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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 02:22am
by Shroom Man 777
Steve wrote:Again, you don't have to attend the ceasefire talks. And given the situation embarking on a state visit tour in Messica is quite advisable.
FUCK IT! WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!!

Image

:lol:

[That's IT! I am going the FUCK to Messica RIGHT NOW! Fuck distractions and detours! CATO dudes, you better just teleconference me if something comes up! THESE BOOTS ARE MADE FOR WALKING!]
Coyote wrote:Remember, my inflammatory rhetoric posts were from media outlets-- one of which was openly a far-right wing nutcase tabloid that described how to make tinfoil hats.

The only time the King ever made any "official" pronouncements they were careful, neutral, and respectful. The media and "unnamed sources" stir shit for ratings. I'm role-playing an entire nation, remember, which includes paranoids and conspiracy theorists, and people just trying to spin a buck from stirring hyperbole.
Yeah. Prime Minister Shroom also does not publicly say that the leaders of Tian Xian or Canissia are either opium-addicts or are "pampered and
decadent, betraying even his own shallow, liberal affectations." or
"Possibly homosexual? Must remember to investigate further."

Those are all either in private conversations or in the PRIME MINISTER'S JOURNAL.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 02:27am
by Steve
Shroom, where did you intend for the FUN-administered "Green Zone" to be? I believe I posted a map of where I figured the remnant Astarian population is able to stay in relative safety.

This is especially because, c'mon, it's been five years since the Pathogen War. The "Infected" are long-dead, there's probably nothing left alive in Astaria outside the areas they managed to maintain habitability of.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 02:44am
by Shroom Man 777
The Green Zone probably encompasses all the inhabitable, hospitable places in Astaria where the huddled up populace can remain in safety. Basically the places where they managed to maintain the hability of - as you say.

The Green Zone encompasses the capital and... well, other places.

(Uh, can you show me the map? That would be cool.)

The zones that AREN'T Green are probably wracked with lawless, chaos, disease and chronic cholera and stuff.

Anyway, maybe the Mushroom Marines were joking about the still-alive Infected.

Or WHO KNOWS? Maybe amongst the renegade lawless populace of postapocalyptic barbarians OUTSIDE the Green Zone, there could still be periodic outbreaks of 'Infection'?

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 03:34am
by Steve
Um, it can't include the Capital. That's in the Red Zone, as was confirmed when SiegeTank did his post of dropping near-orbit weapons on it (specifically on the Bleak Castle structure).

Anyway, here:

Image

This was my proposal for the current habitable areas.

And there wouldn't be lawless outlaws in the interior, anyone who didn't get to safety and proved to have a curable strain of the bioplagues has certainly died by now, with Astaria's native biosphere utterly destroyed.

There are no Infected. PERIOD. No "rage zombies", no Mad Max-setting cabals, no barely-surviving villages. Even areas not initially hit by Shep's weapons would've been infected by the inevitable movement of people in attempting to flee.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 03:40am
by Ryan Thunder
Steve wrote:And there wouldn't be lawless outlaws in the interior, anyone who didn't get to safety and proved to have a curable strain of the bioplagues has certainly died by now, with Astaria's native biosphere utterly destroyed.

There are no Infected. PERIOD. No "rage zombies", no Mad Max-setting cabals, no barely-surviving villages. Even areas not initially hit by Shep's weapons would've been infected by the inevitable movement of people in attempting to flee.
So this disease is transmittable from humans to animals (and vice versa) and lethal to both?

