Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[RogueIce]

What was even more idiotic was the fact the chips were supposedly a secret. Think about this for a minute. You have an army, made up from clones sent to bleakest and most dangerous missions, being wounded in dozens of ways, being put into hands of tens of thousands of field medics, medical droids and surgeons... And not one of them noticed something wrong on scanners? What?

A conspiracy that can be blown by a single stray bullet to the head is beyond idiotic, especially seeing you have a weak link on the other side, in Kamino. Republic didn't sent anyone to supervise cloning? Didn't examine processes at all, for example to make them more efficient? Or simply to look this awfully convenient gifted horse in the mouth? No Kaminoan asked why army made by Jedi for Jedi has control chips dedicated to killing said Jedi?

This is not only stupid no matter what way you look at it, but also immensely cheapens the clones...

IIRC when we saw a Clone Trooper medical station, it was staffed by Kaminoans anyway. And at the very least, their leadership was in on the plot. And the Order 66 Arc demonstrated they had a readily available explanation, one which the Jedi clearly believed: those chips were necessary for the whole 'conditioned to follow orders thing' - which was most certainly true...from a certain point of view.

So basically only the Kamino leadership needed to know these were Kill Jedi Chips; everyone else - which presumably included the rank-and-file Kaminoans in med stations, medical droids and so on - needed only to believe they were the Obey Orders Chips. Which for all we know is pretty standard in cloning so nobody questioned it.

Of course that raises a host of ethical questions and why the Jedi seemed to be cool with it, but well those were already there with the 'slave army' bit so...

[FaxModem1]

The Jedi Council's reaction, at least from the Clone Wars, was 'Well, if we don't use them, we'll get out butts kicked by the millions of separatist droids and ships, so we better save this for when we don't have a galactic scale war on our hands."

[Sea Skimmer]

The Jedi Council's reaction, at least from the Clone Wars, was 'Well, if we don't use them, we'll get out butts kicked by the millions of separatist droids and ships, so we better save this for when we don't have a galactic scale war on our hands."

The reaction was in fact one of fear that the senate would loose faith in the Jedi. So they decide to DO NOTHING! Even though you could in fact take the chips out without killing the clones, meaning they could have experimented at the very least.

This all would have been slightly more reasonable had they not also learned this around the same time they learned that a freaking Sith Lord made the army! And that you know, a jedi was dead! If they'd merely found a crazy clone with a chip, that isn't such a glaring problem. I really hated all of that. It can't be reconciled with any kind of rational thought process.

Up until those last horrible episodes one could kinda almost try to forgive the Jedi Council for being so amazingly stupid, trusting in the force even though they knew it was clouded, but that just broke everything for me. I know sure the Jedi, arrogant they have grown ect... but this just went into the insult to intelligence frame of reference. And while perhaps I'm unjustified, somehow it feels like it was a big fuck you from George Lucas to all the fan's he obviously came to loath, along with finally making it explicit that midichlorians = the force, and not merely an indication of force powers. But then perhaps stuff like that is why he ended everything when he did, only to have part of season six made anyway. But its hard to know the true timing on everything and its not worth it to me to try to investigate that further. The Clone Wars was always limited by its ending being so dramatically predetermined, but none of this stuff had to be present.

I'm not expecting stellar groundbreaking writing or anything from The Force Awakens meanwhile, or frankly any Disney Star Wars movies but I do hope they can at least avoid just blatantly stupid stuff with how people make decisions.

[The Romulan Republic]

You know, it really pisses me off how some fans (you are not the first one I've seen do this) take a writing decision they don't like and treat it as a personal attack on them/fans by the creator, as if they generally spend their time coming up with ways to spite the fans. I mean its possible, but it doesn't seem like something that would happen a lot. Frankly it comes off as paranoid and creepy.

Edit: That the Jedi bungled things (and were corrupt), however, I will not deny.

