StarDestroyer.Net BBS

As for them being non-assets, imagine how many valuable people they can keep if they keep their medical frigate for when people need medical services after a mission as compared to hoping for a facility nearby.

That's kind of something a fledging Resistance might want, no? Imagine if the Raddus hadn't been as stocked on medical supplies like they were with fuel, while Finn and Leia needed medical care. Oh well, it can't take down a Star Destroyer single handedly, so it's just garbage to be thrown away, right?

Leadership like that ensures your organization has nothing pretty quickly.

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-12-30 01:30pm

Vendetta wrote: 2017-12-30 01:27pm

Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-30 01:20pm

The AV Club is a publication of The Onion, so unless Gawker bought them it's not Gawkerverse.

At any rate, they could hyperdrive somewhere better by going to, I don't know, Corellia. Unless the contention is really that every single warship not under the command of the First Order was at Hosnian and D'Qar, there are plenty of places to go where they'd find heavy-hitting help that wouldn't care overmuch for Snoke's fan club.

Yeah, it's explicit that the Republic fleet is gone.

The Resistance has no armed support, there's nowhere to run to where anyone will fight for them. All running to somewhere like Corellia would get them is an audience to watch them die.

Then who were they expecting to bail them out? Who were they running to communicate with? They clearly thought at the end someone other than Luke would come and rescue them at the end. They 'had allies all thorough out the outer rim' explicitly.

Apart from the fact they didn't, nobody would come to fight for them, that was a very different context. That was asking for help against an already crippled fleet to fend off a ground invasion, not a fully operational fleet with the First Order's flagship in it.

Also, their assumed allies were sufficiently diffuse that they needed a wideband broadcast that could go everywhere, implying there were no single concentrations of force they could contact.

Vendetta wrote: 2017-12-30 01:48pm Apart from the fact they didn't, nobody would come to fight for them, that was a very different context. That was asking for help against an already crippled fleet to fend off a ground invasion, not a fully operational fleet with the First Order's flagship in it.

Also, their assumed allies were sufficiently diffuse that they needed a wideband broadcast that could go everywhere, implying there were no single concentrations of force they could contact.

Fair point on force concentration but the Raddus only took out Snoke's ship iirc? There was still a fair fleet of the TFA Star Destroyers left to overcome before taking on the landing force.

If they came or not is irrelevant to the fact they must exist.

Several of the Resurgent class escorts were destroyed by debris from the Raddus' impact on the Supremacy. It wasn't the entire escorting force, though, so yes, there were still a few.

streetad wrote: 2017-12-30 09:25amFair enough.

I still think if we are trying to say something about the real world it would be those exact kids who would be welcoming the First Order with open arms as purveyors of false hope. What has the Rebellion/Republic ever done for them anyway?

The First Order does not even pretend to be anything but despots who will work you to death. Hell, they probably broadcast their slave labour factories.

NecronLord wrote: 2017-12-30 02:18pm

streetad wrote: 2017-12-30 09:25amFair enough.

I still think if we are trying to say something about the real world it would be those exact kids who would be welcoming the First Order with open arms as purveyors of false hope. What has the Rebellion/Republic ever done for them anyway?

The First Order does not even pretend to be anything but despots who will work you to death. Hell, they probably broadcast their slave labour factories.

Dying as a First Order stormtrooper might be considered a better life than dying as a slave prepubescent orphan cleaning out manure from stables and starving.

I wonder how much of the FO's rank and file come from the Galactic Civil War's disposessed? If the New Republic couldn't get roofs over heads and bellies full, the stability of the FO might seem tempting to a lot of people.

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-30 02:32pm I wonder how much of the FO's rank and file come from the Galactic Civil War's disposessed? If the New Republic couldn't get roofs over heads and bellies full, the stability of the FO might seem tempting to a lot of people.

It does make me wonder if all the FO's troops are conscripted, or if they do have the occasional volunteer.

Vendetta wrote: 2017-12-30 01:27pm
Yeah, it's explicit that the Republic fleet is gone.

I don't think it's explicit that every ship the Republic had was there no. But even if it is, that is the dumbest, most idiotic act of plot ever. That all of a sudden, out of a galaxy spanning Republic that should be friendly to Leia and her group, that no where is there a place to go. There is not one single planet anywhere in millions of planets that would help a Hero of the Rebel Alliance?

Too dumb for words.

The Resistance has no armed support, there's nowhere to run to where anyone will fight for them. All running to somewhere like Corellia would get them is an audience to watch them die.

