SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Simon_Jester]

It is not at all too late- we don't even have a map, game start won't be for at least two more weeks and probably a bit more, and bringing in nations after game start is perfectly fine as long as we can work out a way to avoid awkwardness.

[rolls 2d6]

OK, ECR, you have a 9. Thus, you have a total of 25+9 = 34 Nation Creation Points. Now, did you intend your society of von Neumann robo-octopi to occupy a definable territory on a map? Bear in mind that such a territory can be quite large- hyperdrive speeds are "about one day per sector-width" and sectors are "less than but not much less than 100 light years across." There are not many naturally occuring habitable worlds per sectors, but there's plenty of room for a semi-nomadic society to wander around.

If having a definite, bounded region of space 'owned' by your civilization works, we can proceed from there. If not, we'll need to arrange something slightly more complicated, possibly along the same lines as what Rabid's doing with the Nation (a large community of space gypsies, more or less, tied to a small sacred territory but with individual groups wandering across much of known space).

[Skywalker_T-65]

^See, told you it would be okay. Now the question becomes what the two nomadic races (assuming ECR goes the Stellar Nation route) agree on. Will they be allies? Will they hate each other with a fiery passion? Or do they just ignore each other? This could end up being interesting.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, it really does depend on what ECR has in mind. "Nomadic" doesn't necessarily mean "found literally all over the map," after all. A nomadic AI culture that occupies a defined region of space four hundred light years across could be played as a perfectly normal nation in this game, even if in theory they'd move on from that area twenty or thirty years down the line.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I know, hence saying if he went the Rabid route. Though again, it could be interesting either way, since nomadic cultures are a new thing in SDNW5.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Hey, that's quite good, isn't it? Now give me a moment to read the rules...

What fits for this bunch, the Incirinnean Exody, is quite loose, diffuse territory- sort of Polynesian expansion, a few sweet spots with lots of thinly held distance between. Perhaps not to begin with; start sensibly enough, as a normal enough nation, but very ready to overextend themselves- a combination of naive optimism and desire to see the universe, they are self- repurposed probes after all- and probably in the process of doing exactly that.

Their definition of habitable might be a bit odd; have to think about their construction and limitations, but energy and metal rich well before green grass and blue sky- probably just as few, though.

[Rabid]

As long as the terraformers don't go making a mess of the planets of the Hub or don't try to evict the Nation from Ascension, there shouldn't be any problem co-existing. Thinking of that, as Ascension is devoid of any habitable planet the Doxa wouldn't mind having terraformers doing their terraforming things there - what with spreading the Blessing of the Flame Of The-Life-We-All-Share in a sector of space previously devoid of it and all that...

Just don't wander into the Terminus Sector. That would be a bad idea : Pirates, thick and heavy Hyperspace Shoals, Pirates, a Planet-That-Is-Death, Pirates... The place is pretty hostile to civilized life, all in all.


I wish to assure you that the Stellar Nation has no relation whatsoever with the pirates activities in this sector of space or in the rest of the Known Galaxy.

[OmegaChief]

Oh hey, more cheery optimisitc and slight niave people, you guys would get along great with the Capellans!

[Simon_Jester]

I wish to assure you that the Stellar Nation has no relation whatsoever with the pirates activities in this sector of space or in the rest of the Known Galaxy.

You're space gypsies. OF COURSE everyone thinks you're also space thieves.

[cadbrowser]

I wish to take a stab at this game. I am new to the concept of RPG over the internet so bear with me. I have been reading the other related threads to this as far as the SDNW5 goes. I think I understand.

While I don't have a name yet, I do have a concept that's been tumblin around my brain and I want to make sure it won't violate the rules.

It's kindof a combination of the Matrix/iRobot/Terminator wherein the central planet (?) is ruled by an AI. The dominat sentient lifeforms on this plant were overtaken via a programming error with their first series of von Neumann probes. Instead of seeding and mining the other planets and asteriods within its star system, the probes took over and nearly destroyed the creators.

