StarDestroyer.Net BBS

It's one thing to want "realistic options" (although one has to wonder why they always seem to have to involve WMD and insane leaders), it's quite another to start off with an entire biochemical arsenal. Could we at least agree that no-one starts the game with WMD and anyone that wants them has to start from scratch on day one? So, no NBC weaponry at the start of the game?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hey, Shep! Can we have a Uranium for Food program? Like, I give your deprived nation food in exchange for arms and stuff?

Food.....for thousands of tons of thickened soman. ^_______^

SiegeTank wrote:Could we at least agree that no-one starts the game with WMD and anyone that wants them has to start from scratch on day one? So, no NBC weaponry at the start of the game?

Yes yes okay.

This time around however. I shall be placing considerable effort on defensive stuff. I'll be spending billions on All-Weather heavy interceptors etc.



Shepistani Central Air Defense Control (CADC) node, early version. Later versions will be more hardened against airblast, etc.

I'm not too keen on an "apocalypse redux" scenario too.

Havig grealistic options is one thing, but let's remember-- a "civilian research plane" in military colors overflew another nation on an unannounced "test flight" and was shot down.

And even though the pilots survived, the AA site was nuked, knowing full well a village was in the effect radius.

That is not "a full range of options" that is 100% "lookin' for a fight".

"Today, the Royal Shepistani Airforce attacked the capital city of Pezookia in a thousand plane raid. 125 tons of high explosives, 150 tons of incendiaries, and 225 tons of various chemical weapons were dropped. Casualties estimated in the tens of thousands..."

It's one of the reasons Hitler got so far, the "Bomber Will Always Get Through" advocates plus the apocalyptic predictions of what the effect of the first day of an air war with chemical weapons deterred people from attacking him.

But Hitler didn't use them in the end did he? Not even against the Soviet Union. The difference is I think you would go for the weapons with the maximum effect unlike powers in real life, which have often tried to limit what weapons are used in war. Plus in Hitler's case, he may not have wanted to be hit with chemical weapons himself. Would you want to open that can of worms? Would you want to deal with that in addition to every other damn thing?

Or I could have built my facilities like Iran--buried so far and deep that you need more than 4,000+ lb bunker busters to destroy them....concrete and dirt are cheap after all...
Or I could have built my facilities like Iran--buried so far and deep that you need more than 4,000+ lb bunker busters to destroy them....concrete and dirt are cheap after all...

Well, good luck keeping your economy going with your infrastructure completely wrecked and you have no way to move goods around your country. If we can't destroy the factories themselves, we could surely wreck every other thing of value in your country. Plus how would you intend to mount offensive operations with underground factories once your airfields and armored divisions have been pulverized?

Well anyways just what are you looking to get from this game Shep? What does a game with realistic options mean to you anyway? So far it seems to mean a large stockpile of weapons to kill civilians with and a belligerent foreign policy (given the hints you've dropped about your nation.)

I think a game centered on politics, diplomacy, brinksmanship, cloak-and-dagger escapades, some crime and business syndicates, the occassional brushfire war, and maybe a conventional conflict of medium scale every so often is what the majority of us are interested in.

Major war on a global fallout scale with mass casualties isn't high on anyone's "to-do list".

To be honest I don't mind Shep's plans so much as long as they remain part of the dynamic he and Lonestar have going -- as long as this India/Pakistan style belligerence stays at the regional level, I'm fine with the threat of Scud missiles, etc.

What this NBC program IMO should not become however is a means to hold the entire world ransom. In the bitter end SDNWorld is still a game people play for fun, and being under permanent threat of a messy biochem-induced end probably isn't what a lot of people consider fun. So, sure, introduce "realistic options", but at least be somewhat considerate of what other people would like to see happen in the game.

EDIT: Seems Coyote beat me to the punch...

I don't know what other people think, but I'd sure like to be able to play the game without a WMD sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head.

I don't mind weapons of mass destruction per se, I just want people to act like real world nations would when war means utter devastation for one's nation. This means in a modern day scenario large scale conventional war will be extremely uncommon, while proxy wars and unconventional conflict will be the norm. Revolutions in random nations may not seem as glamorous as thermonuclear war, but such conflicts have surely killed a hell of a lot of people and have plenty to offer players of all temperaments.

