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One of my buddies got the first 80 rogue on his server. He has a brand newborn baby, and obviously he won't sleep through the night. So whenever his son started crying he got up, got him, and played.

Kid got taken care of
He got 80
His wife got a full night's sleep.

win-win-win

LordOskuro wrote:Yeah, well, that's always been an issue with our characters in RP servers. Some quests are extremely out of character (like the New Plague quests from the Forsaken if you happen to be a Tauren Druid, for example), but since there's no alignment mechanic, and no actual choice, I personally choose to ignore parts of it for the purpose of RP.

Although it angered me a bit with the first mage quest of the blood elves, where the quest giver is actually mocking you and you don't get the option to tell him to fuck off. Sigh.


I was wondering if you could play a DK without becoming allied with the Alliance/Horde, but I've been told all your skills are deactivated until you behave and follow the script.

Yeah, but I tend to cultivate non-stereotypical ideosyncrasies with my characters, so that's not something I complain about. The Paladin one is particularly hilarious, since the snarky comments, pyromania, and total lack of modesty (dancing at Brewfest wearing nothing but a pair of mail pants I got at level 30 called "Bloodsplattered Loincloth of the Whale", easily the best name I have ever seen for any item ever) would probably drive some people in RP servers up the wall, because that's obviously not how a Paladin, moreso a Draenei Paladin, is "supposed" to act. Occasionally the people in my guild do sometimes slip into RP mode, though. Like our rogue accusing me of being three blood elves inside an elaborate Draenei costume. Or one time when our shaman said she was surprised that someone like me ended up in the Exodar, and that I'd probably be more at home in the Arcatraz, and as a result the guild collectively decided that my character's backstory is that he managed to somehow bust out of Arcatraz and slip into the Exodar before it took off.

Minischoles wrote:

GuppyShark wrote:If anybody starts talking to you about Wrathgate?

TELL THEM TO SHUT UP AND DO NOT SPOIL ANYTHING.

The Wrathgate chain is the most awesome thing I have ever seen in this game.

Yep is really awesome, I finally completed the quest chain last night at about 6am in the morning (and hit level 73 incidentally) and it was epic from start to finish. About 6 huge quest chains just all linking into another huge epic quest chain. Truly one of the best quests they've ever implemented.

You know, when I saw those "Your definition of epic will be shattered" advertisements for Wrath on the internet, I thought it was an amusing tagline.

I didn't expect it to be accurate. Holy fuck. And let me spoilerize something I really want to say:
Spoiler

That questline is something I look forward to doing again on alts. It was honestly better then what they did for the Death Knights and more.

Now, I just want them to do dual builds. So I don't have to choose between Arms and Protect for raids. I like going in Arms as much as Protect...Fury less so.

Arms is beyond stupid beastly, and for anyone thinking Titan's Grip will EVER get to Arms level, you're high. They literally took the old Slam rotation and improved it beyond the Bloodthirst/Whirlwind. Add in Sudden Death that on a raid boss is hilarious how bad it can get, along with the insanity that bleeds can stack to? They basically screwed out Fury unless they radically change it.

Oh and Protect can outdps all but the highest end Fury. And survive on a level that only Protect Pallies are to achieve above. With Frenzied Regeneration, it's even funnier. Hell, as playing with Protect...I have nearly as many stuns as a Rogue. I shred elites like butter, let alone regular shit.

I have to state, the expansion has made me happy because they did actually improve some high end junk, but more importantly? Raids aren't fucking grinds wherein I have to farm food/herbs/stones just to eek out a DPS point. Naxx is a fucking awesome intro instance, and I don't care about the fuckers who are screaming that hardcore are numbered. We're not near the end, and to be honest...fuck off. You had raids wherein only 5-10% could ever see all of. Appealing to a small demographic of lootwhores is a piss poor model.

Ghost Rider wrote:Now, I just want them to do dual builds. So I don't have to choose between Arms and Protect for raids. I like going in Arms as much as Protect...Fury less so.

I've heard that dual specs are coming fairly soon.

Oh and Protect can outdps all but the highest end Fury.

Revenge was about 240 damage for my level 30 warrior when specced protection. I soloed the brutal armour quest without much difficulty which surprised me. Fury just doesn't seem that interesting for my lowbie warrior anymore.

Now I have to figure out whether I'd rather have an orc or tauren hunter.

Graeme Dice wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Oh and Protect can outdps all but the highest end Fury.

Revenge was about 240 damage for my level 30 warrior when specced protection. I soloed the brutal armour quest without much difficulty which surprised me. Fury just doesn't seem that interesting for my lowbie warrior anymore.

