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Again, while I do not approve of Laz's tactics, I think Alyrium is being a tad bit unreasonable here. Putting aside all the issues of detection and the like, it irritates me that attaching the number 13 to a character puts him beyond all harm. Look at my posts with Marcao. This is one of my best operatives, and yet in every encounter he comes away a bit more hurt and with a few less options. For you, in this first encounter with a citizen you claim to tame the symbiote, becoming powerful beyond all mortal reckoning, and have one mage tear up the entire ship from the inside in a matter of seconds. I dont care WHAT level the mage is, no one at this tech level should be able to shred armor like that. Sure, you dont agree with Laz's tactics. But can you at least concede one freakin point?

I am very well aware with the DnD ruleset and have been playing since late first edition. I agree that Laz's methods leave a lot to be desired, but Alyrium is not filling me with confidence at all. As far as I can see he seems to be under the impression that his magical use allows with it some sort of invulnerability.

If that is the case, if I ever deal with him all my military personnel will be 40th level analogs in classes I make up. *shrugs* I have no interest as it stands right now to even consider association with some players in this STGOD.

Erm... Marcao? That mage should never have even been brought aboard that ship. There are battle groups from two nations over the planet. Lazerus is a bit too fond of uber cloaks, IMHO. We're running on DS9 tech here. I seriously doubt the Romulans could run an entire Federation battle group, use transporters on a subject on the surface of the nearby planet while within line of sight of at least three, probably more orbiting ships, and engage warp to get away, all without being noticed.

Seeing as how Pablo isn't here and I'm not really interested in playing would you want me to mod?

Rogue 9 wrote:Erm... Marcao? That mage should never have even been brought aboard that ship. There are battle groups from two nations over the planet. Lazerus is a bit too fond of uber cloaks, IMHO. We're running on DS9 tech here. I seriously doubt the Romulans could run an entire Federation battle group, use transporters on a subject on the surface of the nearby planet while within line of sight of at least three, probably more orbiting ships, and engage warp to get away, all without being noticed.

True dat'. That's why the shuttle moves with undue speed.

Think of it as the guy in the bushes trying to escape, if you wern't sure where he was to began with, you might pause long enough for him to run before you shoot him.

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject:

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Seeing as how Pablo isn't here and I'm not really interested in playing would you want me to mod?

*shrug* If the other players want.

Rogue 9 wrote:I seriously doubt the Romulans could run an entire Federation battle group, use transporters on a subject on the surface of the nearby planet while within line of sight of at least three, probably more orbiting ships, and engage warp to get away, all without being noticed.

I think I saw an episode of TNG where that happened

Erm... Lazerus? I'm fairly certain that when he went to the Krytosians he actually did go to the Krytosians, not you.

Krytos, Krynor, they sound the same.

Post edited.

Rogue 9 wrote:Erm... Marcao? That mage should never have even been brought aboard that ship. There are battle groups from two nations over the planet. Lazerus is a bit too fond of uber cloaks, IMHO. We're running on DS9 tech here. I seriously doubt the Romulans could run an entire Federation battle group, use transporters on a subject on the surface of the nearby planet while within line of sight of at least three, probably more orbiting ships, and engage warp to get away, all without being noticed.

I will point out that I said that I was not terribly enthusiastic about the methods employed by Lazerus. However, breaking a blockade with a cloaked ship while hard to swallow is infinately more reasonable than the bull that Alyrium posted. Don't get me wrong, they are both doing questionable things and I am waiting for Pablo's ruling on this. However, Lazerus put more thought and work into his post than Alyrium by far.

Let's see, cloaked ship sliding past sensors and transporting a single humanoid up. That's tricky but still faintly within the realm of possibility, depending upon what exactly are the defenses of such things.

Alyrium on the other hand does the following.
He takes over a Goa`uld symbiote with his own will? riiight. Oh yeah, because he is a teleapth! Gee whiz, I am in luck cuz my nation are all telepths so that means I am immune to Goa`uld!! Yay!!! *snorts*

His mage casts a spell before anyone can even jiggle their testicles. Which immediately makes him immune to "zat guns". Immune, not resistant, not resilient but immune! Oh my!

