What Follows ST XI? (spoilers)

[JME2]

Well, if this trek is anything to go by it will likely be an original plot or a rehash of one of the best plots of the series, with more from the "What were the things we like best in Trek?" callbacks and checks.

My concern is that the rebooted continuity could end up becoming like the Ultimate Marvel line, which started off interesting and divergent and then ended up being a dumping ground/reinterpretation of past story-lines.

[Worlds Spanner]

Of course, hell could freeze over and we could get a movie of "Holodeck Malfunctions and threatens the entire ship"

Will Data be smoking a pipe? I'd see it.

[rhoenix]

To return to the OP, I had a few ideas on this count following seeing the movie on Monday.

The "unification" of Vulcans and Romulans as a concept might no longer exist at all, given the two races' histories and Vulcans becoming an endangered species, or it might become a major plot device for the two, particularly after the political embarrassment Nero would be for the Romulans. Sure, some of them would be cheering him on as they followed his exploits, but by far and large, the "present" Romulan leadership's reaction would likely be a collective facepalm followed by anguished groans.

Vulcans might be invited to resettle on Romulans (at the cost of being completely Romulan citizens), and the result would be a slow change of the overall culture of Romulus. Another possibility is that the Elder Spock would be busy working on making a new permanent home for the Vulcans, and as his younger self pointed out, Vulcans and Romulans are very, very close genetically - perhaps enough to encourage a small Romulan exodus to assist with Vulcan breeding and settlement.

As a result of all of this, it would be possible for the Romulans to take center stage in the movies instead of the Klingons in the TOS movies of before, and have them work just as well, if not better.

[Havok]

My concern is that the rebooted continuity could end up becoming like the Ultimate Marvel line, which started off interesting and divergent and then ended up being a dumping ground/reinterpretation of past story-lines.

The good thing is, is that they are probably going to stay in the theaters for a while, so they only need to concentrate on 3-4 good stories over the next 9 years or so, given a new movie every 3 years.

As for the OP, I think you need to look at the state of the current STU to see where they might go.

- The Federation lost a charter world. What are the repercussions of that? Do they lose other worlds that now think that Star Fleet cannot protect them? Do they lose faith in Starfleet and the Federation's mission? They also lost a considerable chunk of their fleet.

- The Klingons lost a fleet of 47 ships. (We have no idea what the makeup of that fleet was however) For all intents and purposes of what we have seen in the TOS/TNG timeline, that is a massive fuckton of ships for anyone to lose and it considerably weakens the Klingon Empire. They know it was a Romulan ship that did it. Does this drive the Klingons to war as the destruction of Praxis almost did in TUD? Or does this drive them into an alliance with the Federation against a common enemy in the Romulans?

- The Romulans were untouched by the events of Star Trek and come out the strongest of the 3, assuming they all started on equal footing. Did Nero possibly give them access to his TNG era tech in the 25 years we was waiting for Spock? Do the Vulcans seek out their cousins? Would the very closed off Romulans even accept them at this point in history? Would the Romulans, all of a sudden with a tactical advantage, strike out at the Klingons? The Federation?

There are lots of little issues like this floating around now. My only concern is that they keep it on a grand scale and not do what the TNG movies did where they basically make TV episodes on the big screen.

[Prannon]

Given what Havoc has said, if the Federation member worlds became worried about Star Fleet's ability to protect them, then more than likely we'd see a vast increase in Star Fleet's capabilities, or at least more of an effort by Star Fleet to show everyone that "Hey! We're here! We're doing our job! *thumbs up*" More ships, more recruits, more patrols, more everything. Probably even a greater degree of centralization than was implied in the movie.

The film gave me the impression that every ship was valuable. To lose seven ships is a disaster. Just look at the shock on everyone's face to see the entire Vulcan Relief Fleet wiped out (granted, they were frantically trying to avoid getting smashed by the debris). To lose 47 ships? I think it can be safely said that the Klingons are not a major threat for the short to medium term, even if Vulcan was lost.

Naturally, Romulus would at least be more assertive when it senses that both of its major rivals have been badly crippled. I'd have no problem seeing more of the Romulans since the Klingons have had a disproportionate amount of screen time relatively speaking. It would also reinforce this continuity's differences if we saw more Romulans than Klingons. I really see nothing to lose by focusing on them.

[Stofsk]

Whatever the writers decide to do for any possible sequel, I don't think it would hurt to show the exploration side of Starfleet.

Whatever they do decide to do, it has to be suitably epic in scale, and involve antagonists (I actually wouldn't mind seeing their take on the Klingons).