Now I have to figure out whether I'd rather have an orc or tauren hunter.

Now that's interesting because it's literally been years since I did a lowbie warrior, but it nice to hear even then it's not as bad. Early on, warriors were fucking pains to level because so few options and it took them so long to finally fix the hit problem.

One thing you'll love is that Shield Slam is a trained ability rather then the whole devote 31 points into a tree for the mainstay of tanking/DPS a protect warrior has. The protect tree mixed with a dash of whatever does actually work out very nicely. Fury has the problem that you need to have +hit and expertise. Protect likes them as well, but with Fury, all you have is DPS. Soloing Fury is painful given you are in beserk stance to get the best mileage only to feel like a rogue...without stuns and escapes.

As for Orc versus Tauren, I kinda always leaned to Orc, more because of the racial. And Taurens I tend to laugh at more. Course when I see a Tauren Death Knight all I think is zombie cow with a goth fetish. But then again a tauren hunter now has the disctinction of being the one who is making the dinner rather then being it.

And my guild beat 25 Naxx tonight. The hardcore screamed through content, and hell I was grabbed because I was level 79, about to ding 80. Was much easier, and fuck loads more fun. Did not feel like I was about to glass grind, and 10 man is supposed to be even better in the easy aspects. Going to see if we can get raids for the other two and then have fun just screwing around with the game. Sure we still have people bemoaning how the good ol days, then I asked "So back then...when we were pulling in more hours then some fuckers worked, who got laid or had a life beyond the game?". Besides the three to four wankers who chime, most shut the fuck up. Now to build a raid of 25 Death Knights .

Ghost Rider wrote:Now that's interesting because it's literally been years since I did a lowbie warrior, but it nice to hear even then it's not as bad. Early on, warriors were fucking pains to level because so few options and it took them so long to finally fix the hit problem.

I remember those days well, since I started this warrior back a month after launch and haven't played him in years. This was with the quest gear only, plus the Wingblade from the wailing caverns quests (~15 DPS), so it's not like he has a bunch of twink gear either.

Graeme Dice wrote:Now I have to figure out whether I'd rather have an orc or tauren hunter.

My opinion - don't roll a hunter at all. It's the most-played class in the game and in my experience (I have a 57) hunters tend to catch a lot of flak even from friends about playing such a whore class. Admittedly, it's a really fun class to play and nothing beats a Beastmaster for soloing, but you're always going to have a ridiculous amount of competition for instance spots and people giving you death glares when loot drops because at one time or another, they've all had a bad experience with a 'huntard'.

Ghost Rider wrote:I have to state, the expansion has made me happy because they did actually improve some high end junk, but more importantly? Raids aren't fucking grinds wherein I have to farm food/herbs/stones just to eek out a DPS point. Naxx is a fucking awesome intro instance, and I don't care about the fuckers who are screaming that hardcore are numbered. We're not near the end, and to be honest...fuck off. You had raids wherein only 5-10% could ever see all of. Appealing to a small demographic of lootwhores is a piss poor model.

PREACH IT, MY BROTHER, FUCKING PREACH IT

This is something I've gotten into time and again (I avoided the raiding argument in this thread for that very reason) I was pissed that I went all the way through Outlands, following up the long-ass storyline (all the way up from my first Ramparts run!) only to find out that I could never achieve closure to it because, just like in the classic days, I couldn't devote the amount of time required to raid and raid and raid just to get into Black Temple. Now with Wrath, I might actually be able to get in to see Arthas, maybe shake his hand.

And then kill him, of course.

Ghost Rider wrote:One thing you'll love is that Shield Slam is a trained ability rather then the whole devote 31 points into a tree for the mainstay of tanking/DPS a protect warrior has. The protect tree mixed with a dash of whatever does actually work out very nicely.

And they FINALLY aded a shield slam ability for paladins!

I still want to know what's the status of the Blood Knights of Silvermoon. I know that the Knights of the Silver Hand and Ebon Chalice have allied with each-other to oppose Arthas, but where are the Blood Knights in all of this? They're driven by their hatred of the Scourge and a need for vengeance, and are extreme in their pursuit of power even by Blood Elf standards (and diametrically opposed to the Farstriders).

You'd think that they'd leap at the chance of destroying Arthas and the Scourge. Admittedly, they were total bastards to the Knights of the Silver Hand (getting players to desecrate the Tomb of Uther with fel magic; extinguishing the eternal flame at Alonsius Chapel, then killing its guardians and burning it to the ground), but they didn't outright slaughter the rank & file.

