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Jesus, what's that?

"Oh, somebody shot down our recon airplane. I mean, the crew survived, but we're going to kill tends of thousands of people in retaliation!!!"

And no, we're not going to even try to find out if it wasn't an operator's mistake.

If people say this was a reasonable response, then surely the FUN would be within their rights to use VX nerve gas on UAR cities after anybody died from that radioactive cloud, right?

If people say this was a reasonable response, then surely the FUN would be within their rights to use VX nerve gas on UAR cities after anybody died from that radioactive cloud, right?

Yeah, we should've just done that without warning, especially after they shot a huge nuclear hulk of a missile into our territory and then contaminated other nations.

In Shep-world, that's "adequate response".

Stas Bush wrote:Who RPs the Diocese? I think we are in for a war. Even if it doesn't get any larger ,the Diocese will declare war on Shep, that's unavoiable.

Technically no one does. I'm merely shoving crap around there. Yeah all that equipment got atomised, along with millions of people.

And yeah by the way, Alexandria is darn close to the seaport. I can imagine the fall out hitting Alexandria as well.

Holy fucking crap.

Yeah, I just realized thatt with the overpopulated slums, probably a few million will shortly die in the Diocese. Considering that the bomb is ~ few times more powerful than Fat Man...

That makes Shep a mega-killer in mere seconds.

I'm crashing, please avoid a nuclear holocaust while I am asleep/enjoying the July 4th festivities.

Sleep well.

Stas Bush wrote:Holy fucking crap.

Yeah, I just realized thatt with the overpopulated slums, probably a few million will shortly die in the Diocese. Considering that the bomb is ~ few times more powerful than Fat Man...

That makes Shep a mega-killer in mere seconds.

Yeah, along with poisoned farmland, poisoned this poisoned that.

And yeah, Magalia is within fucking spitting distance of Alexandria. You could cross the border with ease what with the border never finalised, and porous as hell.

Oh, wow. Now the shit's really starting to hit the fan now.

The best part of it all? I'm sandwiched right in between Shepnukistan and the Red Technocracy. Yeah, Lelouch is really going to appreciate the clouds of fallout that are going to be drifting his way soon.

Yup. But if you're going to go to war, do it on your own terms. Be prepared. Now is probably not the time to start a global thermonuclear war. I wouldn't be surprised if Alexandria kicked the IRT out after this. Sure, they've been helpful, but now there's a mushroom cloud dropping fallout over his land.

I'm not really inclined to go to war.

If however war happens, I will only use existing nuclear arsenals at my disposal, but cobalt-encased, permanently irradiating Shepnukistan and Saddamistan to deny those nations a right to life, industry, economy, and so on.

If it's not clear, I would only need to explode slightly more than 2 tons of cobalt to ensure Saddamistan and Shepnukistan are both a dreadful history forever. Probably around a ton over each, encased in 100-kg dispersal casings over 10 warheads, and special 500 kg packs for their respective capitals.

This is well within the capabilities of my nuclear arsenal, discounting the huge amounts of VX I am going to send at his territory.

There. Shepnukistan didn't quite get enough dissent for the amount of grief nuclear weapons caused its own citizenry (with 2 million dead, practically anybody knows several people who died horribly), so now it has plenty.

He's gone nuts. I say we wipe him out.

Stas Bush wrote:He's gone nuts. I say we wipe him out.

Jihadi? Wow, that's the most absurd excuse ever. It's like arresting Jews for neo-nazism

1) Shepnukistani citizen's property wasn't seized. Shepnukistani companies were forced to close down and had their production assets seized because of laws preventing capital flight. Private citizens were allowed to move with anything they owned.

2) Why intern them? No shepnukistani was actually arrested

EDIT: Jesus, why have I been making so many typos lately?

PeZook wrote:Jihadi? Wow, that's the most absurd excuse ever.

THe Correct Term is Anarcho-Jihadi-Saboteur-Terrorist.

1) Shepnukistani citizen's property wasn't seized. Shepnukistani companies were forced to close down and had their production assets seized because of laws preventing capital flight. Private citizens were allowed to move with anything they owned.

And what about those who owned their own companies? Not every company is a huge multinational faceless corp...

2) Why intern them? No shepnukistani was actually arrested

Because I'm an asshole.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Stas Bush wrote:Holy fucking crap.