[Worlds Spanner]

OK, so a hackish attempt to draw some of these thoughts together:

Facing a newly aggressive Romulus, the Enterprise is ordered out to the galactic frontier to make first contact with an eye towards immediately expanding the Federation's resources and military might. While out there they find a few sectors that have a very compact but complex political situation, and try to organize and coordinate a friendly coalition of smaller powers to fight one larger aggressive power in that region, with an eye towards a total victory making the region friendly to the Federation. Learning that behind the scenes the larger power is receiving military aid and anti-Federation propaganda from the Romulans, the crew must engage in some absurd and awesome Star Trekish wandering around gathering evidence, launching poorly thought-out away missions to collect it, and so forth. Ultimately, of course, they simultaneously manage a diplomatic coup by exposing the Romulans and a military victory by organizing and leading the smaller powers that they've just met.

If done well, I could see that having enough plot twists to be interesting, while also having enough exploration / diplomacy / philosophizing about values to be Star Trek and not a war movie.

[Oskuro]

Funny, the Holodeck wasn't even mentioned. Where they even present back in the TOS era? 'Cause both instances of the Kobayashi Maru test are done in a more traditional simulator, rather than a magic holo-bridge.

I'd say that this first movie was about establishing the characters, so it follows that the next movie be about establishing the setting, that is, getting to learn about the relationship between the Federation and its neighbours (Klingons and Romulans, for starters). Some political intrigue and conspiracies wouldn't be a bad option.

[Havok]

No. The holodeck was engineered sometime before TNG, but it was not present in TOS.

Heh, no that you mention it... I sure wouldn't mind some fisticuffs with both the Klingons and Romulans.

I just hope they don't fall into the same trap the TNG era shows did, with the Race=Personality Trait i.e. Klingons = Aggressive, Ferengi = Greedy etc. In fact, it would be nice to see some integrated crews on the Romulan and Klingon ships that represent the other races in their respective empires.

[Stark]

That said, Starfleet is still OVERWHELMINGLY human. In the Spock childhood sequence, I hoped we were going to see that Vulcan has it's own Starfleet induction system (with perhaps different standards etc), but after he is a grown man and ludicrously well trained he simply joined SFA like everyone else, which suggests everyone does indeed pass through the one academy and there were less than a dozen aliens in Kirk's year.

[Prannon]

That said, Starfleet is still OVERWHELMINGLY human. In the Spock childhood sequence, I hoped we were going to see that Vulcan has it's own Starfleet induction system (with perhaps different standards etc), but after he is a grown man and ludicrously well trained he simply joined SFA like everyone else, which suggests everyone does indeed pass through the one academy and there were less than a dozen aliens in Kirk's year.

A couple things should be noted though. First, we did see some aliens. Not many, but some, and they tended to look a little more on the alien side rather than being bumpy headed humans. That's not to say that Starfleet isn't as inclusive as it should be, but it does say that the writers didn't totally forget the diversity of the Federation.

Second, Pike did say that Starfleet is more of a humanitarian, peace keeping organization. Assuming that the president and the Federation Council still make their home at San Francisco on Earth, and assuming that the primary military apparatus is there too, that would put humans in an advantageous position regarding proximity to the Academy. Not to mention that the various other worlds likely preserve a great amount of their own autonomy (ie security forces).

Perhaps in coming movies, if the Federation is forced to centralize a little more after the events of STXI, we will see a greater influence from other races. That is, if the fx and makeup department don't eat up the budget in costs.

[tim31]

That said, Starfleet is still OVERWHELMINGLY human.

I was writing a Trek fic for someone a little while ago, set in the Dominion War, when I realized that the named crew members of the two ships I was focusing on were homogenous, which rankled me that I'd let slip. Makes me wonder what the JJ and company thought was an acceptable number of token aliens. I'm going to see it again in two hours and will be on the lookout this time for species representation of member worlds(watching for Rigellian, Andorian, and Tellarite)

[Gandalf]

I was thinking about the Starfleet demographic while I was at my third screening.

Theoretically, it could be because there's not much of an "Earth Fleet" relative to other Federation member worlds' fleets. Vulcan, Andor and such may have a need for their own defence fleet, but since Earth is in the middle they wouldn't need much. This means that they would of course be able to send more people to Starfleet.

Then again, maybe many within the Federation sees Starfleet as a human puppet organisation.

[Stark]

A couple things should be noted though. First, we did see some aliens. Not many, but some, and they tended to look a little more on the alien side rather than being bumpy headed humans.

That's why I said 'less than a dozen' and not 'none'.

That's not to say that Starfleet isn't as inclusive as it should be, but it does say that the writers didn't totally forget the diversity of the Federation.

That's irrelevant because I'm talking about Starfleet, not the Federation.