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 04:19am
by K. A. Pital
Beowulf wrote:It's quite apparent that you paid no attention to the One Week War. You talk about Shepistani nukes, and how F-106Hs are just cannon fodder. Shepistan had no nukes (except the one that the tested, which fizzled). F-106Hs pack one of the most powerful fighter radars in the new world, and have datalink capability, so they can pass tracks to other aircraft. They are capable of reaching speeds equal to that of the MiG-31 (high M2+), and maintaining that speed. They are as capable of performing the mini-AWACS roles as a MiG-31. There's a reason why they were so deadly in the One Week War. They also aren't old frames. Assuming they were bought at the end of the production run from Shepistan, they would have been built in the mid-90s. They aren't going to fall out of the sky from airframe fatigue.
Shep was bullshiting a lot, and you're repeating it. I was rationalizing his behaviour ex-post facto. Apparently he didn't care. Well, let's clear some things then, give me a yes or no:
1) No PESA or AESA radars were fitted on the F-106 of any modification, or contemplated. The contemplated radars to be fit there were capable of tracking one target at a time. The reliable detection of 50-100m square RCS was projected at ~200 km, which means that a fighter would be detected somewhere around 100 km if everything is cool. At this time, the MiG would already have detected any approaching F-106s with it's PESA radar that picks up 15 m square targets from ~180 km, and prepare it's R-77 for launch.

2) MiG-31 has a PESA and can track multiple targets. Which is an extreme advantage especially as no dogfights are likely to occur, since nothing here can hold back the MiGs or tie them in close combat.

3) The maximum safe speed of the F-106 is Mach 2.5 and on trials it can reach Mach 2.8, while the MiG-31 can go up to Mach 3 (did so on trials), but recommended maximum safe cruise is Mach 2.8. The difference in speed is ~500 kph, or to put it into perspective, the MiG-31 is 20% faster even at it's safe maximum cruise. At Mach 3.0 it would be 30% faster, and we know it can reach this speed if it wants to break off from a pursuer.

4) The F-106 can carry twice less missiles than the MiG. In fact, it's number of hardpoints is severely limited.

5) The F-106s ceiling is 3000 m lower than that of the MiG-31.

If all of that is correct, I can't see how this craft is competitive without a huge number of ground radars and dense SAM environment. None are present, and the attackers are simply breaking through.
Beowulf wrote:Baerne did not and still does not have any mention of medium ADA vehicles in his OOB.
He did mention the medium ADA. But you're apparently too cool on Shep's horse ;)
Beowulf wrote:The planes sortied from 6 airfields.
Why Baerne has only two AFBs, but tiny Costa, a third world shithole, somehow has 6 capable runways? Breaking safety procedures would result in frame losses when lifting up 100+ craft in a rash - especially considering the "experience" of the Costa "aces".
Beowulf wrote:Hedgehog mortars are considered to be marginal against heavy torpedoes.
Really? By whom? By his Huand Di-ness? That's not enough. Explain to me how a heavyweight torpedo would evade a salvo from RBU-12000 Udav-1M. This is not a World War II system. It's estimated chances of hit against a single torpedo are 0,9 for non-evading (straight going) and 0,76 for an evading or advanced homing torpedo within one salvo. It utilizes two types of shells from an automatic 10-barrel mortar which also has fully automated fire control. If a torpedo is detected, the RBU will first set up several "floating barriers" of various types. Reactive decoys will try to lure the torpedo away by creating false sonar targets. Barrier mines will set up a floating minefield on the way of the torpedo. These are set up in a single salvo (2 decoys + 8 mines in the minefield). In case both these barrier attempts have failed, a third regime is switched on automatically and the barrels simply fire depth explosive shells against the torpedo to destroy it. The barrel caliber is 300 mm, and range is from 3000 m to 100 m from ship hull, depth of hit - up to 600 m. Reaction time from detection is 15 seconds, and launch tempo is 4 per second. Reloading is automatic. Ammo - 40 shells, meaning 4 salvos. Technically the system would clear it's shells even before either torpedo approaches enough to hit it, which increases the chances of a hit.

The correct behaviour would be first sending a torpedo to empty the RBU-12000 arsenal in attempts to destroy this torpedo, and then follow it up with a second torpedo. However, you didn't do so, and thus it's a single salvo, all targets will be noted and either destroyed or evaded.
Beowulf wrote:Timing is critical, and if it's wire guided at that point, then the controller can move it out of the path of the mortar bombs.
If it's wire guided, sure he can try (although how the hell would he know the bombs are launched?) - but the sub is deader than the dodo since it's very close to the battlegroup. You're saying the submarine crew willingly embarked on a suicide?
Beowulf wrote:Sure, mercenary Raptors could be used, but they'd take a while to get to Baerne. They're not in the picture for this first attack.
Sure.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 05:21am
by Shroom Man 777
Steve wrote:Um, it can't include the Capital. That's in the Red Zone, as was confirmed when SiegeTank did his post of dropping near-orbit weapons on it (specifically on the Bleak Castle structure).
I dropped orbital weapons on Bleak Castle. I flattened it.

