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MRDOD wrote: Gustav II Adolf of Sweden- 1800s

He lived from 1594 to 1632 and led Sweden during the 30 years wars, which is outside your medieval timeframe.

MRDOD wrote:That enough heroic conquerors/victorious generals? I didn't add less impactful if as brilliant figures like any number figures from the Low Countries named Of Orange who seem to produce leaders like flies. I didn't get into statesmen or religious figures because that'd get a bit huge of a list.

I know most of those names but perhaps its because of personal conceit that they don't seem as epic as Julius Caesar. William conquered England, sure, and Saladin kicked the Crusaders out of Jerusalem but Caesar made himself an Emperor.

Point conceded though.

Sorry, but not one of those names has the mythic power of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. Hell, not all of them combined.

As for the Timurid cannon elephants, I don't know how I would deal with them as the Byzantine Empire, without culverins, because culverins handily outrange the elephant serpentines.

My current tactic for dealing with Timurids is to keep at least two units of culverins in any city along my border with them. If they lay siege or attack, I roll out my culverins from a side gate and blast their elephants from long range until they panic and go berserk. Then I send in the musketeers to finish off the rest of his army and any panicked elephants in their way.

Obviously, this entire plan doesn't work worth shit if I play as the Byzantines.

Darth Wong wrote:As for the Timurid cannon elephants, I don't know how I would deal with them as the Byzantine Empire, without culverins, because culverins handily outrange the elephant serpentines.

I still haven't fought em yet- I've got armies waiting for them but hey hadn't shown up by the time I was "all played out" games a few months ago.

I'll try and start this weekend and let you know

Darth Wong wrote:Sorry, but not one of those names has the mythic power of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. Hell, not all of them combined.

Conceded, although I was merely looking for examples that there were outstanding achievements that can be looked upon as legendary in or about MTWII's Time Period. Nothing is going to be as epic as Rome's time period because Roman and Epic are essentially synonyms as far as history goes.

Actually, I unconcede in the case of Genghis Khan. That name is right up there with Caesar and Alexander in terms of legendary historical figures doing crazy-awesome things.

MRDOD wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Sorry, but not one of those names has the mythic power of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. Hell, not all of them combined.

Conceded, although I was merely looking for examples that there were outstanding achievements that can be looked upon as legendary in or about MTWII's Time Period. Nothing is going to be as epic as Rome's time period because Roman and Epic are essentially synonyms as far as history goes.

Actually, I unconcede in the case of Genghis Khan. That name is right up there with Caesar and Alexander in terms of legendary historical figures doing crazy-awesome things.

Except that Average Joe has no clue what Genghis Khan did. But then again, plenty of Average Joes don't know what Caesar or Alexander the Great did either. Seems Average Joe knows almost nothing about history.

Genghis Khan was certainly legendary, and definitely worthy of recognition, but the Mongols in Medieval II seem over-powered. Last time I played through to the Mongol Invasion, they controlled everything east of Normandy. I was playing as England.

Overpowered? In my games they've been positively bloody useless. Heck, it takes them 100 years from when they show up to even arrive in Eastern Europe from Russian territory. I had a spy following them around for a while wondering wtf they were doing- they were literally aimlessly going back and forth in a particular Russian region (can't remember whihc) doing nothing.

Vympel wrote:Overpowered? In my games they've been positively bloody useless. Heck, it takes them 100 years from when they show up to even arrive in Eastern Europe from Russian territory. I had a spy following them around for a while wondering wtf they were doing- they were literally aimlessly going back and forth in a particular Russian region (can't remember whihc) doing nothing.

It could be because my Crusader territories in the Middle East had weakened the other factions in the region, so the Mongols could break through easily. Just a theory though. In my games, the Mongols usually kick ass. They easily conquer a territory in the Middle East, use their vast amounts of starting money to put unit production into over-drive, then quickly spread out from there.

At the moment in my game, Frogland controls all of its own country, most of Germany, and all of Spain. I (Venice, that is) is holding them back in the Alps, by placing several forts in the mountain passes and constantly wiping out their naval elements with my great big Carrack fleet. Spain currently holds on to Ajacco, which for reasons unknown remains a very small fortress, England has total control over the BI's. in the East I have taken all of the Byzantine territories. The Mongols have taken all of Egypt's territories and some of Turkey. The Mongols and Turks are currently blooding the Timurid, so when they head my way, my Cannon towers (which are slowly but surely spreading across the Empire) will wipe 'em out, combined with some indirect Mortar fire.

I have taken most of Africa and the Moors currently hold only have four territories, Granada and one lesser city in Iberia, and two in Africa, and constantly fighting France for any more territories. Poland, despite getting off to a good start currently has been split in half by a combined Hungarian/Russian effort. The HRE equally started off well but has now been fragmented by invasion after invasion.

Oh yes, I just got a foothold in the New World as well.....