He then casts a circle of death spell and everyone falls dead (eventhough the fucking spell has limits and allows resistance in the DnD game).

He then moves into an auto-fellatio frenzy where his uber-badass mage rapes the entire crew of the ship, teleports down to the planet and is in time for dinner with the seven gnomes.

Both sides are pulling shit, but there is no DOUBT which side is pulling the most fantastical shit. Since you have asserted that we ARE running DS9 tech over here, we have to get a mod to seriously look at Alyrium's posts and see if his "magic" follows those standards. Personally, I have not enjoyed reading a SINGLE post made by Alyrium so far. THAT is not filling me with confidence.

edit: clarified a point

Stormbringer as a mod?

Sounds good to me. I say let's havee him. At least then this issue can be resolved.

Well, I don't want to usurp Pablo's authority. But I'd like to help if I can and if people want me too.

Stormbringer wrote:Well, I don't want to usurp Pablo's authority. But I'd like to help if I can and if people want me too.

This is a good idea, as I can't be on all the time and problems can crop up at any moment, as we see. It's also nice to have a second opinion on gameplay matters. Now... my opinion on this is two fold:

1) It was decidedly uncool for Lazerus to just sort of waltz into the system and grab a high-level badass without difficulty.
2) Logically I don't think there's any way for Alyrium's mage to resist the symbiote.

Now, we can either go back and pretend this never happened (which idea I don't like) or we can assume the Mage's mind has been o'erthrown.

I am certain that someone mentioned this, but another option could be that the mage being a psyker and all may be able to delay the infiltration of the symbiote long enough to commit suicide by wiping his own mind or whatever. it is something to consider, since it does not reward Lazerus for his uncool behavior but does not have him losing a ship to das uber-mage.

Unlikely, I don't think my ground spy would have targeted someone he knew to have high mental resistance.

1) It was decidedly uncool for Lazerus to just sort of waltz into the system and grab a high-level badass without difficulty.

Sorry, it's a 1-time thing.

lazerus wrote:Unlikely, I don't think my ground spy would have targeted someone he knew to have high mental resistance.

Alyrium is using DnD rules to define his characters, and a high-level mage always has a quite high will save. It's just one of those things.

Alyrium is using DnD rules to define his characters, and a high-level mage always has a quite high will save. It's just one of those things.

Yes, that's unavoidable. But since that's bad enough, he would have to be an idiot to pick someone who has psionic powers that give him insane mental abilites ON TOP of the mage mental resistance.

Lazerus, the point of it is one time or not it's too much. To say you're able to walk in undetetected, grab a mage (pre-selected for weakness no less!) and get out with out serious harm is going too far. For one thing that's a highly complex operation and requires a lot of negligence on Alyrium's people's part.


And even then, Alyrium's mages aren't push over by any means, you should know that. Abducting one is not a bright idea. While I'm not too keen on allowing Alyrium to ravage your ship quite so easily, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think one of his mages could disable the ship or incapacitate a significant portion of the crew if you were to bring one aboard.

lazerus wrote:

Alyrium is using DnD rules to define his characters, and a high-level mage always has a quite high will save. It's just one of those things.

Yes, that's unavoidable. But since that's bad enough, he would have to be an idiot to pick someone who has psionic powers that give him insane mental abilites ON TOP of the mage mental resistance.

Hey, you're kind of missing the point. MAGES ARE BADASSES. There's no way around that.

Stormbringer wrote:Hey, you're kind of missing the point. MAGES ARE BADASSES. There's no way around that.

In fact it's reasonable to think that the mage in question could shrug off a Zat-gun shot, considering that the amount of subdual damage required to knock him unconscious would be many times that of a normal human. A shot which would stun a mage would generally kill a human.

I thought you said you didn't want to undermine Pablo's authority, what's your saying contradicts what he says.

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pre-selected for weakness no less!)

Wrong, psionics are a very very rare talent. He would have to have gone to lenghts to FIND a psion, this guy is just average.

