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Also, in Solo Command, one of the Wraiths infiltrates Iron Fist, and has to try to shoot down the ersatz Falcon. Wedge suggests aiming for the wing pylons to disable her Interceptor. Plus, Turr Phenir's TIE Dedfender lost one of its wings and he still survived in Starfighters of Adumar. Granted, that was a TIE Defender, but still.

*Wings are for one, you can blow a monkey sided hole in the side of a wing and it will only affect atmosphereic flight

However it could be said that any fighter without shields any shot anywhere is pretty much critical

Fighters are designed with emtpy shoot here please sections buit in after all...

*Wings are for one, you can blow a monkey sided hole in the side of a wing and it will only affect atmosphereic flight

However it could be said that any fighter without shields any shot anywhere is pretty much critical

Fighters are designed with emtpy shoot here please sections buit in after all...

Captain_Cyran wrote:Mr Bean, I said non-critical, not non-fatal. I know that there are points you can hit a TIE and it won't be fatal but there are very few points on a TIE that if you hit will not disable/severly hinder the TIE with minimal shots.

Actually what you said was...

Fel is better then Wedge because of the fact that he CANNOT have been shot down AT ALL because with Interceptors there is not such thing as a non-critical hit

Several posts here have proven you wrong, plus if you really want to get into it. Wedge shot down the "Baron Fel" Impersonator in the Wraith squadron books. It is quite possible (despite your claims) To shoot down a TIE and still have the pilot survive. Plus you're neglecting the possibility of ejecting from a critically damaged fighter as well. This is also covered in the EU.

Luke might have "founded" Rogue Squadron, but it was actually a Reformed Red Squadron. Wedge always talks about Bigs and Porkins having been in Rogude Squadron, and how they flew missions BEFORE the first Death Star was destroyed. The squadron back then was called Red Squadron, and after ANH Luke took command and it was renamed Rogue Squadron.

Well, considering that "Red" Squadron was virtually wiped out at the battle of Yavin, I don't think it makes that big of a difference.

Mr Bean wrote:I have to point out that Luke had just had the beguesous kicked out of him and subsquently healed himself through the Force it seems and had a short term blast of Extra Force or somthing because he's never this good agian

For once he truely LET himself go and must have stumbled into that spot where Jediness is at its peak

If you notice he never manages to do anything similar agian

So that means he's only good if you nearly kill them heal him up quick and slap him in the cockpit right after?

Didn't seem to improve his acting very much after the car crash tho...

You guys seem to be confusing Rogue Squadron with Rouge Squadron and then turning it into Red Squadron.

Clarifications:

-Rouge is french for red
-Rogue is not the same as Rouge.
-There was no Rouge Squadron.
-There wasn't a Red Squadron either. There was a Red GROUP, which is a temporary battlefield designation (you can fly red, blue, gold, green, yellow, mauve, fucsia, mustard blue, rgb(15,9,133), whatever. depending on assignment)

I think that a group or wing can be 2-4 fighters, while a squadron can be much larger (like 12 or 20) and they don't ALL have to be dispatched in every single battle, and the pilots don't stay in the same GROUPS permanently.

Also I believe that two or more Squadrons could possibly fight in the same battle, and people from *different* squadrons put in the same group (ex: Gold) without actually transferring them to the other squadron.

Disclaimer: I haven't ever read a single bit of the EU, so if there's actually a Rouge (not Rogue) Squadron there, or Red was a Squadron and also a Group, then please feel free to correct me.

P.S.: Rogue might be another word for Scoundrel at least it is in D20.

I think it was Red group gets pulverized at Yavin, then Luke and someone else form Rogue Group, but she gets killed, Luke and Wedge rename it Rogue Squadron.

First off, in the ANH novelisation, when Devestator takes the Tantative IV, Biggs has come back from the Academy. He tells Luke that him and a partner are going to join the Rebellion. So there was no 'flying missions' prior to Yavin. Maybe one, but I seriously doubt that because Biggs had no clue where the hidden rebel fortress was. Second, Luke and Wedge formed Rogue Squadron between ANh And ESB. Red Group went down over the Death Star. Second, Han is almost the best, but then again in the asteroid field he did have more choices to go if he got into a pinch. Lando however, in the DS II run didn't.

I see many good arguments as to who is the best. However, when you get down to the argument between Han and Wedge, you have to admit that both are great in their own type of ship. Han flew a freighter while Wedge flew a starfighter.

But, you all have missed the BEST pilot of all. (and I am speaking from an EU point)

PASH CRACKEN.