Various wars inevitably caused the final undoing of "humanity" wherein all small animal type life forms and up were enslaved to be used as "batteries". As a result, the planet suffered as life cycles were distrupted and all vegetation was replaced with fields of incubation and harvesting equipment. Soon afterwards the von Neumann probes replicted towhere they occupied every planet, mined every asteriod, and thus began trekking to other star systems.

So, if the planet had no life, it was mined and an established "colony" representing a subset of the main AI was created, then linked to the homeworld mind to act as one. Any planets with life are enslaved and are considered a Primary parllel AI representative.

This is a VERY rough draft and I just came up with it. I will develop more history and etcetera to be on par with others that have posted.

I think what will end up happening at game time is that the Primary parallel AIs will develop self awarness apart from the main AI and steal the secondarys within it's star system. Which causes the beginnings of an internal war and temporarily suspends their expansion into other star systems.

Whatcha think?

[Panzersharkcat]

You may want to rethink the animals as batteries thing. Using that is horribly inefficient. It'd be easier to use geothermal energy unless you want that to be part of the AI glitch.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Hmm...sounds almost like Replicators. The question is, how can you make your monster AI interact with the other players? And can you craft an interesting story around them? From what I can tell, your nation seems to be of the type that would attack and destroy/enslave any race it came across. I can't speak for other players but the Arcadian's wouldn't like that at all. I also can't say if it breaks any rules, since I'm not a mod. But I can't see anything wrong with your idea, so good luck with getting it accepted.

(PS, I'm just as new to this as you are, I just adapted an idea from my own universe for this)

[White Haven]

...now I'm expecting to be violently bumping elbows with not one but two nomadic civilizations.

Leaguer: 'Fucking NOMADS!'
Trent a'la Freelancer: 'You have no idea...'

[Skywalker_T-65]

Hey, you may end up next to me still, and we are the exact opposite of nomads.

[Force Lord]

*Datton looks by*

Forg: "Nomads in SPACE? At least they're not of the barbarian variety!"

Sorge: "Why do I get the feeling that someone is watching us?"

[cadbrowser]

You may want to rethink the animals as batteries thing. Using that is horribly inefficient. It'd be easier to use geothermal energy unless you want that to be part of the AI glitch.

Remember I am borrowing that part from the Matrix...humans are animals too. I just didn't understand why the AI in the matrix limited themselves to gain bio-electricity from just humans. Doesn't have to be efficient for game play...right? Otherwise they would use any/all forms of ways to get power; Dyson shell, geothermal, hydroelectric, fusion, fission...etc etc. Maybe they do it all and encasing the animals in a planet is just another way.

Hmm...sounds almost like Replicators. The question is, how can you make your monster AI interact with the other players? And can you craft an interesting story around them? From what I can tell, your nation seems to be of the type that would attack and destroy/enslave any race it came across. I can't speak for other players but the Arcadian's wouldn't like that at all. I also can't say if it breaks any rules, since I'm not a mod. But I can't see anything wrong with your idea, so good luck with getting it accepted.

This is where the "terminator" part comes in. The replicators make ground troops to take over any planet with life/sentience. So they would be able study/assimilate culture for infiltration and conquer. Yes, I am most confident I can craft an interresting story.

You are partially correct with the attack/enslave part. Due to the "civil" war aspect it allows other systems to develop and flourish because that is a secondary protocol to the "original prime AI system" which would be complete unification before more world takeovers.

Logic is key here. once another race has come across "these guys" then it would be advantages to convince them that you are better off being allies. So this opens up a lot of possibilities for good roleplaying. Pre & Post game start when alliances are established, trade routes and etcetera.

Does that help?