[Sea Skimmer]

Or maybe you're just blind to the way Lucas blatantly trolled people. And he certainly isn't the first creator to do that either, but that changes nothing and nothing is wrong with fucking point it out. You know, I really never bothered to say such things before he sold it off either or think about it, and I never watched the Clone Wars until recently, but really that was the vindication. I'm glad though because if that was going to be the level of thinking involved in any future movies, no thanks. Disney threw his plans out completely too.

[Adam Reynolds]

Or maybe you're just blind to the way Lucas blatantly trolled people. And he certainly isn't the first creator to do that either, but that changes nothing and nothing is wrong with fucking point it out. You know, I really never bothered to say such things before he sold it off either or think about it, and I never watched the Clone Wars until recently, but really that was the vindication. I'm glad though because if that was going to be the level of thinking involved in any future movies, no thanks. Disney threw his plans out completely too.

The thing that bothered me about Clone Wars is that it didn't seem to have a purpose. While the pre-ROTS EU worked as it served to tie together the films and keep things going, why revisit the era after all of the films are finished?

The second fundamental problem is that because we know the dark ending, all of the heroism from the series is irrelevant. When you are writing a tragedy it doesn't do to have it continue forever. I agree with Disney that the OT and beyond is a better era in that it will have a more positive ending, at least eventually.

And in terms of the execution the series doesn't seem to have a significant target audience. It is too childish for adults or teenagers and too violent and dark for extremely young children. Many episodes are actually far darker than TPM or AOTC and thus poorly suited for the apparent target audience.

[Galvatron]

And while perhaps I'm unjustified, somehow it feels like it was a big fuck you from George Lucas to all the fan's he obviously came to loath, along with finally making it explicit that midichlorians = the force, and not merely an indication of force powers.

When did this happen? I don't recall such a thing ever having been stated outright.

[Adam Reynolds]

And while perhaps I'm unjustified, somehow it feels like it was a big fuck you from George Lucas to all the fan's he obviously came to loath, along with finally making it explicit that midichlorians = the force, and not merely an indication of force powers.

When did this happen? I don't recall such a thing ever having been stated outright.

It was in the acid trip* Yoda episodes in Season 6 in which he discovered how to become one with the Force and survive in his spirit form after death. For some reason this happened before ROTS when he appeared surprised to hear Qui-Gon's voice. One of the Force beings Yoda encountered refereed to midichlorians as "what your science calls midichlorians" and that it was "the link between the Unifying and Living Force."

* I wish I were joking. Whoever wrote those episodes must have been on something at the time.

[Sea Skimmer]

The thing that bothered me about Clone Wars is that it didn't seem to have a purpose. While the pre-ROTS EU worked as it served to tie together the films and keep things going, why revisit the era after all of the films are finished?

I think it was a carrier for ideas, rather then an idea in and of itself. I think Lucas had a strong desire to just apply Star Wars to a lot of classic gags and plotlines, and build up the universe in general while he considered if he really had any other big great ideas; keeping in mind his wobbling back and forth claims on if he 'planned' nine movies or not, or even if he ever really planned six when he started calling ANH episode four. The Clone Wars is like an old adventure serial (and I am aware much said about them is imaginary, but they existed) in more then a few ways, and some of that went into Episode III too. But this meant everything was scatter shot.

I believe his last public statement before Disney bought him out was that he was 'finished' as far as movies went but then oh it turns out no, he did have at least basic scripts for three more. I have nothing against with him changing his mind either, but I never liked that he insisted he'd never said things he did, such as the original nine movies comments. Star Wars was and is only so successful because it had such a dedicated fan base, and he certainly knew it, he did plenty to support it too, so this is one of the reasons why when I see things that look like trolling, like him going around in a Hand Shot First shirt, I really see no reason to assume it is anything but. I mean its funny too, but trolling can be funny. Everyone does it on some level, its part of human nature. Still its not exactly a nice thing to expect people not to remember what you said. And then its also not very nice to keep editing what you've already done in ways you know annoy people. Why should people respect the opinions of the creator if the creator doesn't really like his own work either? It seems like a fair question.

The second fundamental problem is that because we know the dark ending, all of the heroism from the series is irrelevant.