Former Imperial pilot who defected to the Rebellion. He flys A-WINGS. An A-Wing has about as much shielding as a TIE (ok, a little more, but not by much. and YES, I know TIEs have no shields. it's a point I'm trying to make.). He invented the Cracken Twist, which helped greatly in the battle against Thrawn. When he joined Rogue Squadron, it was to get away from his former crew, most of whom had defected with him. They concidered him some kind of GOD because he'd survived for so long. Are there any other pilots who ahve been concidered GODs? Ok, besides Wedge. After all, he is the True Animist Warrior God.

So, if I have to go with the the pilots listed, I pick Wedge. From a starfighter standpoint, he is the best of the best of the best. I mean, look at the entire of Rogue Squadron. The fab four have been around since Rebellion days. What other sqadron can say that? All because of Wedge's leadership and piloting ability.

Kelly Antilles wrote:I see many good arguments as to who is the best. However, when you get down to the argument between Han and Wedge, you have to admit that both are great in their own type of ship. Han flew a freighter while Wedge flew a starfighter.

But, you all have missed the BEST pilot of all. (and I am speaking from an EU point)

PASH CRACKEN.

Former Imperial pilot who defected to the Rebellion. He flys A-WINGS. An A-Wing has about as much shielding as a TIE (ok, a little more, but not by much. and YES, I know TIEs have no shields. it's a point I'm trying to make.). He invented the Cracken Twist, which helped greatly in the battle against Thrawn. When he joined Rogue Squadron, it was to get away from his former crew, most of whom had defected with him. They concidered him some kind of GOD because he'd survived for so long. Are there any other pilots who ahve been concidered GODs? Ok, besides Wedge. After all, he is the True Animist Warrior God.

So, if I have to go with the the pilots listed, I pick Wedge. From a starfighter standpoint, he is the best of the best of the best. I mean, look at the entire of Rogue Squadron. The fab four have been around since Rebellion days. What other sqadron can say that? All because of Wedge's leadership and piloting ability.

Yep. In Rebel Stand Wedge is fiftysomething, flew a half-repaired X-Wing with no astromech and manages to take on a squadron of Vong coralskippers, shoot most of them down, and lives to tell about it. And coralskippers are tougher than TIE variants.

Pash may be good, but Wedge, Tycho, Wes, and Hobbie shot down 30 Adumari fighters by themselves. BTW, Welcome the SD.net, Kelly, and nice avatar *drool*

I remember that part too. Just got done re reading that book. They had blade fighters and took out 30. Then again in the raid on Carrtan they took down two Squints.

Oh, I forgot, they took on Defenders in that battle. Granted they were back in thier X-Wings at that point, but then again, Phennir, who was considered Wedge's equal ran away after losing one of three pylons. heh.

Darth Yoshi wrote:Pash may be good, but Wedge, Tycho, Wes, and Hobbie shot down 30 Adumari fighters by themselves. BTW, Welcome the SD.net, Kelly, and nice avatar *drool*

Ah, but the Adumarians were hand to hand fighters, not that good in starfighters. I'm not trying to dis the fab four, I'm just saying. And we really don't know just how good Pash is since not much has really been written about him. While I love Wedge and the rest, I find my obsession with Pash, an even more minor character, much stronger.

Thanks for such a warm welcome. This is so cool. And as for the avatar, she's from a video game RPG called War of Genesis (I'm guessing only in Japan so far) and drawn by Hyung Tae Kim.

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Oh, I forgot, they took on Defenders in that battle. Granted they were back in thier X-Wings at that point, but then again, Phennir, who was considered Wedge's equal ran away after losing one of three pylons. heh.

If you're exposed to hard vacuum, which for the most part, has near absolute zero temperatures, you'd head back to the mother ship too.

Kelly Antilles wrote:Ah, but the Adumarians were hand to hand fighters, not that good in starfighters. I'm not trying to dis the fab four, I'm just saying. And we really don't know just how good Pash is since not much has really been written about him. While I love Wedge and the rest, I find my obsession with Pash, an even more minor character, much stronger.

Yeah, that's the problem with judging Pash's skills. We don't see enough of him.

Darth Yoshi wrote:I think it was Red group gets pulverized at Yavin, then Luke and someone else form Rogue Group, but she gets killed, Luke and Wedge rename it Rogue Squadron.

Don't know about the origin of Rogue Squadron.
As I was saying, Red Group was a designation, formed during briefing. As in "you and you will go with me and form red group, you and you will provide escort as gold group, green group will consist of b-wings and will attack capital ships" then at next battle, the exact same guys could be formed in completely different groups, even if all survived.

Yes it may sound like I'm deducing this from the X-Wing games but it's only logical.

But I think one of the guys from Red Group is hit or something in his ship fails and he tells Luke, then heads to the surface (withdraws from battle) so I believe it wasn't pulverized (specially considering they were only like 4 to start with)

Ok, Red vs. Rogue Squadron.