Lancer wrote:I still want to know what's the status of the Blood Knights of Silvermoon. I know that the Knights of the Silver Hand and Ebon Chalice have allied with each-other to oppose Arthas, but where are the Blood Knights in all of this? They're driven by their hatred of the Scourge and a need for vengeance, and are extreme in their pursuit of power even by Blood Elf standards (and diametrically opposed to the Farstriders).

They've become a lot more "good" I expect. Lady Liadin certainly was affected by what happened in the Sunwell.

Incidentally if you're Horde and have the Argent Horn, it will summon a blood knight afflilated with the Argent Dawn.

Lancer wrote:I still want to know what's the status of the Blood Knights of Silvermoon. I know that the Knights of the Silver Hand and Ebon Chalice have allied with each-other to oppose Arthas, but where are the Blood Knights in all of this? They're driven by their hatred of the Scourge and a need for vengeance, and are extreme in their pursuit of power even by Blood Elf standards (and diametrically opposed to the Farstriders).

You'd think that they'd leap at the chance of destroying Arthas and the Scourge. Admittedly, they were total bastards to the Knights of the Silver Hand (getting players to desecrate the Tomb of Uther with fel magic; extinguishing the eternal flame at Alonsius Chapel, then killing its guardians and burning it to the ground), but they didn't outright slaughter the rank & file.

After Lady Liadrin's conversion experience in Shattrath, the Blood Knights have pretty much done a 180-degree-turn and are acting like genuine paladins now rather than Light-theives. They seem to have patched things up with some of their brethren and their are numerous blood elves serving in the allied forces in Northrend. The quests are still the same (kill a comrade, make a fel weapon, burn a church, etc) but Blizzard has pretty much out and out stated that they're not considered leftovers from an earlier period and no longer apply thematically. They just don't want to go through the hassle of re-doing them.

As an aside: The Death Knight factions has been named the Knights of the Ebon Blade (rather than chalice), and the Silver Hand and the Argent Dawn have amalgamated into the Argent Offensive.

Kuja wrote:As an aside: The Death Knight factions has been named the Knights of the Ebon Blade (rather than chalice), and the Silver Hand and the Argent Dawn have amalgamated into the Argent Offensive.

As an aside here, they are the Argent Crusade (rather than Offensive). And the Scarlet Crusade is now the Scarlet Onslaught.

Civil War Man wrote:

Kuja wrote:As an aside: The Death Knight factions has been named the Knights of the Ebon Blade (rather than chalice), and the Silver Hand and the Argent Dawn have amalgamated into the Argent Offensive.

As an aside here, they are the Argent Crusade (rather than Offensive). And the Scarlet Crusade is now the Scarlet Onslaught.

Me am tired.

Ghost Rider wrote:Arms is beyond stupid beastly, and for anyone thinking Titan's Grip will EVER get to Arms level, you're high. They literally took the old Slam rotation and improved it beyond the Bloodthirst/Whirlwind. Add in Sudden Death that on a raid boss is hilarious how bad it can get, along with the insanity that bleeds can stack to? They basically screwed out Fury unless they radically change it.

There was a quote by Ghostcrawler (to be taken with a pinch of salt natch), that they (Blizz) are genuinely concerned that with end game gear, Titan's Grip is going to be THE best 51 pointer talent in the game. I assume (never having played a Warrior beyond level 12) that you'll need to be hit capped to make Fury work. Although, I do admit, that dual wielding Arcanite Reaper ... HOOOOOO! through Outlands and beyond really, really appeals to me, hit be damned!

Crown wrote:There was a quote by Ghostcrawler (to be taken with a pinch of salt natch), that they (Blizz) are genuinely concerned that with end game gear, Titan's Grip is going to be THE best 51 pointer talent in the game. I assume (never having played a Warrior beyond level 12) that you'll need to be hit capped to make Fury work. Although, I do admit, that dual wielding Arcanite Reaper ... HOOOOOO! through Outlands and beyond really, really appeals to me, hit be damned!

His point was that you get a lot of oomph out of this one talent point - not that the end-result is overpowered. Similarly, they admitted that the procc-rate of Maelstrom (Melee-shaman, stacking buff that makes spellcasts faster/instant) was actually way to high in comparison to what they had originally planned - they still left it the same, as it makes the spec a lot more fun to play, and if they had weakened the talent, they would have to make up the damage lost somewehere else. Its a similar situation with Titan's Grip - yes, the one point is extremely powerful, but its hard to weaken it and make up the missing damage somwehere else.

Oh, and I just want to say: Melee-shaman are a LOT of fun since the introduction of Maelstrom. You finally get a proper hybrid feeling while playing. Throwing out instant-heals and dmg spells in instances rewards people who have an awareness of whats happening around them, and the fact that you never know how fast you build up your charges to an instant keeps you constantly on your toes. Its an absolute blast.