Yeah, I just realized thatt with the overpopulated slums, probably a few million will shortly die in the Diocese. Considering that the bomb is ~ few times more powerful than Fat Man...

That makes Shep a mega-killer in mere seconds.

Yeah, along with poisoned farmland, poisoned this poisoned that.

And yeah, Magalia is within fucking spitting distance of Alexandria. You could cross the border with ease what with the border never finalised, and porous as hell.

Actually contaminated milk, for month or two would be the only serious concern of such a limited amount of fallout, only a very little bit of pulverized reactor material would actually become airborne in the first place, even less is going to make it across the open ocean.. The threat is much less then even that of the Windscale fire, let alone Chernobyl. Call it a weapon of mass hysteria inducement, it sure isn’t a WMD nor particularly intentional, I just couldn’t have you all getting lovy dubby over Saddamistan actions.

MKSheppard wrote: THe Correct Term is Anarcho-Jihadi-Saboteur-Terrorist.

Well, yeah...I don't dispute a pezookian citizen may be an anarchist saboteur terrorist, but a jihadi? Come on!

And what about those who owned their own companies? Not every company is a huge multinational faceless corp...

Capital assets of the company were seized when the citizen flew overseas.

So, if a Shepnukistani own, say, a dollar store in PeZookia, he can take his car (even if he used it for business), his belongings, sell his house and transfer the money back home, and take 10 thousand dollars in cash with himself.

His dollar store, he can either sell to a PeZookian (or the government) before leaving, or if he doesn't, it's considered abandoned and auctioned off (or taken over outright) by the government. Same goes for production machines, point-of-sale systems, etc.

Scrapping production machines before leaving is forbidden. Closing down the company before leaving is forbidden, too: you have to sell it or leave it, unless it doesn't make money. Some companies do creative accounting to circumvent these rules, of course, hiding profits et al.

It's a constant battle

Sea Skimmer wrote: Actually contaminated milk, for month or two would be the only serious concern of such a limited amount of fallout, only a very little bit of pulverized reactor material would actually become airborne in the first place, even less is going to make it across the open ocean.. The threat is much less then even that of the Windscale fire, let alone Chernobyl.

I think Figolfin is talking about the nuclear strike in the Diocese...I already mentioned that damage from radioactive dust was very limited, with the only death being two infants who inhaled some contaminants and were fed contaminated milk.

Well then long term contamination depends on Shep's nuke burst height.

So let me get this straight. The Diocese shoots down a recon plane they thought was (or was about to) violating their airspace. In response, Shep (naturally) sends in the nukes. Because he's just insane like that.

Now we are once more on the brink of war because Shep can't keep his nuclear dick in his pants.

But wait, there's more! Why was the Shepnukistani airplane there? Because the IRT invite it in. Without bothering to inform Alexander of its origin. An act which, it turns out, would not have been approved had Alexander been informed ahead of time. Hmm...so it would appear Shep was violating a country's airspace, albeit to be fair, he probably would have assumed it was ok, and the IRT had cleared it. Which obviously, they didn't.

Unless of course the IRT seriously believed they get to make such policy decisions instead of Alexander?

So I'm thinking the blame for all of this lies not on Shepnukistan. But instead it is the fault of the Incorporated Republic of Tonkin, who through their reckless actions and complete disregard for Alexander's sovereignty caused this terrible incident to take place.

Yep, that looks about right to me.

Doomsday Arsenal: an insight:

122 RN-28 20 kT nuclear bomb (deployed by: naval aviation, Su-27K)
All cobalt-encased, with 100 kilograms of cobalt in casing.

200 RN-40 30 kT nuclear bombs (deployed by: Su-34, Su-30 and 37, MiG-25, MiG-35). All cobalt-encased, with 100 kilograms of cobalt in casing.

100 VX-gas filled shells for the Babylon gun - with 200 kg of VX in each projectile.

50 Kh-90 HELA hypersonic missiles, with two 400 kT warheads each. Can be ground- or air-launched, with a 3000 km range and a M=5 cruise speed. Warheads in around 5 of them are cobalt-encased, with 400 kgs of cobalt in casing.

10 Kh-45 hypersonic missiles, with one 1 MT warhead, and a cruise speed of M=5, top speed of M=6, and a 1000 km range. Carried by T-4 supersonic bombers (three in total). Each T-4 carries 2x Kh-45. No cobalt encasing.

