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Havok wrote:Wait... I'm sorry... the Reaper that ATTACKS YOU was dormant?

No, EDI says it's a reaper when it's just chilling out before you start shooting at it.

And even if it was, there was a Reaper that was dormant that they got the IFF from. It's not like EDI hasn't had a chance to scan them.

Stop and think about what "scanning" is. It would help if we had the exact dialogue EDI said.


Ok, I've nabbed a video.

EDI wrote:The tubes are leading into some kind of superstructure. It is emitting both organic and non-organic energy signatures. Given these readings, it must be massive. Shepard. If my calculations are correct, the super-structure... is a reaper.

The organic/non-organic energy signatures part made me giggle.

adam_grif wrote:Stop and think about what "scanning" is. It would help if we had the exact dialogue EDI said.

Scanning... you mean like being able to isolate a specific type of metal from orbit?

EDI wrote:The tubes are leading into some kind of superstructure. It is emitting both organic and non-organic energy signatures. Given these readings, it must be massive. Shepard. If my calculations are correct, the super-structure... is a reaper.

The organic/non-organic energy signatures part made me giggle.

So EDI, who is partially based on Reaper tech, has scanned examined all the information Cerberus has on Sovereign and the derelict Reaper makes what amounts to a computer 'guess' that the big thing in the room is a Reaper... and this is incredulous why?

Yes, the energy signatures part is silly. I agree.

PeZook wrote:It was made with the same material, sure, but that wasn't readily apparent, either, unless Shepard has a spectrograph in his helmet.

Maybe not in his helmet, but it seems quite plausible to me that his omni-tool has one. It's supposed to be a combined sensor / computing / micro-fabrication system.

That said, it is certainly annoying when people specify vague 'sensors' and 'scanners' without specifying the operating mechanism. All that effort to describe a quantum entanglement communicator, and we still get magic sensors (sigh).

Scanning... you mean like being able to isolate a specific type of metal from orbit?

Blah blah gameplay mechanics blah blah. Equally silly as discussed previously, but we can't really hold something like that against it except for it being boring as fuck.

So EDI, who is partially based on Reaper tech, has scanned examined all the information Cerberus has on Sovereign and the derelict Reaper makes what amounts to a computer 'guess' that the big thing in the room is a Reaper... and this is incredulous why?

"Based on Reaper tech = can identify reapers" is a very vague inference indeed. What's odd is that EDI had some kind of data, maybe RADAR or LADAR or something (only thing I can really think of that it might have, but I have no idea how it got it through unless there's a high resolution radar built into hardsuits or something), and from this giant T-800, concludes that it's a reaper superstructure. That's just kind of really odd, especially since we've only had 2 Reapers to analyze, one of them in a zillion fragmented pieces and the other mostly dead, both of which were shaped nothing like that. If you watch the videos, she makes the Reaper conclusion before he even enters the room itself. How the fuck?

The Energy signature thing is, as we agree, a bit silly. I don't really understand how something being partially made of carbon but also made of things that are not carbon is very useful for identifying things since everything in THE FUTURE (TM) is apparently made out of advanced composites, ablative armor and so on. It's just more stuff the writers didn't really think about. Something to get from point A to point B. Unfortunately, the method they chose doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and point B is fucking stupid anyway with the fucking slushee machine of doom.

adam_grif wrote:

So EDI, who is partially based on Reaper tech, has scanned examined all the information Cerberus has on Sovereign and the derelict Reaper makes what amounts to a computer 'guess' that the big thing in the room is a Reaper... and this is incredulous why?

"Based on Reaper tech = can identify reapers" is a very vague inference indeed. What's odd is that EDI had some kind of data, maybe RADAR or LADAR or something (only thing I can really think of that it might have, but I have no idea how it got it through unless there's a high resolution radar built into hardsuits or something), and from this giant T-800, concludes that it's a reaper superstructure. That's just kind of really odd, especially since we've only had 2 Reapers to analyze, one of them in a zillion fragmented pieces and the other mostly dead, both of which were shaped nothing like that. If you watch the videos, she makes the Reaper conclusion before he even enters the room itself. How the fuck?

EDI is able to produce a complete and accurate schematic of the Collector base just from landing on it's hull. Whatever mechanism her sensors use, they are pretty fucking advanced and invasive. And it is reasonable to think that she was scanning the Collector ship from the time they landed. She is also able to hack into their computers systems as we saw a few times.
And undoubtedly, despite the size and configuration difference, there are going to be similarities between the old Reaper and the new Reaper. Joints, servos, pistons, the metal/armor itself. I doubt that after millions of years, they all of a sudden came up with a new designs for their basic parts. Hell, just knowing that all the human goo is going into a gigantic human shaped body in the context of who they are fighting, it isn't a huge leap of logic to think it would be a Reaper.

EDI is able to produce a complete and accurate schematic of the Collector base just from landing on it's hull. Whatever mechanism her sensors use, they are pretty fucking advanced and invasive. And it is reasonable to think that she was scanning the Collector ship from the time they landed.

So you're repeating what we already concluded previously, that they're magic, Trek style sensors with no well defined method of operation.

She is also able to hack into their computers systems as we saw a few times.

Yes, but she said she is going off her scan data, not that she hacked them and found files indicating that it's a reaper.

And undoubtedly, despite the size and configuration difference, there are going to be similarities between the old Reaper and the new Reaper. Joints, servos, pistons, the metal/armor itself. I doubt that after millions of years, they all of a sudden came up with a new designs for their basic parts. Hell, just knowing that all the human goo is going into a gigantic human shaped body in the context of who they are fighting, it isn't a huge leap of logic to think it would be a Reaper.

I don't know about you, but if I saw a bunch of liquified people being fed into a giant human skeleton, "they're building a space ship" is just about last on the list of things I'd think it was

Subset of two might well be enough if it's really distinctive, like a space battleship . If I saw a B-17 on an airfield with nose art, I wouldn't suddenly think "it's a park sculpture." It doesn't have to fly or even be on for me to guess it's a plane, especially if I just saw a B-25 flying close up earlier.

adam_grif wrote:I don't know about you, but if I saw a bunch of liquified people being fed into a giant human skeleton, "they're building a space ship" is just about last on the list of things I'd think it was

Wasn't he just talking about EDI making an informed guess?