Why would that be? That's a pretty big assumption. Mere hours ago the Republic ruled a good chunk of the galaxy. There is nothing in the movies to show that they ruled badly, or ruled barely in control. Why is there no where to go? Why would a planet that hours ago was a loyal member of the Republic all of a sudden turn on them? Sure, the destruction of D'qar would be big news, but so would the news of the Starkiller base.

It's possible the First Order used Starkiller Base when it did because the majority of the Republic fleet and government was in system. Maybe for a review or some other reason.

That's the best time to strike, if the Republic was that stupid. One shot, most of the enemy structure gone? You'd have the entire galaxy going 'Oh shit', very quickly.

Solauren wrote: 2017-12-30 03:28pm It's possible the First Order used Starkiller Base when it did because the majority of the Republic fleet and government was in system. Maybe for a review or some other reason.

That's the best time to strike, if the Republic was that stupid. One shot, most of the enemy structure gone? You'd have the entire galaxy going 'Oh shit', very quickly.

They could still go somewhere where there would be some military strength, and not losing three ships and who knows how many transports on a hunch that the base they're going to won't be detected, as opposed to a planet with an operational shield, it's own defense force, and supplies for them to use once all the shooting is over.

Doesn't this whole film take place in the few days after TFA? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of planets were in a position of paralysis after Starkiller blew up the capital and apparently started seizing planets.

Who's going to risk being the first open opponent of the First Order?

FaxModem1 wrote: 2017-12-30 02:29pm

NecronLord wrote: 2017-12-30 02:18pm

streetad wrote: 2017-12-30 09:25amFair enough.

I still think if we are trying to say something about the real world it would be those exact kids who would be welcoming the First Order with open arms as purveyors of false hope. What has the Rebellion/Republic ever done for them anyway?

The First Order does not even pretend to be anything but despots who will work you to death. Hell, they probably broadcast their slave labour factories.

Dying as a First Order stormtrooper might be considered a better life than dying as a slave prepubescent orphan cleaning out manure from stables and starving.

We know from other sources the First Order uses chattel slavery too. So, no garuntee they'll get to be stormtroopers. Electro-whips and hard labour from the First Order too.

In Disney canon, GE Stormtroopers under Pappa Hux's programme also suffered full death of personality during conditioning, FO ones likely do too. May as well jump off a cliff; the trooper is a different person.

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-30 04:16pm Doesn't this whole film take place in the few days after TFA? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of planets were in a position of paralysis after Starkiller blew up the capital and apparently started seizing planets.

Who's going to risk being the first open opponent of the First Order?

It's possible the actual Republic is in paralysis. Still, out of millions of star systems, not one is screaming for war/revenge/strike back after getting their capital nuked? Not one has their own defensive system, shield, patrol craft, fighters, a couple cruisers, ground based anti ship guns? Not one?

Knife wrote: 2017-12-30 03:24pm Why would that be? That's a pretty big assumption. Mere hours ago the Republic ruled a good chunk of the galaxy. There is nothing in the movies to show that they ruled badly, or ruled barely in control. Why is there no where to go? Why would a planet that hours ago was a loyal member of the Republic all of a sudden turn on them? Sure, the destruction of D'qar would be big news, but so would the news of the Starkiller base.

The Republic was mostly demilitarised, and in TFA the First Order openly says they have destroyed its fleet in the destruction of the capital system.

The First Order is the largest extant military power in the galaxy, nobody can help them militarily right now, and even if the First Order doesn't have the military power of the Empire it will be years before anyone organises well enough to fight them in open battle.

The protagonists in Mom and Dad Save the World were more competent than the New Republic, then? Your defense of the situation in the film's is essentially that stupidity is canon?

https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/stat ... 4867318785

I thought it was worth sharing.

Vendetta wrote: 2017-12-30 05:28pm

Knife wrote: 2017-12-30 03:24pm Why would that be? That's a pretty big assumption. Mere hours ago the Republic ruled a good chunk of the galaxy. There is nothing in the movies to show that they ruled badly, or ruled barely in control. Why is there no where to go? Why would a planet that hours ago was a loyal member of the Republic all of a sudden turn on them? Sure, the destruction of D'qar would be big news, but so would the news of the Starkiller base.

The Republic was mostly demilitarised, and in TFA the First Order openly says they have destroyed its fleet in the destruction of the capital system.

