Attacking a criminal during a robbery

[Turin]

In the example Chithead brought up, it would not only increase the personal danger to the attacker but potentially get someone else killed. This is the point he refuses to address, which is why this is going round-and-round.

Isn't the fact that he's armed, however, an imminent threat? Presumably you mean he's not threatening to kill anyone, correct?

Correct. Chitoryu's original post where he thought cowering people was some damn funny was one of a gunman who was pretty clearly not intending to shoot someone. Chitoryu is making the argument that they should have gang-rushed this guy, because hey, who knows, he might not have the gun loaded.

Of course, what really chaps my ass about this is, because human beings aren't telepathic, Chitoryu would apparently count on everyone spontaneously realizing they needed to gang-rush the guy. Which means if I'm sitting on the floor of a convenience store being robbed, trying to be calm and doing my best not to escalate the situation, Chitoryu-the-teenage-moron is going to try to use his ninja skillz on the gunman and potentially get me and everyone else in the store shot.

I hate to dissapoint you, but my experience is completely relevant to someone who lives in Sweden and might be reading this thread. I didn't see a disclaimer stating this thread was about armed robbery in the US alone or I wouldn't have bothered posting at all.

Sure, but it doesn't remotely defend Chitoryu's idiotic assertion that you should attack a guy with a gun. If you weren't trying to defend it, fine, my apologies for jumping all over your shit. But frankly, the numbers you have provided are ludicrous anyways. Am I going to risk getting shot on a 40% (Canada) or 28% (UK) chance that the gun might not be real? Not if my life isn't already at stake.

Look, I'm not remotely saying that someone should always be totally passive in any situation where there's a threat of violence. Hell, I've even had to defend myself against an assault & robbery before. But there has to be a reasonable assessment of risk. Assuming that someone might not have loaded their gun is a fucking idiotic assessment of that risk.

[Julhelm]

@ Turin:

Yes, the number I stated might look ludicrous if you just compare it to the quoted 40% and 28% figures. However, keep in mind that those figures come from crimes where the police have managed to arrest the criminals and confiscate their weapons. There is a much larger number of crimes where the police does not catch the perps and to round this off a lot of street robberies never get reported (Especially when it involves younger people). So while I admit that 80-90% is probably a bit over the top, you would end up with significantly higher percentage compared to that quoted by law enforcement simply given how many of these crimes are commited by youngsters who do not have access to the same money or the same contacts as a hardcore criminal. An airsoft replica is much cheaper and does the scare job just as well as has already been stated.

For real firearms, Swedish police quotes around 700€ for a pistol and 2000€ for an assault rifle, and that's talking black market weapons.



I've never said that you should attack the guy - only that since the high chance of him carrying a replica rather than the real thing would be to your advantage should you choose to. Personally, I'm much more frightened by a mugger with a blade than one with a gun, though I suppose this is due to earlier experiences.

@ Stuart:

Obviously melee weaponry such as butterflies and baseball bats is far more prolific in these sorts of crimes. I was talking about ones involving firearms only, hence I can see how it might look strange.

As for how prolific in muggings, I haven't found any statistics, but for murders the police reports 44%.

This article states that in Copenhagen (Yes that's Denmark, but close to where I live and connected by bridge) out of 157 solved muggings, the perp was under 18 and of these, a whooping 79% were immigrants. The article states that Malmö on the other hand has over twice the number of muggings and this is interesting considering how Copenhagen is MUCH larger than Malmö. And as something like 25% of Malmö are immigrants that should provide a clue or two as to how the numbers probably look.