More Trektardism

[Darth Wong]

Its quite telling that Phoenix doesn't like Mike criticizing white supremacists, indicating Phoenix probably is one himself.

What's really interesting is how many Trektards actually reject the kind of social liberalism and left-wing politics that are generally espoused in Star Trek. Look at how many of them are political right-wingers (including RSA himself). Why are they such fans of the show, if they hold political and social views which are so diametrically opposed to it?

It occurs to me that theyr'e not really fans of the show as-is, but rather, they are fans of what they think it should be. That helps explain why their vision of Star Trek combat and capabilities is so incredibly wanked compared to the reality of the show, and why it has never bothered them that all of the Star Trek battles on the ground or in space have never looked remotely similar to the way they think they should look.

They've got this gigantic construct built up in their heads of the way Star Trek should be; in their minds, it is controlled by an anarcho-libertarian (yet simultaneously heavily militarized) government which employs the tactics of the Ancient Roman Empire on its enemies, and all of its technologies are what they would be, if only the Trektards were in charge of enhancing them to what they believe their theoretical capabilities really are.

[Coiler]

That's nothing. HE topped that by saying that now ST could build powered armour that would be the superior of Starship Trooper MI armour, if they wanted to.

And of course they refrain from doing this out of a sense of fair play and stuff. >_>

He's also claiming the Federation has AAA capable of shooting down Ork fighta-bommerz.


At least he's conceding that a large number of Orks will be able to overrun Trek Earth, which is at least a step in the right direction.

[DarthShady]

At least he's conceding that a large number of Orks will be able to overrun Trek Earth, which is at least a step in the right direction.

Not much of a step, considering his other bullshit.

[Terralthra]

He's also claiming the Federation has AAA capable of shooting down Ork fighta-bommerz.

During the Dominion war, the Breen BOMBED EARTH. Planetary shields? AAA? Those might've helped....

[Coiler]

What's really interesting is how many Trektards actually reject the kind of social liberalism and left-wing politics that are generally espoused in Star Trek. Look at how many of them are political right-wingers (including RSA himself). Why are they such fans of the show, if they hold political and social views which are so diametrically opposed to it?

To be fair, it's possible to enjoy a work without agreeing with its message.

[montypython]

Its quite telling that Phoenix doesn't like Mike criticizing white supremacists, indicating Phoenix probably is one himself.

What's really interesting is how many Trektards actually reject the kind of social liberalism and left-wing politics that are generally espoused in Star Trek. Look at how many of them are political right-wingers (including RSA himself). Why are they such fans of the show, if they hold political and social views which are so diametrically opposed to it?

It occurs to me that theyr'e not really fans of the show as-is, but rather, they are fans of what they think it should be. That helps explain why their vision of Star Trek combat and capabilities is so incredibly wanked compared to the reality of the show, and why it has never bothered them that all of the Star Trek battles on the ground or in space have never looked remotely similar to the way they think they should look.

They've got this gigantic construct built up in their heads of the way Star Trek should be; in their minds, it is controlled by an anarcho-libertarian (yet simultaneously heavily militarized) government which employs the tactics of the Ancient Roman Empire on its enemies, and all of its technologies are what they would be, if only the Trektards were in charge of enhancing them to what they believe their theoretical capabilities really are.

I've seen this occur in so many fics made by these folks that it's aggravating, I mean that even the most military focused Trek styled materials such as Star Fleet Battles or the Starfleet series by Interstel don't follow their logic, yet if the Feds don't use Genesis on all their enemies it's wrong in these guys minds.

[Darth Wong]

I've seen this occur in so many fics made by these folks that it's aggravating, I mean that even the most military focused Trek styled materials such as Star Fleet Battles or the Starfleet series by Interstel don't follow their logic, yet if the Feds don't use Genesis on all their enemies it's wrong in these guys minds.

It's a very childish mindset. It reminds me of the imbeciles who think that they could solve the Iraq problem overnight if they were put in charge, with such brilliant ideas as "we have to get ruthless with them".

[EnterpriseSovereign]

He's also claiming the Federation has AAA capable of shooting down Ork fighta-bommerz.

During the Dominion war, the Breen BOMBED EARTH. Planetary shields? AAA? Those might've helped....

From Memory Alpha:

It should be noted that, considering the massive planetary damage done by the Romulan-Cardassian fleet at the Battle of the Omarion Nebula and the damage it was said that a Constitution class starship was capable of even in the 23rd century, it seems likely that the largest Breen warships were stopped by Starfleet before they reached Earth, or much more massive damage would probably have occurred.
The relatively limited damage shown suggests that smaller Breen fighters or atmosphere-capable spacecraft were the actual attackers of the city. It is also likely that, given Earth's vital importance to the Federation, the planet would have significant orbital defenses.

Thus, AAA would have been very useful against such craft.

[Coiler]

Thus, AAA would have been very useful against such craft.

Again, to be fair, the fact that the Breen attack succeeded in and of itself is not proof that the Federation lacks AAA. After all, the pounding bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII succeeded (in that they inflicted large amounts of damage) despite the fact that both countries possessed large quantities of AAA.