(But Siege also blew up a lot of stuff.)

Okay, it won't include the capital then. :)
Anyway, here:

Image

This was my proposal for the current habitable areas.

And there wouldn't be lawless outlaws in the interior, anyone who didn't get to safety and proved to have a curable strain of the bioplagues has certainly died by now, with Astaria's native biosphere utterly destroyed.
I don't know. We could always use mutated animals.
There are no Infected. PERIOD. No "rage zombies", no Mad Max-setting cabals, no barely-surviving villages. Even areas not initially hit by Shep's weapons would've been infected by the inevitable movement of people in attempting to flee.
Arik and I are cool with rage zombies. I think Siege is too and his city had, in fact, been attacked by zombies or at least people infected with weaponized rabies.

Boo you! :P

Beowulf wrote:Sure, mercenary Raptors could be used, but they'd take a while to get to Baerne. They're not in the picture for this first attack.
Uh, I posted the bit about Mercenary Aces in Baerne before Baerne actually got to post his counter-attack.


You know, I really wonder how a third-world Costa government that barely maintains control of its own capital can launch such an effective attack AND defense against a nation that is bigger, a nation that is richer, that DOES maintain control of its territories, and with a better funded military and trained soldiers and airmen.

I also wonder how they can pull of everything RIGHT and how the Barnes pulled off everything WRONG.

It's like the Costans had the Right Brothers invent their planes. While the Baernes had the Wrong Brothers build their planes.

With the Right Brothers and frickin' Mangdalore, the Baernes have no hope!

If the Costas were so goddamn competent, then why the HELL is their country a Super Somalia Sucky Shithole State with unenforced borders and Stone Cold Sam Austin rebels anyway?

Image
Sam Austin
Fingolfin wrote:Not to mention, as I pointed out, are we expecting a shit hole to be remotely competent to pull of an attack plan like that? This is ridiculous. That a part of Costa's army so choose to revolt already suggest his army is in a bad shape.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 07:13am
by K. A. Pital
Oh, and the "deadliness" of F-106 in the "one week war" against the Raptors is either Shep's imagination games, or ground radars, preferrably hardened, which find the planes. Because without these radars, it would be a massacre.

The Raptors would slaughter the F-106s because the latter's radars would be simply unable to detect the Raptor at the entire engagement envelope, and will be completely unable to inflict any losses on the Raptors. Unless it's ground guided by powerful and hardened radars - in which case we're back to square one, Costa does not have any, hardened or not.

Comparing electronically scanned arrays with the obsolete shit radars capable of tracking one target at a time and detecting "bomber sized targets" (RCS >= 50 msq) is ridiculous, and did Shepistan have electronically scanned arrays at all? Because for all I know, shitholes don't automatically get ESA radars, and they cannot develop them on their own.

I'll look back to the "One Week War" to see if Shep engaged in dishonesty - but I think the solution is that he used mobile counterstealth ground radars to guide his F-106s towards the enemy. That is still hardly a panacea, but his planes really aren't the kind of contestant which could score atrocious kill to loss ratios vis-a-vis modern fighters.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 07:15am
by Lonestar
Stas Bush wrote:
I'll look back to the "One Week War" to see if Shep engaged in dishonesty - but I think the solution is that he used mobile counterstealth ground radars to guide his F-106s towards the enemy. That is still hardly a panacea, but his planes really aren't the kind of contestant which could score atrocious kill to loss ratios vis-a-vis modern fighters.
Marina, who was then-GM, ruled in Shep's favor when we(the Mess) disputed it. Canon fact now, shipmate. :D

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 07:43am
by Shroom Man 777
I have HORRIBLE NEWS people!