Raj Ahten wrote:I don't mind weapons of mass destruction per se, I just want people to act like real world nations would when war means utter devastation for one's nation.

Well, then that also means that when dealing with OTHER nuclear armed peoples people must realize that you don’t do whatever the hell you want short of war. For example openly touting blockades as means to starve the other state into submission is not a wise course of action. People utterly failed to comprehend this the last time around. Anyway I don’t intend to have Japanistan bent on global nuclear domination, it has too many people for that to make sense but a very health deterrent force will be required.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Raj Ahten wrote:I don't mind weapons of mass destruction per se, I just want people to act like real world nations would when war means utter devastation for one's nation.

Well, then that also means that when dealing with OTHER nuclear armed peoples people must realize that you don’t do whatever the hell you want short of war. For example openly touting blockades as means to starve the other state into submission is not a wise course of action. People utterly failed to comprehend this the last time around. Anyway I don’t intend to have Japanistan bent on global nuclear domination, it has too many people for that to make sense but a very health deterrent force will be required.

Your point on blockades is a valid one. I eventually realized Sadaamistan had policies that made sense given their mindset, and an understanding likely could have been reached with them if not for the "execution" of a world leader on neutral ground. After that, a large war seemed inevitable. Shep not really being dead just accelerated the process.

Remember, I bring Peace, I am neutral, I have lots of gimmics, cars, and other things, plus were building more support for all of this...

we come in peace, we shall bring peace to all of our neighbors.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Raj Ahten wrote:I don't mind weapons of mass destruction per se, I just want people to act like real world nations would when war means utter devastation for one's nation.

Well, then that also means that when dealing with OTHER nuclear armed peoples people must realize that you don’t do whatever the hell you want short of war. For example openly touting blockades as means to starve the other state into submission is not a wise course of action. People utterly failed to comprehend this the last time around. Anyway I don’t intend to have Japanistan bent on global nuclear domination, it has too many people for that to make sense but a very health deterrent force will be required.

I think at the basic level, everyone must learn to play the game rationally. Deliberately destroying oneself, is a "no no".

And no, I want to play this game minus the nuclear damocles. Otherwise, there is really no point in playing a game that leads to everyone dead, for no damn good reason.

And Shep, the MESS still hasn't even worked out a plan to attack you, much less even creating a name for the operation, in the last game.

Coiler wrote:I don't know what other people think, but I'd sure like to be able to play the game without a WMD sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head.

That's the single most sanest thing you have said so far.

I think you guys are going overboard, frankly. So long as we keep the India/Pakistan dynamic going we should be good.

I really want my True Super Best Friend PeZook back in the game.

So I won't look like a mathemathological illiterate

Lonestar wrote:I think you guys are going overboard, frankly. So long as we keep the India/Pakistan dynamic going we should be good.

Oh, I'm willing to give it a shot.

Coyote wrote:

Lonestar wrote:I think you guys are going overboard, frankly. So long as we keep the India/Pakistan dynamic going we should be good.

Oh, I'm willing to give it a shot.

So long as Shep doesn't acquire too large a strategic bomber fleet.

The thing is, since Shep organizes his defenses around, basically, the "atomic division" type mentality, where pretty much anything automatically becomes a nuclear response, the result will be that almost nobody will trade with or interact with him at all, simply because they don't know what tiniest of provocations will bring an attack.

So in order to get any interaction of of the game at all, and to be involved, he kinda has no choice but to go out and poke & prod folks in different ways so that something happens and he has the opportunity to nuke someone.

Coyote wrote:The thing is, since Shep organizes his defenses around, basically, the "atomic division" type mentality, where pretty much anything automatically becomes a nuclear response, the result will be that almost nobody will trade with or interact with him at all, simply because they don't know what tiniest of provocations will bring an attack.

So in order to get any interaction of of the game at all, and to be involved, he kinda has no choice but to go out and poke & prod folks in different ways so that something happens and he has the opportunity to nuke someone.