[Skywalker_T-65]

That's good news. You never know with the more outlandish ideas how well the creator could do it. So they would go for the Nazi/Soviet Pact route? Allies now until their own problems are solved? More interesting story potential, though who knows who would go for it. Especially if the plan is to make it take years before the Replicators (I'm just going to call your nation that until you have a name okay?) are actually able to go back to the attack/enslave plan.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

At this stage I don't think they quite understand the meaning of "hostile", actually- isn't that something that happens on the radio shell from Prime World?
Probes, pathfinders, preparers. Supposed to go and do the practical work of colonisation, chart and map and prospect and make ready, for a race too trapped by health and safety do do it themselves- they sort of decided to go and do their own things instead. Too much adaptability in the heuristics.

Monster? What, you mean, the sort of fear and suspicion a spacegoing culture is supposed to leave behind? I mean, if you want to be attacked, destroyed and enslaved...in that order...wait, what? That's just barbaric. Why involve hard- working, innocent comet- pushers in your excursions into paranoia?

Can't you just do that sort of thing to yourselves, or is this some sort of budgeting procedure that makes it more practical to hire in outside consultants? Sort of thing was the bane of the early space age, you know.

Any race that wants to go to the stars to attract the attention of aliens so it can be conquered and abused...are you sure you're doing this "life" thing right? That doesn't sound very productive. (multi tentacled robot thing scratches head with at least three tentacles, wanders off to find a nice sane mass driver to talk to.)

Yes, there's plot juice in there. Now give me a moment to read the rules.

[cadbrowser]

LOL, yeah...that's kinda what I'm thinking. Course it'd totally be conceivable that another race could convince them to work together, release the slaves, or play all sides against each other so that they inevitably destroy themselves. The possibilities are endless here.

When I play RPGs (table top) I am very much into the role playing and story arcs and plot twists more so than just laying waste to everything. So, if the object of THIS game is soley to WIN and become the ruler of the universe, well then we will have fun with that...but, I'm not one of those who HAS to win to enjoy myself.

Calling them Replicators is fine for now. Who knows; I may even use it. Just trying to come up with a name some AI who considers itself god-like would choose for a name to rule. Subsequently what would the branched off Primaries call themsleves? Eeesh.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I don't believe that an SDNW even has a winner. Not unless we get in some massive war and only one Nation survives. Which if that happened the game would end rather quickly as the smaller nations (like Arcadia) get wiped out, while the larger ones slug it out.

And honestly, I'm only using Replicator as a name since that is the first thing to come to mind. Being a Stargate fan does that to you.

[Simon_Jester]

Skywalker is totally right; there is no one winner in an SDNW game. Trying to be the winner is a very bad idea and fills the game with stupidity and lameness.

LOL, yeah...that's kinda what I'm thinking. Course it'd totally be conceivable that another race could convince them to work together, release the slaves, or play all sides against each other so that they inevitably destroy themselves. The possibilities are endless here.

When I play RPGs (table top) I am very much into the role playing and story arcs and plot twists more so than just laying waste to everything. So, if the object of THIS game is soley to WIN and become the ruler of the universe, well then we will have fun with that...but, I'm not one of those who HAS to win to enjoy myself.

Calling them Replicators is fine for now. Who knows; I may even use it. Just trying to come up with a name some AI who considers itself god-like would choose for a name to rule. Subsequently what would the branched off Primaries call themsleves? Eeesh.

Something a bit more imaginative than 'replicators' might be good in the long run.

Hm. Name for the AI. Does it really have a god complex? Does it, personally, feel anything as human-ish as a messiah complex? Maybe it would just give itself an unpretentious name that nonetheless implies that it thinks it's at the center of the universe. Something like... [looks around, files the "Total Annihilation" logo off] "the Core."

[Rabid]

Interesting idea. Really, there's much potential for RP there.