I'll have to be gone this Sunday, to some goddamn fringe world for NUERSING. I'll be off for a week!

So, yeah. Real-life is conspiring my Meet Messica Shroom Sojourn.

But no matter! I shall leave the matters at Siege's capable hands!

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 08:37am
by Czechmate
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Mercenary F-22s can provide air cover for Baernish ground forces, if that's the case.
Garmu Teamo?!?

Also, have fun nursing. I'm sure everything will still be here when you get back. Or, well, most everything. You know how this game is. :D

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 08:57am
by Shroom Man 777
Czechmate wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Mercenary F-22s can provide air cover for Baernish ground forces, if that's the case.
Garmu Teamo?!?
It was a cold and snowy day...

*Shroomish guitars*
Also, have fun nursing. I'm sure everything will still be here when you get back. Or, well, most everything. You know how this game is. :D
Yeah, yeah. Just try to be less obnoxious so that when the world ends when I'm not looking, no one will nuke you first. :P

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:01am
by Czechmate
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Yeah, yeah. Just try to be less obnoxious so that when the world ends when I'm not looking, no one will nuke you first. :P
Well, that was sweet. Anyway, I call dibs on the Belkan squadrons. I'm making a cross between Emmeria (british) and Belka (german). :D

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:07am
by Shroom Man 777
I get dibs on ISAF and Osea.

You can have the wankers who go on about dancing with the angels. :P

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:09am
by Czechmate
I am also using Yellow Squadron. Go Erusia!

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:18am
by Shroom Man 777
The Yellows and Erusians, as well as the Yuktobanians, are definitely Crimson. Man. :P

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:28am
by Czechmate
Well, Emmeria was founded by the exile Eastchester family.

That is to say, the losing side of the civil war in Tian Jiao that led to it becoming Westchester and then Tian Jiao again. I see no problem with them using Eastern equipment, since they're not fans of the ol Huang Di. ;)

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:40am
by Beowulf
Stas Bush wrote:Shep was bullshiting a lot, and you're repeating it. I was rationalizing his behaviour ex-post facto. Apparently he didn't care. Well, let's clear some things then, give me a yes or no:
1) No PESA or AESA radars were fitted on the F-106 of any modification, or contemplated. The contemplated radars to be fit there were capable of tracking one target at a time. The reliable detection of 50-100m square RCS was projected at ~200 km, which means that a fighter would be detected somewhere around 100 km if everything is cool. At this time, the MiG would already have detected any approaching F-106s with it's PESA radar that picks up 15 m square targets from ~180 km, and prepare it's R-77 for launch.
Neither type of xESA is necessary for TWS operation. The AWG-9 is capable of tracking 24 seperate targets at once. With the improved electronics available in the late 80's compared to the 60's, the tracking range for both the MiG-31 and F-106H are likely to roughly identical. Also, the F-106 probably has a much lower RCS than 15m, an average fighter is 3-5m2.
2) MiG-31 has a PESA and can track multiple targets. Which is an extreme advantage especially as no dogfights are likely to occur, since nothing here can hold back the MiGs or tie them in close combat.
PESA is not required for multiple target tracking.
3) The maximum safe speed of the F-106 is Mach 2.5 and on trials it can reach Mach 2.8, while the MiG-31 can go up to Mach 3 (did so on trials), but recommended maximum safe cruise is Mach 2.8. The difference in speed is ~500 kph, or to put it into perspective, the MiG-31 is 20% faster even at it's safe maximum cruise. At Mach 3.0 it would be 30% faster, and we know it can reach this speed if it wants to break off from a pursuer.
The F-106A has those limits. Improved engine technology would allow greater speeds to be achieved.
4) The F-106 can carry twice less missiles than the MiG. In fact, it's number of hardpoints is severely limited.
However, all of it's armament is internal, which greatly increases sustained speed (due to lower drag). Additionally, if you're carrrying more than 6-8 AAMs, you're probably got more than you can use.
5) The F-106s ceiling is 3000 m lower than that of the MiG-31.
See answer to 3.
If all of that is correct, I can't see how this craft is competitive without a huge number of ground radars and dense SAM environment. None are present, and the attackers are simply breaking through.
Beowulf wrote:Baerne did not and still does not have any mention of medium ADA vehicles in his OOB.
He did mention the medium ADA. But you're apparently too cool on Shep's horse ;)
He's got the S-400 explicitly stationed around Fortress Baerne, and that's it. As of right now in his fairly recently updated OOB in the thread.
Beowulf wrote:The planes sortied from 6 airfields.
Why Baerne has only two AFBs, but tiny Costa, a third world shithole, somehow has 6 capable runways? Breaking safety procedures would result in frame losses when lifting up 100+ craft in a rash - especially considering the "experience" of the Costa "aces".[/quote]