1 RDS-220 type 50 megaton bomb (thanks Shep!!!). Carried by a converted Tu-95MS. Cobalt plasters (5 tons) kept separately from bomb. W/cobalt casing essentially constitutes a doomsday device - when detonated, would have spread fallout to the entier SDN archipelago, causing deaths of most humans in several years.

10 spaceborn 10 kT missiles (1700 kg total mass of missile), deployed from orbital fighter-bombers. Cobalt casing created, but presently not deployed and stored at the cosmodrome.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effects of cobalt bombardment:
The bombardment of an enemy with stock low-yield aviation bombs would instantly deny him entire urban areas, and in a month, half of the population would be dead. Hiding does not make sense, cobalt remains lethally radioactive for 5 years.

In case of war, cobalt high-yield strikes against the capital, tactical devices exploded in smaller cities. The enemy is destroyed, but the world will not be contaminated to mundicide scale - low-yield weapons will have their fireball not rising into stratosphere.

Fallout will occur at minutes to weeks, very fast, and utterly contaminate the enemy territory.

The detonation of RDS-220 over enemy territory or neutral seas would result in massive world fallout, on the order of 0,5 gram per km for the SDN Archipelago, and that would over several years result in mundicide.

This option is reserves as a last-line defense.

RogueIce wrote: But wait, there's more! Why was the Shepnukistani airplane there? Because the IRT invite it in. Without bothering to inform Alexander of its origin. An act which, it turns out, would not have been approved had Alexander been informed ahead of time. Hmm...so it would appear Shep was violating a country's airspace, albeit to be fair, he probably would have assumed it was ok, and the IRT had cleared it. Which obviously, they didn't.

I really think the fact the IRT hasn't informed Alexander of the plane's origin is a pretty minor thing ; The fact Shep is willing to destroy entire cities ("welcome bonus damage") in response to maybe losing an aircrew (ProTec seems to think they survived...) is far more grievious.

You would do well to notice that when we almost went to war last year, he responded to Canissians killing his cows by destroying the rail guns with conventional cluster bombs ; He could do the same here, too, but Libertia can't retaliate, so Shepnukistan feels he can do whatever he wants.

PeZook wrote:I really think the fact the IRT hasn't informed Alexander of the plane's origin is a pretty minor thing ; The fact Shep is willing to destroy entire cities ("welcome bonus damage") in response to maybe losing an aircrew (ProTec seems to think they survived...) is far more grievious.

You would do well to notice that when we almost went to war last year, he responded to Canissians killing his cows by destroying the rail guns with conventional cluster bombs ; He could do the same here, too, but Libertia can't retaliate, so Shepnukistan feels he can do whatever he wants.

Oh, I'm not saying he didn't overreact. That's a given.

Shep was, technically, illegally violating Alexandrian airspace.

I'm not saying what he did was right at all. I'm just pointing out that the start of this little chain of events lies at the IRT's feet. So if there are sanctions to be had (hopefully war doesn't break out) we should keep that in mind.

That's my main point. Essentially if war breaks out, the IRT's role is minor. They didn't nuke the Diocese. But if it's restricted to diplomatic and economic sanctions, their role cannot be ignored.

BTW, I think the majority of the FUN agreed to start the nuclear program already, right?

So we can begin making the first crude, barely deliverable devices

Allow me to clarify the above.

I'm not giving Shepnukistan a free pass. What they did was an overreaction and, simply, wrong. I'm just pointing out that they alone do not hold the blame for this incident.

Now, what it comes down to, ultimately, is what the eventual response is.

If it comes to war, then the IRT's role is indeed fairly minor, relatively speaking. They wouldn't warrant strikes at all.

However, if it stays within the realm of diplomatic and economic sanctions, that's where their role is of higher importance. Besides which, on a practical level, how many people have formal relations and trade with Shepnukistan anyway? It would be a bigger punishment for the IRT, frankly.

Again, I'm not giving Shepnukistan a free pass for their barbaric actions in the Diocese. But neither am I going to look the other way with regard to the IRT's actions, either.

Essentially if war breaks out, the IRT's role is minor.

The IRT long posed itself as a UAR ally. A few cobalt bombs swung it's way can't hurt.

My current arsenal is 100 megaton (1% of the UAR arsenal, I can't believe I'm saying this!), but I cannot make more warheads.

However, with enough cobalt casing, my small arsenal is more than enough for a technical world killing.