Yeah, though at least it did in the end redeem Anakin as a character and make his fall less of pure whining. The movie Anakin was basically intolerable at times, which was more of a directing problem then one of story proper. On the other hand the Jedi got dumber by the second, and not in a 'deceived by the dark side' kind of way nearly as much as just an IQ of 60 is engaged kind of way. The final Ahsoka arc actually accomplished something on this, but it involved pretty damn absurd levels of dumb in the process. Some of that, like getting to a trial so quickly I'm perfectly willing to dismiss simply because of time constraints, but frankly if Episode III didn't already exist I think I'm not alone in thinking that should have ended with Anakin leaving the order too but not trying to follow Ahsoka, and then falling to the dark side after he was isolated.

And in terms of the execution the series doesn't seem to have a significant target audience. It is too childish for adults or teenagers and too violent and dark for extremely young children. Many episodes are actually far darker than TPM or AOTC and thus poorly suited for the apparent target audience.

Well Dave Filoni more or less said they made decisions to 'age it up' as it went along, which seems to have actually gone fairly well to me. But it certainly hurt overall. I kinda felt like the earliest and most of the later episodes were best, with the early middle the worst. I also noticed Padme was largely written out of later seasons after her character was turned into another joke after so many bad episodes.

Star Wars Rebels is a bit more mature then the worst of TCW, and not as dark as its darkest bits, but at least its damn consistent at being what it wants to be. None of the episodes made me want to roll my eyes, even if they were not what 'I' would do or want. Since its primary production staff is largely the same as TCW I can only assume that is the difference of Lucas vs Disney suits at work.

[RogueIce]

Star Wars Rebels is a bit more mature then the worst of TCW, and not as dark as its darkest bits, but at least its damn consistent at being what it wants to be. None of the episodes made me want to roll my eyes, even if they were not what 'I' would do or want. Since its primary production staff is largely the same as TCW I can only assume that is the difference of Lucas vs Disney suits at work.

I would agree. Starting with the anachronistic order, and then the four-episode mini-arc structure, well...

It was a gift and a curse, to steal a phrase. On the one hand, all that jumping around and lack of focus on any particular main characters (there were plenty of episodes where Obi-wan, Anakin and Ahsoka never showed up) was good in that we got to see a lot of the war, had a lot of different stories to explore, etc. Plus, it meant that the good guys could lose once in a while, like actually lose, so the Separatists could maintain a decent threat level.

OTOH, it meant these were all, essentially, self-contained stories. I know I am not the only one who desperately wanted to see some follow-up and consequences between Rex, Cody, Anakin and Obi-wan after the Darkness on Umbara arc. But we never got that. Rebels, thanks to focusing on the crew of the Ghost does give us that. But then it also leads to plot shields and these non-Jedi dancing in between blaster bolts.

I think Rebels will probably come out to be the stronger show in the end, and I say this as a devoted fan of TCW. It's definitely shaping up that way, but then it did have a bit of a slow start. We'll have to see if they can maintain the momentum they built and keep it going. TCW certainly got pretty good toward the back half of its first season, but they still had some inconsistency. It's too early to tell if Rebels can keep from stumbling as well.

[The Romulan Republic]

Looks like a certain admiral may be appearing in The Force Awakens, along with one Nien Nunb:

http://www.ibtimes.com/star-wars-7-leak ... gy-1976175#

Fans of the original “Star Wars” trilogy are about to get another surprise in director J.J. Abrams' upcoming seventh installment to the franchise, “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Newly leaked images indicate that two minor characters from the original movies will make their way back to the silver screen, and this is not a trap.

According to leaked alleged promotional images from the site Episode VII News, the new movie will feature the return of two alien allies to the rebel alliance who originally appeared in the first three “Star Wars” films, Episodes IV, V and VI. The first is an image of Admiral Ackbar (R), an alien who became famous on the Internet in recent years for his iconic reading of the line “It’s a trap!”