Because only having two AFBs is retarded? I have closer to 60 different airbases (precise number not available because I don't have my unit list with me at the moment).
Beowulf wrote:Hedgehog mortars are considered to be marginal against heavy torpedoes.
Really? By whom? By his Huand Di-ness? That's not enough. Explain to me how a heavyweight torpedo would evade a salvo from RBU-12000 Udav-1M. This is not a World War II system. It's estimated chances of hit against a single torpedo are 0,9 for non-evading (straight going) and 0,76 for an evading or advanced homing torpedo within one salvo. It utilizes two types of shells from an automatic 10-barrel mortar which also has fully automated fire control. If a torpedo is detected, the RBU will first set up several "floating barriers" of various types. Reactive decoys will try to lure the torpedo away by creating false sonar targets. Barrier mines will set up a floating minefield on the way of the torpedo. These are set up in a single salvo (2 decoys + 8 mines in the minefield). In case both these barrier attempts have failed, a third regime is switched on automatically and the barrels simply fire depth explosive shells against the torpedo to destroy it. The barrel caliber is 300 mm, and range is from 3000 m to 100 m from ship hull, depth of hit - up to 600 m. Reaction time from detection is 15 seconds, and launch tempo is 4 per second. Reloading is automatic. Ammo - 40 shells, meaning 4 salvos. Technically the system would clear it's shells even before either torpedo approaches enough to hit it, which increases the chances of a hit.

The correct behaviour would be first sending a torpedo to empty the RBU-12000 arsenal in attempts to destroy this torpedo, and then follow it up with a second torpedo. However, you didn't do so, and thus it's a single salvo, all targets will be noted and either destroyed or evaded.
By nearly every naval engineer on the planet. If it was effective, it'd see significantly more use. Firing multiple salvos isn't workable because by the time they could get them off, they'd likely be destroyed by the other escorts.
Beowulf wrote:Timing is critical, and if it's wire guided at that point, then the controller can move it out of the path of the mortar bombs.
If it's wire guided, sure he can try (although how the hell would he know the bombs are launched?) - but the sub is deader than the dodo since it's very close to the battlegroup. You're saying the submarine crew willingly embarked on a suicide?
I'm saying the captain was willing to risk the destruction of his ship in exchange for the probable sinking of the enemy aircraft carrier.
Beowulf wrote:Sure, mercenary Raptors could be used, but they'd take a while to get to Baerne. They're not in the picture for this first attack.
Sure.
Well, absent teleporters...

--

Anyway, hows this for casualties:
Carrier damaged
1 kirov damaged

30 MiG-31s destroyed
some number of B-1B destroyed
30 F-106H destroyed
3 Su-30MKI destroyed.
48 A-4SU destroyed.

Literal decimation of the 1st and 5th divisions (10%)

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 09:52am
by Shroom Man 777
Beowulf wrote:
Beowulf wrote:Sure, mercenary Raptors could be used, but they'd take a while to get to Baerne. They're not in the picture for this first attack.
Sure.
Well, absent teleporters...
They arrived before Baerne made his post. And his post has a throwaway line of Mercenary F-22s being used, somewhere.
30 MiG-31s destroyed
some number of B-1B destroyed
30 F-106H destroyed
3 Su-30MKI destroyed.
48 A-4SU destroyed.
Would the B-1Bs be touched if they just stuck with shooting off air-launched cruise missiles from the distance?