Yavin: Red Group; all but Luke, Wedge and Wes were killed (Porkins had replaced Wes at the last moment because Wes had Tanaabian Flu)

Hoth: Rogue Group; Luke formed the Rogues with Wedge as his second shortly after Yavin. Wedge and Wes are partners and Hobbie is there as well.

Endor: Red Group; Led by Wedge at Luke's request. They chose the Red designation as paying homage to those who perished fighting the first Death Star.

Post-Endor: Rogue Squadron; Luke decides to concentrate on his Jedi training and finding out what he can about the Jedi so he leaves the Rogues in Wedge's more than capable hands. By now, Tycho has joined the Rogues after serving in an A-Wing at the Battle of Endor. Hence the fab four are created.

Wedge uses Red Group as an alternative call sign to throw the enemy off. For everyone knows who Rogue Squadron is. The Squad who can always pull off the impossible.


Ok, did I ramble too much or did I actually address the issue? Sorry, I get on a roll and tend not to shut up in time.

Kelly Antilles wrote:Ok, Red vs. Rogue Squadron.

Yavin: Red Group; all but Luke, Wedge and Wes were killed (Porkins had replaced Wes at the last moment because Wes had Tanaabian Flu)

Hoth: Rogue Group; Luke formed the Rogues with Wedge as his second shortly after Yavin. Wedge and Wes are partners and Hobbie is there as well.

Endor: Red Group; Led by Wedge at Luke's request. They chose the Red designation as paying homage to those who perished fighting the first Death Star.

Post-Endor: Rogue Squadron; Luke decides to concentrate on his Jedi training and finding out what he can about the Jedi so he leaves the Rogues in Wedge's more than capable hands. By now, Tycho has joined the Rogues after serving in an A-Wing at the Battle of Endor. Hence the fab four are created.

Wedge uses Red Group as an alternative call sign to throw the enemy off. For everyone knows who Rogue Squadron is. The Squad who can always pull off the impossible.


Ok, did I ramble too much or did I actually address the issue? Sorry, I get on a roll and tend not to shut up in time.

That about sums it up, however Wedge considers Red Group, that squadron Bigs and Porkins flew in, to be the same as Rogue Squadron. Basically Luke to the remnants of Red Group and formed Rogue Squadron, so Rogue Squadrons history lies with Red Group. Strictly speaking they might not be the same, but for all intents and purposes when Wedge talks about old squadron mates from Red Group, they are essiantly (sp) Rogue Pilots.

Kelly Antilles wrote:

Darth Yoshi wrote:Pash may be good, but Wedge, Tycho, Wes, and Hobbie shot down 30 Adumari fighters by themselves. BTW, Welcome the SD.net, Kelly, and nice avatar *drool*

Ah, but the Adumarians were hand to hand fighters, not that good in starfighters. I'm not trying to dis the fab four, I'm just saying. And we really don't know just how good Pash is since not much has really been written about him. While I love Wedge and the rest, I find my obsession with Pash, an even more minor character, much stronger.

Thanks for such a warm welcome. This is so cool. And as for the avatar, she's from a video game RPG called War of Genesis (I'm guessing only in Japan so far) and drawn by Hyung Tae Kim.

Incorrect. The Adumari's, especially the Cartann who they were up against revered starfighter pilots like christians look to Jesus. People like Cheriss who were not able to fly, or not as skilled at flying trained in the art of the blastsword. Everyone used these weapons but hand to hand, the fab four showed there they were superior with back alley manuvers the Adumar Cartanns were not used to encountering.

Darth Yoshi wrote:

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Oh, I forgot, they took on Defenders in that battle. Granted they were back in thier X-Wings at that point, but then again, Phennir, who was considered Wedge's equal ran away after losing one of three pylons. heh.

If you're exposed to hard vacuum, which for the most part, has near absolute zero temperatures, you'd head back to the mother ship too.

Nope. They were in the skies of Adumar at this event. When the pylon was shot free, Phennir gained control and headed straight for space. It never mentions his cockpit being exposed to atmosphere or any sort of breaches.

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Nope. They were in the skies of Adumar at this event. When the pylon was shot free, Phennir gained control and headed straight for space. It never mentions his cockpit being exposed to atmosphere or any sort of breaches.

Read it again. During the big battle, Phennir lost three TIE/I's then fled. That was in atmosphere. The other battle, with the two TIE Defenders, was in space.
pg. 285:

The Defender, in the distance, wasn't looping back toward him. In fact, it wasn't quite a TIE Defender, anymore. The top solar wing array was gone, its pylon destroyed where it met the hull, and the Defender was venting atmosphere into space

Bold for emphasis.[/b]