Second, Pike did say that Starfleet is more of a humanitarian, peace keeping organization. Assuming that the president and the Federation Council still make their home at San Francisco on Earth, and assuming that the primary military apparatus is there too, that would put humans in an advantageous position regarding proximity to the Academy.

Which is why you'd expect other members to have their own Starfleet induction systems (even if just 'equivalent accreditation' and such). If there were thousands of Ixians or whatever trying to join, surely they'd get transport assistance or their own campus?

Not to mention that the various other worlds likely preserve a great amount of their own autonomy (ie security forces).

You mean the no security forces anyone had in the movie? Vulcan would have been saved by a shuttle with hand rifles on it. Whoops, didn't have one.

Perhaps in coming movies, if the Federation is forced to centralize a little more after the events of STXI, we will see a greater influence from other races. That is, if the fx and makeup department don't eat up the budget in costs.

Why would it centralise more when they only lost Vulcan (which seems to have no SF induction facilities unless Spock finished his course at SFA-Vulcan and transferred to Earth for emotional reasons) and Nero basically shot SFA with a giant spacegun? Surely that would encourage DIVERSIFICATION?

[Prannon]

Second, Pike did say that Starfleet is more of a humanitarian, peace keeping organization. Assuming that the president and the Federation Council still make their home at San Francisco on Earth, and assuming that the primary military apparatus is there too, that would put humans in an advantageous position regarding proximity to the Academy.

Which is why you'd expect other members to have their own Starfleet induction systems (even if just 'equivalent accreditation' and such). If there were thousands of Ixians or whatever trying to join, surely they'd get transport assistance or their own campus?

Ah, I see what you're saying here. Yeah, it would make more sense if separate induction centers did exist so as to access greater personnel-power. A lack of them might mean that Starfleet has parallel branches or coordination agreements with defensive forces from other planets, or that they're just not concerned with racial diversification. Or they're racist.

Not to mention that the various other worlds likely preserve a great amount of their own autonomy (ie security forces).

You mean the no security forces anyone had in the movie? Vulcan would have been saved by a shuttle with hand rifles on it. Whoops, didn't have one.

I'm suddenly reminded of Star Wars Ep IV, with everyone saying that the Death Star was optimized for fighting off capital ships, not snub-fighters. Anywho, for all we know Vulcan did have defenses of some sort. I read in another thread that some of that debris that the Enterprise flew through might have been Vulcan's defensive systems. It's one idea, although it can't be proven or disproven so I can't rest any argument on that. The fact that Starfleet had to send ships at all for something as minor seeming as "seismic activity" (the original distress call cited seismic activity, not a world destroying death ship) would support your position more.

Perhaps in coming movies, if the Federation is forced to centralize a little more after the events of STXI, we will see a greater influence from other races. That is, if the fx and makeup department don't eat up the budget in costs.

Why would it centralise more when they only lost Vulcan (which seems to have no SF induction facilities unless Spock finished his course at SFA-Vulcan and transferred to Earth for emotional reasons) and Nero basically shot SFA with a giant spacegun? Surely that would encourage DIVERSIFICATION?

I don't recall any specific lines, but did Spock say that he was going to Earth to join Star Fleet? The movie would have us assume so since it doesn't reference any other induction facilities like you said, but for all we know he did complete a course at an SFA-Vulcan. Of course, we'd probably see more Vulcans manning starships if that were really true.

The whole centralization idea I was throwing around was a reference to a comment by Havoc earlier:

- The Federation lost a charter world. What are the repercussions of that? Do they lose other worlds that now think that Star Fleet cannot protect them? Do they lose faith in Starfleet and the Federation's mission? They also lost a considerable chunk of their fleet.

Vulcan was pretty high up there on the ladder. They were the first race to make contact with humans, and they had relatively good relations with Earth long before the Federation was created. And now all of a sudden it was destroyed despite the fact that Star Fleet sent (for the time period) a formidable fleet to help protect it? Either two things are gonna happen. Everyone is gonna say "Fuck you! We'll defend ourselves, thank you very much!" or they're gonna anxiously nudge Star Fleet and say "Hey, ramp it up and protect us..."

The diversification angle came from the silly idea that maybe more members of other races would make it into Star Fleet if they needed more resources to increase their strength. More likely it would just be the Earth based government increasing its power relative the member worlds.

Also, I wouldn't say that the Federation only lost Vulcan. They would seem to be second only to Earth in importance given their past portrayal. Not to mention that's a lot of people on a core world, with industries, academies, potential resources, diplomatic clout, and status. It's easy to replace a bunch of ships lost in battle, but not a fully populated, established, and productive world.