The First Order is the largest extant military power in the galaxy, nobody can help them militarily right now, and even if the First Order doesn't have the military power of the Empire it will be years before anyone organises well enough to fight them in open battle.

So, this episode of the Simpsons was what happened between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens? No one decided to keep a few sector fleets, just in case pirates came along or the Hutts looked to do some slaving?

Is that what you're really arguing?

Literally can't be true. Again the allies they were trying to contact must reasonably be able to fight off several Star Destroyers and the ground forces they landed. Either surviving republic forces or private or local militaries. Unless Leia's and Holdo's plan was completely pointless

There's a lot of wiggle room in Hux's statement maybe it was only the republic main fleet and there are others, maybe it's a pearl harbour situation and some ships were out system. Maybe there are many ships on independent cruises or in mothballs, or laid up in ordinary been put back in action.

But right after Tfa they are still dispersed and need time to organise. The Fo can be the most consolidated fighting force in the galaxy with momentum behind them but I hope EpIX will be sensible about it

There will be no sense. Don't get your hopes up.

It's also worth noting that the First Order had agents within the New Republic Senate who may have used their political influence to weaken the military even further. Even so, TFA implied that the NR fleet was still powerful enough to dissuade the FO against a direct confrontation, which is why they had to use the Starkiller from afar.

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: 2017-12-30 06:03pm
https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/stat ... 4867318785

I thought it was worth sharing.

This from the guy who let Kirk get killed by a falling bridge.

Vendetta wrote: 2017-12-30 05:28pm

Knife wrote: 2017-12-30 03:24pm Why would that be? That's a pretty big assumption. Mere hours ago the Republic ruled a good chunk of the galaxy. There is nothing in the movies to show that they ruled badly, or ruled barely in control. Why is there no where to go? Why would a planet that hours ago was a loyal member of the Republic all of a sudden turn on them? Sure, the destruction of D'qar would be big news, but so would the news of the Starkiller base.

The Republic was mostly demilitarised, and in TFA the First Order openly says they have destroyed its fleet in the destruction of the capital system.

It can't be demilitarized because it was holding the FO back. I could have been downsized from GE time, sure. But that's not the same thing. If the Republic was weak militarily wise, there is no need for Starkiller base.

And the novel states

TFA novel Pg 175 wrote: Turning the planet into what the astrophysicists called a pocket nova. Expanding outward from the explosion, a tremendous burst of heat tore through the Hosnian system's other worlds, searing their surfaces clean of life and incidentally obliterating all settlements, installations, and outposts, as well as the hundreds of ships belonging to the Republic fleet.

Not the hundreds of ships that comprised the Republic fleet. And even if it did, that's nonsense to have a couple hundred ships for a galactic fleet. Hux talked about destroying the 'cherished Republic fleet' but that's obvious hyperbole in his propaganda speech prior to actually shooting the weapon. The next few pages, the Resistance said they lost Republic Command, which is important and would throw what is left in disarray.

But I don't see anything in there about ALL the Republic fleet being destroyed. And even if it did, again, that is ridiculous and lazy writing and horrible act of plot.

The First Order is the largest extant military power in the galaxy, nobody can help them militarily right now, and even if the First Order doesn't have the military power of the Empire it will be years before anyone organises well enough to fight them in open battle.

That was held in check by the supposedly weak but strong fleet supported by a weak but strong government who ruled a galaxy of apparently disloyal fucks who folded to the man a couple hours after a sneak attack on their capital.

I can imagine that many of the worlds sympathetic to the Resistance have strong planetary defenses yet lack the means to project significant military power. Even if they did, they may have been unwilling to leave their own worlds undefended during what would have undoubtedly been a chaotic period of time throughout the entire galaxy.

Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-30 07:36pm I can imagine that many of the worlds sympathetic to the Resistance have strong planetary defenses yet lack the means to project significant military power. Even if they did, they may have been unwilling to leave their own worlds undefended during what would have undoubtedly been a chaotic period of time throughout the entire galaxy.

So, if the flotilla went to a sympathetic system, say Mon Calamari, and went there. The First Order would have to deal with both the Resistance flotilla and the Mon Calamari home fleet.

Which means that Holdo had a bad plan.

Flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

Knife wrote: 2017-12-30 07:20pm lazy writing and horrible act of plot

I think we might as well get used to this as the new normal for the sequels. I want to be proven badly wrong, but the fact that they have abrams coming back for IX makes me very pessimistic.