SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

[doom3607]

Bolos do pose a serious threat to orbiting warships. And the idea behind a $100 tank was that two of them could take on a Titan legion. But fine, I'll scale down to $50 which puts them on the same level as the biggest titans, which is still an army-killer.

Then again, even a $50 tank could pose a threat to sufficiently small orbital ships, given pricing... This is assuming ground units can attack stuff in orbit. Can it? If so, is it treated the same as a normal space battle?

Come to think of it, how exactly are battles worked?

[Darkevilme]

Bolos do pose a serious threat to orbiting warships. And the idea behind a $100 tank was that two of them could take on a Titan legion. But fine, I'll scale down to $50 which puts them on the same level as the biggest titans, which is still an army-killer.

Then again, even a $50 tank could pose a threat to sufficiently small orbital ships, given pricing... This is assuming ground units can attack stuff in orbit. Can it? If so, is it treated the same as a normal space battle?

Come to think of it, how exactly are battles worked?

You know. I was about to correct you on the whole $50 is the price of a single huge titan thing as last i checked they were like..$5 each..but it seems that changed >.>

Anyway onto the important questions.

Yes Ground units can attack stuff in orbit, and some of them can even defend against it. This is to stop ground forces being at the mercy of strategic bombardment from space based assets.

As for how battles are worked. Mostly it's done by mutual agreement and compromise between the two players engaging in said shitkicking contest, total point values can be used as a rough yardstick if they wish or waived entirely based on mutual agreement. The other main drive for directing the results of conflicts is of course storytelling.

If player's cannot agree on how the battle should go then the moderators may have to step in and rule using the total point values as a more absolute measure, however this has not happened in the STGOD thus far and if it ever does something has probably gone amiss somewhere.

[Simon_Jester]

I would rule that ground points have organic* surface-to-aerospace defenses capable of fighting off space forces of roughly equal point value. Thus, on a planet where several million troops are engaged, anything up to and including cruiser-scale naval units would have to be careful about trying to bombard the planet, for fear of getting missiled/lasered/whatevered to death from below. However, these defenses are only helpful against ships attacking the planet directly, or possibly attacking targets in planetary orbit. And they can be neutralized by your own ground forces: a 200-point ground army can fight a 200-point ground army, or a 200-point starship trying to nuke it to death, but if it fights both at the same time it's gonna be in trouble.

I picture prolonged planetary battles as looking sort of like the action around Guadalcanal during World War Two, with both sides trying to gain naval supremacy over the planet, and the results being indecisive because neither side can acquire naval supremacy for long enough.

The difference is that the armies engaged have enough coast-defense weapons that they can take a meaningful part in the naval battle, so long as the scale of the fleets doesn't exceed the scale of their firepower- the equivalent of someone showing up with a squadron of battleships that make having a few batteries of six-inch guns on the coast meaningless.
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*I use this term a lot; it means, in this context, "integrated into the military formation as part of its built-in capabilities," the way that an infantry squad's machine gunner is an "organic" heavy weapon built into the squad. Of course, in your case the aerospace defenses may actually be organic in the "made of carbon" sense for all I know, and that would totally be OK.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Bolos do pose a serious threat to orbiting warships. And the idea behind a $100 tank was that two of them could take on a Titan legion. But fine, I'll scale down to $50 which puts them on the same level as the biggest titans, which is still an army-killer.

Then again, even a $50 tank could pose a threat to sufficiently small orbital ships, given pricing... This is assuming ground units can attack stuff in orbit. Can it? If so, is it treated the same as a normal space battle?

Come to think of it, how exactly are battles worked?

Erm. You do realise that my Titans are more siege machines/giant artillery platforms than actual army fighters? I would have my armies escorting them, typically.

[Simon_Jester]

His Bolo-analogues would be the same thing, surely- giant artillery platforms that function as part of a combined arms force.

The point remains that bringing a 50-pt superheavy ground unit to the table is equivalent to bringing millions of normal soldiers to the table: that unit is, like it or not, an army-killer. Even if it's normally combined with, say, a 50-pt army of normal soldiers... that just means that you use one army and one Titan to fight off two enemy armies. The equivalency of a Titan and an army of normal soldiers is preserved.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

His Bolo-analogues would be the same thing, surely- giant artillery platforms that function as part of a combined arms force.