It's gonna get confusing!

In my current game the Mongols arrived, broke the Turks up into 3 pieces (whom were already dealing with Polish encroachment to the North) and then vassalized them and vassalized the Egypitans leaving them pretty much intact. Poland was large empire has been divided in two Russians moving south and west with the Mongols moving North but. Right now the Timurans have arrived. They seems to be aimlessly wondering around and beating on the Turks eastern two provinces (bagdhag and some other one forgot the name) which have full stacks in them but they are not able to hold off the several stacks of the timurans, I took a look at the mongols city garrisons in that area and noticed that a lot of them only have one unit in them with most of their armies north of the causcaus mountains. If the Timurans would get their act together they could easily rape the Mongols.

I sent an assassin to kill the Pope, but I couldn't find him anywhere in Italy. I turned off fog of war, and he's in fucking Greece, leading an army besieging Corinth. WTF?

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:I sent an assassin to kill the Pope, but I couldn't find him anywhere in Italy. I turned off fog of war, and he's in fucking Greece, leading an army besieging Corinth. WTF?

Yes, sometimes The Papal States become an expansionist superpower, declaring war on and excommunicating everyone they don't like. No idea why, but it sometimes happens. Corinth seems like an odd choice though. Did they control anything in Italy other than Rome?

The Vortex Empire wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:I sent an assassin to kill the Pope, but I couldn't find him anywhere in Italy. I turned off fog of war, and he's in fucking Greece, leading an army besieging Corinth. WTF?

Yes, sometimes The Papal States become an expansionist superpower, declaring war on and excommunicating everyone they don't like. No idea why, but it sometimes happens. Corinth seems like an odd choice though. Did they control anything in Italy other than Rome?

Nope, Sicily, Milan and Venice control the rest of Italy. I doubt the Papal States will become a superpower soon in my game, the Byzantines wiped out the Pope and his army (which saved me the trouble of having to march my assassin there).

Also strange is that Venice has lost all of their island pocessions, but now has a good chunk of North Africa and has 2 armies fighting in Egypt.

I'll probably give up on my Spain game soon. It's not that I can't win, it's just that it would take forever. Spain is a late-game juggernaut thanks to its advanced units, but the Timurids have so many damned full-stack field armies that I can only eat into their territory bit by bit, fighting countless pitched battles along the way. There's really nothing to stop me from conquering the entire map because I am winning these battles, but it will take forever.

Maybe I'll try playing as the Turks next. That might be an interesting exercise.

Darth Wong wrote:I'll probably give up on my Spain game soon. It's not that I can't win, it's just that it would take forever. Spain is a late-game juggernaut thanks to its advanced units, but the Timurids have so many damned full-stack field armies that I can only eat into their territory bit by bit, fighting countless pitched battles along the way. There's really nothing to stop me from conquering the entire map because I am winning these battles, but it will take forever.

Maybe I'll try playing as the Turks next. That might be an interesting exercise.

Same kind of late game powerhourse though, really. And you'll be on the front-line against the Timurids and the Mongols (maybe) from the moment they appear.

The Greeks are (to a massively ahistorical extent) pretty damn weak at the start though, so you shouldn't have much trouble on that front, though in my England game they managed to crush the Turks, surprisingly.

Vympel wrote:Same kind of late game powerhourse though, really.

I kind of like being a late-game juggernaut. At that point it's all cleanup anyway, and I like to be rewarded for a long and successful campaign by getting some kick-ass units.

And you'll be on the front-line against the Timurids and the Mongols (maybe) from the moment they appear.

Hence the challenge. I'm frantically trying to fortify a front-line against their expected advance, whenever it comes. I took Baghdad almost immediately by sending a general and two units of turkoman horse archers, and then slaughtering its garrison when it sallied out against me. Now I'm rapidly trying to fortify it because I know it will be one of the Mongols' first targets when they arrive.

The Greeks are (to a massively ahistorical extent) pretty damn weak at the start though, so you shouldn't have much trouble on that front, though in my England game they managed to crush the Turks, surprisingly.

Yeah, I've already taken one fortress from the Greeks. They shouldn't be too much trouble. The Egyptians to the south have already declared war on me and the territories to the north are so far-flung that any campaign there will be mostly marching. I'll wait a bit before I start that one. Besides, I'm curious what it will be like when those Mongols show up and I'm pretty much the first stop on their Middle Eastern grand tour.

Darth Wong wrote:

And you'll be on the front-line against the Timurids and the Mongols (maybe) from the moment they appear.

Hence the challenge. I'm frantically trying to fortify a front-line against their expected advance, whenever it comes. I took Baghdad almost immediately by sending a general and two units of turkoman horse archers, and then slaughtering its garrison when it sallied out against me. Now I'm rapidly trying to fortify it because I know it will be one of the Mongols' first targets when they arrive.