Still, man. The Costa is a third world Somalian type of craphole where the local government can't even definitely control anything outside of the capital, and where half of their military has rebelled. If anything, they're more like modern Afghanistan.

Pulling this off is the world's greatest miracle for them. Frickin Mangdalore.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 10:30am
by Raj Ahten
Given I'm not actually a military planner, I was wondering what exactly I should upgrade as part of Defense plan. Is my military lacking in anything major given the latest developments in game? At this point I intend to seriously upgrade my air defense network with more missile sites, hardened radars, lasers; the works. Also I intend to keep my Gripen's at least somewhat competitive with super cruise engine upgrades, new avionics and sensors. I'm keeping that a bit vague as aircraft are definitely my week point in military matters (I can't analyze different aircraft's radar fits for instance). I'm also investing majorly in naval mine warfare and submarines. Those missile subs are my main form of strategic deterrence though my small fleet of strategic bombers give me a couple other options.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 10:38am
by Fingolfin_Noldor
Raj Ahten wrote:Given I'm not actually a military planner, I was wondering what exactly I should upgrade as part of Defense plan. Is my military lacking in anything major given the latest developments in game? At this point I intend to seriously upgrade my air defense network with more missile sites, hardened radars, lasers; the works. Also I intend to keep my Gripen's at least somewhat competitive with super cruise engine upgrades, new avionics and sensors. I'm keeping that a bit vague as aircraft are definitely my week point in military matters (I can't analyze different aircraft's radar fits for instance). I'm also investing majorly in naval mine warfare and submarines. Those missile subs are my main form of strategic deterrence though my small fleet of strategic bombers give me a couple other options.
I would imagine that your immediate need is new IADS and new stealth fighters. CATO may be willing to dole out its latest.

And Byzantium holds the main dibs on the new 100KW solid state laser systems.:P

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 10:41am
by Ryan Thunder
Beowulf wrote:It's quite apparent that you paid no attention to the One Week War. You talk about Shepistani nukes, and how F-106Hs are just cannon fodder. Shepistan had no nukes (except the one that the tested, which fizzled). F-106Hs pack one of the most powerful fighter radars in the new world, and have datalink capability, so they can pass tracks to other aircraft. They are capable of reaching speeds equal to that of the MiG-31 (high M2+), and maintaining that speed. They are as capable of performing the mini-AWACS roles as a MiG-31. There's a reason why they were so deadly in the One Week War. They also aren't old frames. Assuming they were bought at the end of the production run from Shepistan, they would have been built in the mid-90s. They aren't going to fall out of the sky from airframe fatigue.
Pardon me, but are you seriously attempting to insinuate that this flying has been:
Image
Kills these:
Image
with any sort of reliability when they kill hundreds of lesser 4th-generation fighters that kill F-106s in droves without taking so much as a single casualty?

Are you laughing while you write this shit? :wtf:

You're still ignoring that I sort of blew half your shit out of the sky in a single volley of fire, statistically.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 10:49am
by Fingolfin_Noldor
On the subject of torpedo defence, seems that some fellas in the UK are selling these systems: http://www.ultra-scs.com/pdfs/pdf_seasentor.pdf

Apparently they are running for an active torpedo defence competition in the US as well.

Note also they mention this: "Some vessels already possess SRBOC or Sea Gnat launchers for torpedo counter-measure use."

I can only guess that the US didn't pay attention to this, because tehy assumed their submarines were good enough to detect and destroy Soviet Submarines. That is, until the 90s when they realised diesels were a threat and Russian subs have gotten pretty quiet.

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 11:12am
by Shroom Man 777
PeZook you fucker! I was gonna write it! ME! ME! MEEEE!!!!

(Don't worry, keep it! We can BOTH make ridiculous posts!)

Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

Posted: 2009-04-09 11:31am
by Ryan Thunder
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Apparently they are running for an active torpedo defence competition in the US as well.
Man. And here I always thought torpedo defenses were just another case of Supreme Commander being ridiculous. Else I'd have probably included something on my Stingrays...

Oh well...