Yes, everything he has is a nuke, like in the last game. One wonders how much of an economy does he have left after gutting everything just to squeeze out the uranium to build his nukes. He probably has slave labour.

If Shep could get off his TBO kick, and rely on more traditional forms of bloodshed, this could still work.

Setzer wrote:If Shep could get off his TBO kick, and rely on more traditional forms of bloodshed, this could still work.

His TBO kick? You think this is a phase? You don't know Sheppard all of his military plans revolve around Peace through Superior(Nuclear) firepower.

Mr Bean wrote:

Setzer wrote:If Shep could get off his TBO kick, and rely on more traditional forms of bloodshed, this could still work.

His TBO kick? You think this is a phase? You don't know Sheppard all of his military plans revolve around Peace through Superior(Nuclear) firepower.

Well, he missed out all then nuke fun, so forgive him for his ... naivety.

My ship was out to sea at the time, with our bandwidth shot to hell for the average crew member. When even the low bandwidth version of the site takes ages to load, it's hard to follow a rapidly changing situation.

Another idea I had: When Stuart finishes Armageddon, what if SDnetworld gets its own version of "The Message"?

In the meantime, I've done some writing up on the law and order of my bizarrely chaotic metropolis:

MILITARY AND POLICE FORCES OF SAN DORADO

Metrocops are street cops. Colloquial shorthand is 'Met'. They wear light tactical body armor and carry handguns as well as submachineguns.

PRISEC is private security. There are dozens of PRISEC corporations active in San Dorado, ranging from highly skilled to highly corrupt. Licensed PRISEC has the same authority as the Met.

Armed Interdiction Police have a dual function of riot police and specialized units. They are split into Bronze TAC (armored riot police on motorbikes) which handles riots, SWAT-duties and ‘light’ civil unrest, and Silver TAC which comes with helicopters, APCs and military weaponry.

Citidef is basically the San Dorado version of the National Guard, reserves recruited from the residents supposedly to assist both the AIP and the SADF in times of citywide emergency. They have a reputation for being overeager trigger-happy gung-ho nitwits, but some units are fairly skilled.

San Dorado Armed Forces is the military, which comes with MBTs, AIFVs, attack helos and all the other military goodness you’d expect of a decent army.


SAN DORADO URBAN UNREST ALERT LEVELS

Level 1: Urban Bliss
The entire metropolis is in a state of peaceful harmony. This never happens.

Level 2: Minor Disturbance
Bank robberies, shoot-outs, hooliganism, protest marches, car chases, sit-ins, etc. At any given time there is at least one of these going on in San Dorado. They are handled by the Met and/or PRISEC.

Level 3: Riot
Violent protests, minor sabotage and acts of terror, gang wars, major obstructions of traffic, illegal parades. At least one of these happens per day. If several riots blur together they can spark a Block War. Riots are handled by Bronze TAC, AIP.

Level 4: Block War
When two or more riots merge they can (and do) create a state of anarchy that spreads across an entire city block. Because nearly ever citizen of San Dorado is armed, this is far more serious than it might look, and Block Wars are often characterized by extreme levels of violence. They are resolved by bringing in Silver TAC, AIP. Block Wars occur several times a year.

Level 5: Borough Mania
Like riots can coalesce into a block war, block wars can spark what is called borough mania, wherein an entire township falls prey to urban chaos. A state of Borough Mania allows the Major to declare Martial Law, and is usually settled by mobilizing Citidef to assiset Silver TAC. Borough Mania happens roughly once every two years.

Level 6: Citycide
Major acts of terrorism, rampant multi-borough unrest, city-wide insurrections, and other direct threats to the entire city. Alert Level 6 qualifies as a national emergency, which means that the matter is settled by the SDAF with the aid of Citidef.

Level 7: Armageddon
Foreign invasion or other threats of imminent annihilation warrant rising the alert level to 7. This is a state of full scale war, and allows the SDAF to unleash 'whatever means neccesary' upon the city in order to save it (or rather, the majority of it) from whatever is threatening San Dorado. Full scale mobilization/conscription will occur.

Hmmm.... So.... hypothetically speaking, could an invader secretly hire PRISEC companies to raise hell behind the lines?