The second returning character is one whose name isn’t necessarily recognizable to any but the most die-hard “Star Wars” fans. Nien Nunb (L), the jowled alien who co-piloted the Millennium Falcon when Lando Calrissian (Billy Dee Williams) flew it during the climactic battle of Endor in “Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi.”

As CinemaBlend pointed out, it’s difficult to tell if the watermarked images are characters in costume or puppets. Either way, the photos seem to show these two characters having aged since their respective last appearances. This has led other sites such as MakingStarWars -- which has been a reputable source of leaked plot details from the film’s production in the past -- to agree that the pictures probably are real and that fans will see Admiral Ackbar and Nien Nunb return in “The Force Awakens.”

Admittedly, these two characters don’t merit the same level of excitement as original trilogy cast members Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill reprising their roles as Han Solo, Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker. However, it’s still exciting for true fans of “Star Wars” to see some old characters from the original coming back for the 2015 update.

What do you think of the Admiral Ackbar and Nien Nunb photos above? Comment below or tweet your thoughts to @TylerMcCarthy.

[Dartzap]

Spoiler

There was a behind the scenes reel shown at Comicon, and quite frankly, I had a slight tear in my eye watching it. It's goddam beautiful . The ground battles already look good!

[Ace Pace]

There was a behind the scenes reel shown at Comicon, and quite frankly, I had a slight tear in my eye watching it. It's goddam beautiful . The ground battles already look good!

I'm really enjoying their marketing, giving us "feel" trailers and not spamming plot points. Though I have to say it is possible to overdo the we're doing this with real models, for example using an actual film camera seems somewhat stupid, even as a marketing trick.

[Borgholio]

Though I have to say it is possible to overdo the we're doing this with real models, for example using an actual film camera seems somewhat stupid, even as a marketing trick.

When it was first revealed that they were going to use a large number of practical effects, I did the happy dance in my seat. Although it may not be entirely accurate, there is the perception by many people I know (myself included), that too much CGI was used in past movies. There are several scenes where a digital body was used with the actors face pasted on it, for example, and those tended to stand out like a sore thumb. Having a real, physical person in front of a film (or even a digital) camera just adds that extra touch of realism that you don't get even with the best CGI. The thing about going back to real models and using film is the filmmaker saying, "Yeah we hear your complaints, and we agree that it didn't look as good as it could have. We're going to do it right this time."

So while it might be partly considered a marketing gimmick...IMO it's for a good reason.

[RogueIce]

I liked the look. I also fell in love with that beautiful music from the first minute or so. Which, thankfully, I was able to find ("The Force Epiphany"), if you want to take a listen.

[Gandalf]

I find myself in the minority, in that I don't find that trailer particularly appealing. It's like they're pleading to the audience; "We swear it's people you know with effects you remember!"

I get that nostalgia seems to be the key driver in their marketing, but this just does nothing for me.

[The Romulan Republic]

I worry that they'll focus so much on nostalgia that we'll end up with a franchise that seldom dares to allow change. Although the presence of a black stormtrooper and the larger number of prominent female cast members would suggest otherwise. So I'll withhold judgement for now.

[Elfdart]

I find myself in the minority, in that I don't find that trailer particularly appealing. It's like they're pleading to the audience; "We swear it's people you know with effects you remember!"

I get that nostalgia seems to be the key driver in their marketing, but this just does nothing for me.

It reminds me of what happens when a band you like stops putting out new or original material and settles for being an oldies act.

[Nephtys]

That seems like an over-reaction. What I got from the little behind the scenes is 'Really, we love Ep 4-6 and are going to capture that feeling. No giant CGI shreks dancing around ruining your day with bullshit'. I considered it a more tactful way of going 'We aren't going to Jar Jar this up'.

[Gandalf]

It reminds me of what happens when a band you like stops putting out new or original material and settles for being an oldies act.

It's all a bit Spinal Tap.