Not necessarily. In my Russia game, the Mongols immediately sent there entire force to Smolensk for some reason. Obviously they captured it, since when they chose to assault it there were two full stack armies within range.

The Vortex Empire wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

And you'll be on the front-line against the Timurids and the Mongols (maybe) from the moment they appear.

Hence the challenge. I'm frantically trying to fortify a front-line against their expected advance, whenever it comes. I took Baghdad almost immediately by sending a general and two units of turkoman horse archers, and then slaughtering its garrison when it sallied out against me. Now I'm rapidly trying to fortify it because I know it will be one of the Mongols' first targets when they arrive.

Not necessarily. In my Russia game, the Mongols immediately sent there entire force to Smolensk for some reason. Obviously they captured it, since when they chose to assault it there were two full stack armies within range.

You are correct. The Mongols arrived and promptly swung north to attack Russia, rather than swinging south to attack my eastern provinces. They'll eventually come my way because they always conquer this whole area in my other campaigns, but I have some time. Meanwhile, the damned Christians declared a crusade against me, so I'm fending off crusader armies all over the place. I have to say that playing as the Turks is an interesting challenge, if only because you're directly in the path of the Crusades, the Mongols, and the Timurids.

Is where the Mongols attack decided by where they start? They start in either Russia or Anatolia/ Caucasus, randomly determined, IIRC.

Vympel wrote:Is where the Mongols attack decided by where they start? They start in either Russia or Anatolia/ Caucasus, randomly determined, IIRC.

They started north of the mountains this time, so I haven't even run into them at all yet. The Crusades against Antioch were not so easy to ignore, however.

Anti-Crusade tip: kill the general of a crusading army and the army will fall apart after the following turn. The old adage about cutting off the head of the snake is completely true against crusader armies. I've so far destroyed eight full-stack crusader armies attacking Antioch during two crusades. I destroyed one of them by assassinating the general, two of them by killing the general with cannon-fire in battle and then withdrawing, and the other five the old-fashioned way (I didn't have cannons for the first crusade). It was really close during the first crusade; I literally had less than 50 men left in my garrison after one particularly harrowing series of assaults on Antioch, but I held on. Now I've got gunpowder and it's time for the Turks to kick some Catholic ass, once I steamroll through the Byzantines. I've already taken Constantinople; those Orthodox bitches are mine

PS. The Timurids showed up right on top of Baghdad. But they stupidly moved past Baghdad to attack Mosul, which is a citadel. I've already destroyed two Timurid armies but there are a whole lot more coming. With any luck I can smash the entire Timurid offensive.

Does anyone know how the various cannon units compare in terms of range and reload times?

Darth Wong wrote: They started north of the mountains this time, so I haven't even run into them at all yet. The Crusades against Antioch were not so easy to ignore, however.

Anti-Crusade tip: kill the general of a crusading army and the army will fall apart after the following turn. The old adage about cutting off the head of the snake is completely true against crusader armies. I've so far destroyed eight full-stack crusader armies attacking Antioch during two crusades.

As I haven't (until tonight) played since April (so says my save game) - does the same hold true for Jihads? IIRC it does (as the Greeks I held off a fair few against Constantinople).

I destroyed one of them by assassinating the general, two of them by killing the general with cannon-fire in battle and then withdrawing, and the other five the old-fashioned way (I didn't have cannons for the first crusade). It was really close during the first crusade; I literally had less than 50 men left in my garrison after one particularly harrowing series of assaults on Antioch, but I held on. Now I've got gunpowder and it's time for the Turks to kick some Catholic ass, once I steamroll through the Byzantines. I've already taken Constantinople; those Orthodox bitches are mine

Boo. Hisssssss.

PS. The Timurids showed up right on top of Baghdad. But they stupidly moved past Baghdad to attack Mosul, which is a citadel. I've already destroyed two Timurid armies but there are a whole lot more coming. With any luck I can smash the entire Timurid offensive.

What time do the Timurids show up? The Byzantine game I left in April, it's 1350, and I'm in trouble, as the Black Death has hit and pushing end turn I'm on negative -7000 florins, losing ~4,000 soldiers (and 110,000 civilians) to the plague across my Empire (nealy the whole map excluding Romania, Poland, Russia and England except for London which I just took).

What should you do with your generals if they're in a plague city? Leave in there, or take them out before they've caught it and wait it out? Are they guranteed to die from plague?

Generic plagues you're best sitting still. If you move the army anywhere else, it's likely to spread. Haven't had the Black Plague though.

GuppyShark wrote:Generic plagues you're best sitting still. If you move the army anywhere else, it's likely to spread. Haven't had the Black Plague though.

Not always. Once, as England, Dublin was hit with the plague, and I then moved a new merchant out of the city and to that silver in the middle of Ireland. The plague stopped hitting Dublin, and the merchant died. At other times, that just risks spreading it, though, so you're probably better off staying put.