Now I'm back to healing (dinged 80), so I have to wait for 3.1 and dual-specs in order to do that more often.

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Arms is beyond stupid beastly, and for anyone thinking Titan's Grip will EVER get to Arms level, you're high. They literally took the old Slam rotation and improved it beyond the Bloodthirst/Whirlwind. Add in Sudden Death that on a raid boss is hilarious how bad it can get, along with the insanity that bleeds can stack to? They basically screwed out Fury unless they radically change it.

There was a quote by Ghostcrawler (to be taken with a pinch of salt natch), that they (Blizz) are genuinely concerned that with end game gear, Titan's Grip is going to be THE best 51 pointer talent in the game. I assume (never having played a Warrior beyond level 12) that you'll need to be hit capped to make Fury work. Although, I do admit, that dual wielding Arcanite Reaper ... HOOOOOO! through Outlands and beyond really, really appeals to me, hit be damned!

Here's the interesting part of the ongoing Fury versus Arms debate. And why on paper Titan's grip looks awesome, but reality is showing still that 2H arms as being king. Below is going to be a very very rough ongoing debate, because I really don't need to try and dig up some ten thousand page ongoing debate . Okay, maybe it's not that long but it is up there with raiders over the new dynamics.

Below is presuming hit capped(9%) and expertise capped. Yes, it changed but this is with current information.

Whirlwind/Bloodthirst(WW/BT) versus Motral Strike/Slam(MS/SL) rotation. Originally one could use the WW/BT with talents to just sync. With the in between the white strikes and judicious use of Heroic strike you only hit White damage for rage. What you wanted to achieve was 30-35% of total damage from white. The timing was quite forgiving if you missed a WW by a second.

With MS/SL? You wanted nearly the same but the the problem was that Slam timing was far more unforgiving. You could not miss the rotation or you suffered around 100 DPS loss on said boss, or higher depending on movement.

Now? That changed a lot because of many things. The rotation isn't as fierce because of one new talent, as well general mechinacs they changed in the Arms tree.

The plusses that Arms got:

1. Deep Wounds now rolls. If you were in the early raiding scene, you knew about mages wanting Ignite to roll. What that meant was that you did an ignite(Crit from a fire spell back then) and every single critical hit from a spell you did restarted the ignite counter BUT added more damage. Thus your first hit did 300 damage, the second time you got a crit your ignite would do 340 and so on. Not bad? Now think if you can roll that thing to tick for 1000s. It wasn't hard, but it broke bosses because mages could achieve unheard of damage. Now Deep Wounds does this. Who knows why, but Blizz has deemed that I can do 800-1000 damage ticks on bosses isn't bad.

2. Sudden Death. Sudden Death is a deep Arms skill that allows you on a hit to have 3/6/9(originally 10/20/30 on a crit) to light up the Execute button. Now rage dumps may sound dumb but in a true raid...you should not be rage starved. You should be nearly hit and expertise capped, especially with the new gear and gems and food. With a Fury talent AND a glyph you can easily do around 9-10K executes on bosses, every time you tap the beastie. Even if this means refreshing your rend(Which now can do unholy amounts of tick damage). This talent shifted nearly as much favor as the new Deep Wounds rolling. Some naysayers were wondering why would they dump rage, but then again they forget that all you are doing is storing it for slams, it's damn stupid. This led to a debate over Dual Weilding arms versus 2 Handing Arms. Still few results but it is that insane. This is because all Execute is a rage dump, instead of being based upon weapon damage, and that the off hand can light it up AND refresh your Deep Wounds.

Both of these overshadow by most accounts what benefits you get from Titan's Grip as well the problems with the new Fury talents. Fury Tree's problems?

1. Whirlwind had it's timer reverted to original state and all they gave was additional damage. Some have shown little change, while other graphs showed tremendous change. The reality is in the middle, but this change did not help Fury. This though enforces a losser rotation BUT the free time is accentuated that you either do white or hope your heroic strike doesn't cost the rage to fufill the rotation.

2. Fury can get Deep Wounds, but lacks Trauma and the speed of the weapons and needed extra hit does not help. Warriors to hit cap with Titan's Grip need to compensate for the 5%(Glad they lowered it because higher is reaching Rogue hit territory for no reason whatsoever). This means that less is devoted to other abilities and the additional damage doesn't compensate. This means a TG warrior NEEDS a higher hit cap, because when you figure that 60-65% comes from yellow hits, it makes it pretty glaring when staring at the two.