[Pelranius]

Some interesting tidbits from Making Star Wars about the state of the GFFA post Endor
Spoiler

oruscant was in chaos, Grand Vizier Mas Amedda attempted to keep the Empire together by any means necessary.
The Imperial chain of command was is in disarray; no one knew exactly which superior officer they were supposed to follow or what the consequences for doing so might be.
Several powerful people tried to declare themselves Emperor; the rank and file didn’t really care much for those declarations any longer.
Pretenders to the throne used their forces to fight one another and chaos ensued.
The Anoat sector was cut off completely.
The Rebel Alliance secured several systems and set up bases there in relative peace with minor resistance.
The Rebel Alliance proclaimed itself the New Republic by this time.
The New Republic was established in the Hosnian System.
One year after The Battle of Endor the galaxy was still embroiled in all-out war, however.
Emperor Palpatine was praised as a martyr by many and young and untrained Imperial Cadets were sent to the front lines in his name.
Many battles for Naboo were fought in the year after Palpatine’s death.
The capital of Naboo, Theed, was well protected and stable.
Imperial sympathizers tried rallying at Naboo because it was Palpatine’s homeworld. The planet was still relatively wealthy and healthy.
The Empire repeatedly tried to invade Naboo, but every attempt was thwarted.
The New Republic celebrated its victory in liberating Naboo by the third battle.
Sondiv Sella served the New Republic beside Mon Mothma and Leia Organa.
The New Republic had a provisional galactic senate with elected representatives established.
Imperial laws were rewritten by the New Republic to be more benevolent and just.
Democracy was returning.
Worlds polluted by Imperial strip mining were being rebuilt; there were also slavery reparations.
One year out, Jakku was seen as a worthless world.
There was strategic value in Jakku for one power-hungry Moff who wanted to win back the sector.
General Carlist Rieekan, a leader of the New Republic, sent a team out to capture a Star Destroyer christened Inflictor, over Jakku.
The Battle of Jakku took place in the stars, in the sky, and on land.
The Battle of Jakku was the largest battle since the Battle of Endor.
The New Republic gained an advantage through better tactics, despite the Empire outnumbering them vastly.
The Captain of The Inflictor decided to follow protocol and scuttle the ship rather than surrender it.
The ship then crashed to the surface of Jakku.
One month after the Battle of Jakku there were no longer any large-scale battles by the Empire and they vanished into a nebula.
Having gathered their forces for a counterattack and established a new chain of command, Imperial vessels within Core and Inner Rim areas stayed within borders defined by a treaty, waiting to erupt at any moment.

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star- ... -conflict/

So Spoiler

perhaps those Imperials at the Battle of Jakku and those cadets who went into the Nebula became the First Order?

[The Romulan Republic]

A lot of that is flat-out crap.
Spoiler

I dislike the idea of a long war with the Empire after Return of the Jedi. It contradicts the optimistic tone of the Original Trilogy's ending and its anti-climactic. But at least they've cut it down to a year instead of the interminable war it was in past times.

And the scale is so fucking small at times. The Battle of Jakku was focussed on a single Star Destroyer and was the biggest since Endor? Jesus Christ. I hope this isn't true.

But I do like the idea of the Empire's supporters seeing Naboo as significant because Palpatine was from their and it being a major battle zone.

Also, I wonder why they specifically mention the Anoat sector. Is it going to have some significance in the new films?

[Adam Reynolds]

The trailer shows an SSD upside down and embedded in the surface of Jakku. I presume that is what is being referred to. That would elevwte the scale quite nicely.

[The Romulan Republic]

True. Especially if it had a big fleet of escorts.

[Mange]

Spoiler

And the scale is so fucking small at times. The Battle of Jakku was focussed on a single Star Destroyer and was the biggest since Endor? Jesus Christ. I hope this isn't true.

That's an assumption by the site's author. I think it's really the Executor-class ship. (On a side-note, Star Dreadnought was recanonized in Ultimate Star Wars.)

Spoiler

Also, I wonder why they specifically mention the Anoat sector. Is it going to have some significance in the new films?

Spoiler

The Anoat sector uprising comes from the upcoming mobile game Star Wars: Uprising. The list seems to be compiled from a number of sources from the Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens material.