But that the Breen attack succeeded tells us that the Federation lacks sufficient AAA (or defenses period) to stop an attack on Earth before it does any damage.

And the Orks ain't pulling off a minor raid, they're launching a major WAAAUGH!!

[Stark]

That's an awesome argument there, ES. We know the REAL ships got stopped and only fighters got through (even though they'd be easier to kill lol) because we KNOW that they would have BDZ'd the planet otherwise, since that's what ST starships do! Obviously!

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Easier to kill assuming you can hit them, and we already know Trek accuracy is piss-poor

[Aratech]

That's an awesome argument there, ES. We know the REAL ships got stopped and only fighters got through (even though they'd be easier to kill lol) because we KNOW that they would have BDZ'd the planet otherwise, since that's what ST starships do! Obviously!

Well to be fair, if we look at certain examples of torp accuracy, such as WOTW, it could be argued that missiles that miss 600 meter long ships that are barely maneuvering might be completely incapable of hitting fighter craft.

[Batman]

And since photon torpedoes are the only weapon Starfleet ever uses are torpedoes that means that fighters are invincible. Oh wait, that's not true. Not only DO they use other weapons-namely phasers-, not only do fighters in Trek generally display about the same level of maneuverability as capships-i.e. that of a sailing ship-but that comment on Memory Alpha has exactly NOTHING backing it up. Especially since every last time we actually SAW Trek ships attack a planetary surface, the results weren't exactly spectacular.

[Aratech]

And since photon torpedoes are the only weapon Starfleet ever uses are torpedoes that means that fighters are invincible. Oh wait, that's not true.

You'd be surprised how many people over at ST.com think that. In all seriousness, though I was just making a jab about their accuracy(Hence the smiley) (though the Cardie ships in SoA seemed to have trouble hitting the fighter with their omnidirectional weapons). Come to think of it, as its been a while since I've been able to catch a Breen episode, do they even have fighters?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

While I agree, wrt ST fighter maneuverability, you can judge that for yourself, as well as the effectiveness of beam weapons against them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwKnvRPIrl0

[Batman]

Oh I agree that Trek weapon accuracy is nothing to brag about to begin with.
My main gripe is that the evidence backing up that Memory Alpha quote ES posted-doesn't exist. It's complete and utter speculation backed up by nothing whatsoever. It's 'shoulda woulda coulda' when all we know is
1) the Breen fleet attacked Earth and
2) they did negligible damage.
And that's ALL we know. It might have been due to planetary shields, it might have been due to the only forces getting through being the fighters (which raises the question of how they managed to get PAST the planetary shields), it may be because the Breen just don't BDZ planets on alternate Thursdays and this happened to be one of those. It could be The Doctor stopped by and locked most of the attacking fleet up in a parallel dimension.
We just don't know.

[Wyrm]

I'm waiting for one of these Trektards to claim that the Heavy Turbolasers on an ISD has a smaller (or equal) firepower than the Light Turbolasers. It'll happen.

[Connor MacLeod]

In other news: I've been heaering that JMspcoky is fucking around with the word filter software on his board. Now when anyone says "bullshit" in regards to some of their bit of stupidity, it gets automatically changed to "reasonable".

For example, calling his masturbation over "better than SST" power armour a "bullshit logic" would lead to it being changed to "reasonable argument".

[OmegaGuy]

Just type bullsh.it instead

[Stark]

In other news: I've been heaering that JMspcoky is fucking around with the word filter software on his board. Now when anyone says "bullshit" in regards to some of their bit of stupidity, it gets automatically changed to "reasonable".

For example, calling his masturbation over "better than SST" power armour a "bullshit logic" would lead to it being changed to "reasonable argument".

If this shows up in preview (ie, you don't have to actually POST), you should built a translation dictionary and post it (in broken form, ie 'bulls.hit = reasonable'. Frame it as 'How JMSpock looks at the world'. And add it to his Imperial wiki page.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh, it gets better:

Culture vs FEderation+Allies

I havent read it all, but sufficed to say, the fact there are 9 votes, 4 of which figuring the Feddies would win, is just further indication of how fucked up they are.

[Stark]

Connor, I think the JMSpock article on Iwiki calls to you.

[Connor MacLeod]

I don't wiki.

[Stark]

A fine and upstanding attitude I wholeheartedly (although somewhat hypocritically of late) agree with! However, your experience and expertise in this area would be a great addition. His forum filter alone is great shit. Needs more essays that turncoats like myself can pillage for great justice.

[Connor MacLeod]

You can get in line, Publius has been asking me to submit articles to DP for longer, and look where it got the poor guy

Anyhow, our good friend "Who is Like God Arbour", aka "Avogadro" chimed in now saying (I'll summarize, since it was posted in his long winded manner) that we shouldn't assume the Feddies are incompetent because of what we see, ,because they've progressed from modern-day infantry forces and that must mean they have competency. Or something to that effect