Just one thing you have to be prepared for, though :
If there was to be a proved All-Life-Ending menace [RP idea : exploration team sent to get a report on the situation, and someone having the occasion to do a Picard SpeechTM to prevent what follows], here's what would be the Doxa's reaction :

[[[The High Council]]]

[Representative #125647] - "So, let me get this straight : If we do nothing, if we allow them to propagate, everything dies or gets enslaved ?"
[Third Chancellor] - "Basically, from our reports that's the gist of it."
[Representative #48903] - "I would like to propose a Motion to the vote of this assembly."
[High Chancellor] - "What shall it be ?"
[Representative #48903] - "Holy War."
[High Chancellor] - "You measure what it means ?"
[Representative #48903] - "Yes, but I think almost everyone here will agree that the result of inaction would have a far greater price. It would go against the Doxa itself to sit here and do nothing while all the Grounders get exterminated. Furthermore, I doubt we would remain untouched by the spread of this menace. The Doxa is quite clear on what stance should be ours in this situation."
[High Chancellor] - "I see. Let us decide."
[half an hour pass as messages travel through the sub-ether all around the galaxy, each representative casting its vote]
[High Chancellor] - "The votes have been cast, and the verdict shall be announced. With 254897 yay, 4560 abstention and 29 nay, the result is quite clear. An all-inclusive referendum for Holy War will thus be held by the end of the week. May the Prophet guide us toward the Light."

Spoiler

Holy War in this case mean "Exterminatus".

[Skywalker_T-65]

Skywalker is totally right; there is no one winner in an SDNW game. Trying to be the winner is a very bad idea and fills the game with stupidity and lameness.

Something a bit more imaginative than 'replicators' might be good in the long run.

Hm. Name for the AI. Does it really have a god complex? Does it, personally, feel anything as human-ish as a messiah complex? Maybe it would just give itself an unpretentious name that nonetheless implies that it thinks it's at the center of the universe. Something like... [looks around, files the "Total Annihilation" logo off] "the Core."

Like I said above, I only even called them Replicators since as a SG fan that came to mind. I wouldn't suggest it as an actual nation name.

Also Rabid...nice post there. Probably a similar reaction from Arcadia, assuming one of our ships was actually out exploring. Were not the explorer type, except for a few fringe types (who will be the main focus in my story posts)

[Panzersharkcat]

Yeah, and if things come to Exterminatus against the Replicator guys, I'd actually have a justified use for the "USS Penis Envy." Oh, the fun complications that would result from people trying to decommission the thing now being forced to use it.

[cadbrowser]

Skywalker is totally right; there is no one winner in an SDNW game. Trying to be the winner is a very bad idea and fills the game with stupidity and lameness.

That's cool (completely agree on the lameness of it as well)...wasn't sure...doesn't bother my game play style either way. But good to know nonetheless.

Snip

Something a bit more imaginative than 'replicators' might be good in the long run.

Hm. Name for the AI. Does it really have a god complex? Does it, personally, feel anything as human-ish as a messiah complex? Maybe it would just give itself an unpretentious name that nonetheless implies that it thinks it's at the center of the universe. Something like... [looks around, files the "Total Annihilation" logo off] "the Core."

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant...the implication of a god complex as viewed from an outside "humanistic" sort of view by other aliens (per se) without the actual feeling of having a messiah complex.

Interesting idea. Really, there's much potential for RP there.

Just one thing you have to be prepared for, though :

Thank you!

I understand what you are saying; I was hoping for plot/story arc that the mod would allow the world I am describing to have "evolved" alongside these others in obscurity somewhat. If it's not possible, I can come up with something else. Just thought it would be fun. *shrugs*

Yeah, and if things come to Exterminatus against the Replicator guys, I'd actually have a justified use for the "USS Penis Envy."

Pardon my ignorance but I don't know what this means. Can you explain?

[Skywalker_T-65]

That is what Panzer calls his superweapon/supership. In other words, if it came to a war to destroy your Replicator guys, he would pull it out of mothballs. And its entirely possible to have your nation be around, while not being attacked. Some nations wouldn't have a problem (I have a sinking suspicion that the Gray's wouldn't care as long as you kept humans in check). Really depends on where you end up on the map.