Add these small problems with the lack of higher Deep Wounds and Sudden Death, it showed to most pioneers that Titan's Grip will be on the backburner until the weapons catch up or some change in Blizz's thoughts. Fury got screwed because they changed some fundamentals as well as made those changes favor Arms versus Fury.

Now as for playing with it? It's fun as hell to run around with Apollyian and Cat's Edge like some Conan wank clone .

I must say, I enjoyed realizing that I'm leveling faster the closer I get to 80, not slower. Just got from 73 to 75 today, once I get cold weather flying this should be a breeze.

Oh and fuck you too, Zul'drak.

Kuja wrote:After Lady Liadrin's conversion experience in Shattrath, the Blood Knights have pretty much done a 180-degree-turn and are acting like genuine paladins now rather than Light-theives.

I used to be interested in the Blood Knights, back when they were still cruising around sucking the life out of some sort of angelic crystal thing. About the best thing to come out of turning the Blood Knights away from moustache twirling cruelty was the Naaru in Shattrath more or less stating that they (and basically as a result the Light) are completely amoral. Haha, suck on that, Church of the Holy Light.

Although, I do admit, that dual wielding Arcanite Reaper ... HOOOOOO! through Outlands and beyond really, really appeals to me, hit be damned!

I see no really compelling reason to use anything else, personally.

Ghost Rider wrote:Now to build a raid of 25 Death Knights .

I have no idea how it would work, but I actually have a few ideas as to how a group could run a raid of 25 Death Knights.

1. Get as many people in the raid as possible to have Glyph of Death's Embrace (minor glyph, increases amount Death Coil's healing part).
2. Main tank must have Lichborne. Off-tanks are recommended to have Lichborne.
3. At least one Death Knight per tree should have the Aura talents.
4. Any Death Knight with Rune Tap must have it fully talented (for shorter cooldown) and glyphed (to make it party healing). If you stack 4 in the main tank's party, then coordinate a rotation so the tank heals 10% every 7-8 seconds.

Obviously the ideas are to try to address the lack of healing. A Rune Tap rotation in the main tank's party would help overcome that, and if that's not enough, the tank Lichbornes and raid members with enough runic power can try to Death Coil the tank through the tougher parts.

Death Coil only heals friendly undead targets, that is your ghoul. Unless there's a glyph that changes it of course.

Crown wrote:Death Coil only heals friendly undead targets, that is your ghoul. Unless there's a glyph that changes it of course.

Lichborne is a talent spell that allows you to become undead for 15 seconds. I haven't tested it myself, but from what I've read, friendly Death Knights can heal you with Death Coil when you have Lichborne up (I'm unsure whether you can use it for self-healing. Some say yes, others no).

Of course, it doesn't help much for PvP, because apparently activating Lichborne also makes you vulnerable to things like Shackle Undead, Turn Evil, Exorcism, and Holy Wrath.

Herbalism with Lifeblood makes for a handy-self-heal, and even better if they're all Alchs and benefit from their own potions.

I've discovered Elixer Spec is the way to go to make money. I can drop 200-250 gold on mats, and make 500-700 gold in flasks to sell on the AH. Selling my services is even easier, because there's no cooldown and I can keep all the bonus flasks (or sell at a discount to my customer). Epic flight, here I come!

My money maker is mining, but right now, until the guild JC gets to max, my mats go there.

I'm rather sad that all the armor crafting professions look so weak right now. The only thing I, as a tailor, have to look forward to is being able to make all my own bags and cheap leg enchant which is no better than the BOE one.

Fingers crossed for 3.1 giving out some good BOP stuff.

I'm making an insane amount from gathering professions (as I did during TBC with each arena season). Aside from the small amount i stockpile from each grinding session (ready for when S5 comes and everyone goes nuts for this stuff). Artic Fur and Borean Leather are selling extremely well (150g and 40g respectively) with all manner of herbs selling very well for me. Along with questing, DEing and vendoring greens and blues as I level i've made about 6-7k gold since the expansion came out.

I've been running around the Geyser Fields making money hand-over-fist through a few methods:

1. Steam Cloud: My mote extractor works in Northrend and even better, those clouds drop 2-4 Crystallized Fire and 1 Crystallized water. The eternal fires are selling form 60g-80g
2. Scavenging: Engineers can now harvest constructs the same way herbalists could harvest Bog Lords in outland. I get mostly crap, but sometimes 1-4 Volatile Triggers which sell for 20g apiece. Hair triggers also sell for 5g apiece, and everyone always needs cobalt bolts.
3. Herbs: The herbs in the geyser fields sell for 4g apiece. NOT per stack, that's 4 GOLD APIECE AND 80 GOLD PER STACK!!!!!

I made about 600g today, in about 2 hours. Life is good.