The point remains that bringing a 50-pt superheavy ground unit to the table is equivalent to bringing millions of normal soldiers to the table: that unit is, like it or not, an army-killer. Even if it's normally combined with, say, a 50-pt army of normal soldiers... that just means that you use one army and one Titan to fight off two enemy armies. The equivalency of a Titan and an army of normal soldiers is preserved.

Well yes, if you decide to go by the pedantic point by point thing.

[PeZook]

Yeah, i'd imagine there is some variation between units, just like a 15000$ Stinger is not equivalent to a 15 000$ iron bomb.

[Simon_Jester]

Specialization, yes- but Titans are often used to assault and reduce heavy ground defenses, yes? They're not pure surface-to-space weapon platforms. In that capacity they're definitely army-killers, I'd think. Or at least I'd hope so; if not, the God-Emperor might want to have a word with his weapons designers because he's been cheated.

[doom3607]

Two things:

1. My giant Bolo-things are the equivalent of ridiculously oversized main battle tanks, which means they're supposed to be the equivalent of a jack-of-all-trades. If a Titan of equivalent cost is optimized for killing armor, it would kill the Bolo. I would abide by this, because it's fair. However, kindly remember that the original Bolos had main guns equivalent o a dreadnought's main battery weaponry. Mine will have main guns on a similar level of power. Of course, they only had a couple, as opposed to the dozens if not hundreds mounted by dreadnoughts... Mine will be the same way.

2. None of my technology is alive. It's all manufactured metals and whatnot. Well, metals, ceramics, that sort of thing. You know what I mean.

EDIT: Also, question- any idea how long until I get my NCP roll and can actually, well, create my nation? I can wait, I'm just curious.

[Darkevilme]

EDIT: Also, question- any idea how long until I get my NCP roll and can actually, well, create my nation? I can wait, I'm just curious.

Only Steve and his trusty six sided dice can know for sure. He's usually pretty quick though. Now i have a question for you which i'm sure we're all curious about the answer to, where were you planning to set your nation up? who are your neighbours?

[doom3607]

Where's a four-sector region of space surrounded entirely by people who wouldn't really mind a more-or-less dormant insect race living there? Because that's where I am.

[Steve]

There's quite a few spaces you could be fit into, I'd suggest talking with prospective neighbors and seeing if they'd like having you around or if your presence would contradict established storylines.

Oh, and you now have a roll, check the ruleset thread.

[doom3607]

Well... that's just about perfect, for me. Where do I record my empire starting set-up? Just make a page on the wiki, or what?

Would the Centrality or the Idurans mind me occupying L12, L13, M12, and M13? Or the UN? Would a dormant insect race sitting on twenty nice planets right next to you contradict anything?

[Steve]

Well... that's just about perfect, for me. Where do I record my empire starting set-up? Just make a page on the wiki, or what?

Would the Centrality or the Idurans mind me occupying L12, L13, M12, and M13? Or the UN? Would a dormant insect race sitting on twenty nice planets right next to you contradict anything?

For what it's worth, I think it could work, but we'll have to see about how it'd effect the pirates/Battle of Zebes storyline.

[Force Lord]

Well... that's just about perfect, for me. Where do I record my empire starting set-up? Just make a page on the wiki, or what?

Would the Centrality or the Idurans mind me occupying L12, L13, M12, and M13? Or the UN? Would a dormant insect race sitting on twenty nice planets right next to you contradict anything?

The UN is the Mod Hammer, and not quite fleshed out for that reason.

You're literally next door to Dave, and I'm quite close enough. While your prescence doesn't contradict my storylines, I'm not so sure about Dave since he hasn't posted for some time. And since you're not like the Karlacks, I don't particularly mind your placement of the Locrians.

You can write your nation's set up in the Wiki, while here you can write up your nation's historical background.

For what it's worth, I think it could work, but we'll have to see about how it'd effect the pirates/Battle of Zebes storyline.

The Locrians could have stayed neutral and only snipe at pirates that get too close. The Coalition has plenty of firepower as it is.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, having a dormant race sitting on planets that close to Earth would have... I'd call them second-order effects.