For one thing that's a highly complex operation and requires a lot of negligence on Alyrium's people's part.

This is an occupied planet that is facing rebel revolts and gurillia war. As long as my team is small, and very skilled, they can do it.

And even then, Alyrium's mages aren't push over by any means, you should know that. Abducting one is not a bright idea. While I'm not too keen on allowing Alyrium to ravage your ship quite so easily, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think one of his mages could disable the ship or incapacitate a significant portion of the crew if you were to bring one aboard

Normally you would be absolutly right, but the mage in question is:
1) Out cold from a weapons that knocks you out for severel hours.
2) Beaten to a pulp.
3) Was just returning form his shift so he's probally used up a fair amount of his spell slots per day.

Hey, you're kind of missing the point. MAGES ARE BADASSES. There's no way around that.

A 27 level mage is a god on earth, armies quail in his presense, etc etc. And if an assasin gets a knife in his back when he's not prepared, he's dead.

Bottom line, they are STILL HUMAN (or elven) no matter how badass they are.

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:Hey, you're kind of missing the point. MAGES ARE BADASSES. There's no way around that.

In fact it's reasonable to think that the mage in question could shrug off a Zat-gun shot, considering that the amount of subdual damage required to knock him unconscious would be many times that of a normal human. A shot which would stun a mage would generally kill a human.

........then I shoot him twice. Zat guns do have rapid fire mode.

A shot which would stun a mage would generally kill a human.

In all of the SG series, we have never seen a zat gun fail to knock someone out. Not the SG team, not Jaafa, not goa'ould or jaaffa leaders that would have a shit ton of HP. So, at MOST, I would have to shoot him twice, and even once should do it.

and since zat guns can squeeze off two shots at once, he goes down either way. Moot point.

This whole discussion has me seriously worried.

Alyrium, if we ever get into a ground war, are you going to pull shit like

::::::My uber 1337 mage of doom shrugs off your puny weaponz fire and casts 10,000 uber spells of 1337 death that wipes out your whole army MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ::::::::::?

This is just starting to get messy now. Forgetting all of the technicalities, let me propose a scenario and see what everyone thinks.

Laz's spy has done some good work and has found a mage stronghold. He tracks the motions of one of the mages to get a good idea of his patterns. When the mage is about to leave the stronghold, the spy sends a message off to his allies waiting just out of system. They make a quick FTL jump into orbit. The sensors pick up the ship immediately, but there is nothing to identify the ship as Goa'uld. It is unmarked and of generic make from a universal shipping supplier. Meanwhile, the spy ship is working quickly. They are detecting at the point the spy pointed out to them, latch onto the energy signatures created by the mage's spell casting, and initiate teleport. They are able to stun the mage and KO him, and run quickly. The ship was detected, of course, and pursued, but no definite ID signature could be made. On the ship, the parasite is inserted. The mage is brought to consciousness by the pain but is immedaitely locked in a mental struggle with the symbiote. Both have incredibly large wills, and neither triumphs. Both the parasite's mind and the mages are destroyed by the struggle. Since they are both still alive, merely vegetables, the Goa'uld can study the mage's physiology easily (which was Laz's stated purpose in the first place). However, the mage is effectively dead and cannot be used as a Goa'uld agent. The mages gain no benefit from this and cannot find where the ship came from, hence Laz's ship currently docked for diplomatic reasons is fine. But the mages become increasingly paranoid, tightening their sensor net (or their diviner system, whatever) so nothing like this can happen again.

THAT is a reasonable solution, and if anyone thinks different, they are just trying to argue semantics to force a more favorable outcome for themselves than they probably deserve....

Darksider wrote:This whole discussion has me seriously worried.

Alyrium, if we ever get into a ground war, are you going to pull shit like

::::::My uber 1337 mage of doom shrugs off your puny weaponz fire and casts 10,000 uber spells of 1337 death that wipes out your whole army MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ::::::::::?

You can have my assurance that he will not be allowed to do anything along those lines. I doubt he would, anyway.

Bugsby:
I'm fine with that proposal, though the hitch is having both Lazerus and Alyrium agree to it.