "Reserve" and not active duty. There is a slight amount paid in upkeep on it, but only to keep its systems from degrading, I am going to assume that cost will be far less then keeping the ship in active duty.

As far as an anti-air frigate, I am still lookng for one.

And Shroom? Really its ok.. his fury isnt against me, so I don't care I've learned my lesson, and so far the only thing thats happened is Im using smaller carriers then most others. I'm compensating for this by saying they are upgraded up the YingYang with modern equipment, so I don't mind...

As for YOU we need to finalize our Tuna farming, fishery deal and Inport/Export agreements. Ive got to get another 4%of profit to make my "president" happy

The deal's good. We can work together and build sustainable mega fish farms around the coasts of both our big island nations.

Crossroads, if this 'develop the CFR' deal goes through I'll be wanting to buy a bunch of your heavy-lift zeppelins to easily move stuff to undeveloped regions.

Do you by any chance have a military patrol version too?

Ok Shrroom sounds good, We'll finalize it with a game post and start farming fish!

SiegeTank wrote:Crossroads, if this 'develop the CFR' deal goes through I'll be wanting to buy a bunch of your heavy-lift zeppelins to easily move stuff to undeveloped regions.

Do you by any chance have a military patrol version too?

I have a high altitude version that is solar powered and a bit like a spy satellite, only costs WAY less, and I have a smaller faster version based on the blended body Zepplin design. Both are currently in production and I will be happy to sell you.

and

I don't really need a high-altitude spy zeppelin, I've got plenty reconnaissance satellites already... This'd be more of a close-observation thing to keep an eye on unruly AK-wielding mobs on technicals. Possibly with a howitzer mounted in the side, 'cause now that I think of it zeppelin gunships would be kind of cool, and potentially useful in Frequesue and Velaria.

Hmm, given the load lift capicity of the Smaller Patrol Zepplin, you COULD mount such a gun to it if you really wanted, but you wouldn't be able to armor it much. Of course if a Zepplin Does get shot up, unlike a plan or copter, it won't suddenly plummet to the ground like a stone.

Exactly. And the guys I'd most likely be shooting at wouldn't have more than the usual decades-old RPG or MANPAD anyway; a few simple countermeasures should do the trick. You know what, I'll take a few of those right away to see if the concept works, with a follow-up order as soon as Indhopal and the NFT finalize the CFR deal.

SiegeTank wrote:Exactly. And the guys I'd most likely be shooting at wouldn't have more than the usual decades-old RPG or MANPAD anyway; a few simple countermeasures should do the trick. You know what, I'll take a few of those right away to see if the concept works, with a follow-up order as soon as Indhopal and the NFT finalize the CFR deal.

Sounds good to me~! Price on them is realtivly cheap, though you'll need hangers and helium fueltanks for them. Normally the military Zep Variants cost about 7mil a piece, but i'll cut a deal for a dozen of them for just a total of 72million if that sounds good.

For satellite-like zeppelins, Shroomania already has stratellites and has sold stratellites to San Dorado. Didn't you buy some AEW&C ones, Siege?

Anyone want to invest in Shroomania and Byzantium's Mach 3+ airliner?



Or SUPER Blended Wing Body designs?



It's way HUEGER than the A380 and will need bigass airfields tho.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:For satellite-like zeppelins, Shroomania already has stratellites and has sold stratellites to San Dorado. Didn't you buy some AEW&C ones, Siege?

Anyone want to invest in Shroomania and Byzantium's Mach 3+ airliner?

Did you steal that from being on the design team for the DOMINION M3 airliner?

DOMINION M3? Your Sonic Cruiser uses a different design picture, right?

I posted Shroomania's supersonic airline plans with Byzantium, like, a couple weeks ago I think.

See, and THAT is the best advertisement for buying MY Luxory Passenger Zepplins!!!



But a blended body Megaplane? Look at the size of that thing, think of the Airstripes you'll need! the MASSIVE runways! And what about safety? Goodness, if the engines went out on that monstrosity you are looking at close to 600deaths... If the engines went out on one of my ships? Well, you would be delayed till on bored repair crew could walk out to the engines and fix them, and if worse comes to worse, get a "tow" to a nearby airfield.

Buy Safe!
Buy Secure!
Buy Crossroadia!

How many YEARS does it take for that THING to cross the Atlantic?

And, Jesus, you're using almost THE EXACT SAME PICS Coyote has been using for his Canissian zeppelin transporters.