I'd written one particular passage that strongly implies that space is unoccupied, but it could be retconned easily enough now that the RIS has been removed over on the spinward side of the UN and opened up some new empty space. Aside from that, I can't think of much of anything wrong with the idea. And if they simply didn't send anyone to Zebes, it would hardly provoke any significant crises or changes in the storyline.
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Another possibility that would put you in much the same vein would be to pick a spot somewhere in the vicinity of R17, where there's another big open space. That puts you close to the xenophobic Byzantine Imperium, but they have big enough problems close to home that this wouldn't necessarily result in war to the knife or anything.

Also, to be honest, their flavor works better if they're "surrounded by xenos..."

Hmm. Or you could go down near the lower edge of the map between the Pfhor and the Chamarrans- the Pfhor are nominally expansionist but have been inactive in the game, and it would explain a bit if they ran up against someone tough enough to act as a barrier to their expansion in the form of you.

But all in good time- it's worth taking the time to think all this over.

[doom3607]

Hmm... the region between the Pfhor and the Chamarrans actually was my first choice, but apparently the Chiron are a bit xenophovic. Then again, who the hell wants to take on those goddamn Bolos? We could just say they didn't attack because it wasn't worth it...

Ah... I'll think about it. I'll probably be heading out to dinner shortly, so I'll have my answer up in an hour or two.

Also, would the Byzantines launch an immediate attack if I happened to be found near their space, or would they see my large defensive fleets and just decide they have bigger problems than one dormant race of bugs?

[Darkevilme]

Chirons are inactive and may be trimmed to a minor nation sometime, and even when they WERE active they had no qualms about trading with the conquering space kitties from beyond the arm.

[Simon_Jester]

So, that sounds like a good region of space then. It's quiet enough to justify no one paying much attention to you up until the beginning of 3401 or so. It's an area where there are already a number of alien polities, implied to be at roughly the edge of the region humans have explored and settled into in any significant numbers. It puts you reasonably close to a number of active and semi-active players.

And it gives the Bragulans someone new to invite to conferences on inhumanitarian interests.

[Steve]

My view of the open space around the UN is that the local space is either truly uninhabited or is inhabited by single-system, or even single-continent or sub-continent nations like Sector X-13 has, with the UN actively supporting their continued independence.

[Tanasinn]

Also, would the Byzantines launch an immediate attack if I happened to be found near their space, or would they see my large defensive fleets and just decide they have bigger problems than one dormant race of bugs?

The Byzantines have the Bragulans and Karlacks to consider. Personally, I think it'd be unlikely they'd deliberately provoke another power unless they mistook you for Karlacks or under the authority of some rogue figure.

[Simon_Jester]

My view of the open space around the UN is that the local space is either truly uninhabited or is inhabited by single-system, or even single-continent or sub-continent nations like Sector X-13 has, with the UN actively supporting their continued independence.

True, but we already have nations located with no more than one tile of open space between them and the UN. Adding another one wouldn't hurt anything.

[Darkevilme]

Also, would the Byzantines launch an immediate attack if I happened to be found near their space, or would they see my large defensive fleets and just decide they have bigger problems than one dormant race of bugs?

The Byzantines have the Bragulans and Karlacks to consider. Personally, I think it'd be unlikely they'd deliberately provoke another power unless they mistook you for Karlacks or under the authority of some rogue figure.

Indeed. If the Byzantines tried assaulting you they just know you'd get an aspect from the karlack visiting you soon going "We should talk." and then the situation would go down the shitter. Their attitude to alien scum tends to be "we'll kill you EVENTUALLY, priority for now goes to the bugs who will actively start eating the galaxy the moment no one is there to stop them."

[Simon_Jester]

In contrast to the Bragulans, whose policy is "we'll kill you xenos scum EVENTUALLY, but GRRAAA it's taking so long there are so many of you!"

Or the Chamarrans, whose policy is "we'll subjugate you xenos scum EVENTUALLY, but oh look! Yarn!"

EDIT: And then there was that time someone got ahold of a laser pointer in Chamarran space; the devices are now officially banned...

[doom3607]

Hmm... I think setting up shop between the Chamarrans and the Pfhor is the best decision storywise. If it's quiet enough where they could justify having left me alone, and I'll have neighbors who aren't out to kill me and all, then it seems like the perfect place for the Locrians to have been. I shall begin constructing the wiki page. My sectors will be H27, H28, I27, I28, assuming nobody has an issue with me occupying those.