Prequel to 'Alien' confirmed

[Terralthra]

So, your answer to "why is 'xenomorph' the preferred fanon name for the aliens now?" is "because that's what everyone calls them"? Ever heard of circular reasoning?

Ever heard of language, shitbird? It runs on that principle.

As a matter of fact, I have a degree in it. And anyone who has even learned the meaning of the phrase "diachronic linguistics" would know that answering "Why has x become the popular term for y?" with "Because everyone calls y x," is simply restating the basic premise of the question, not providing an explanation.

"Xeno" is a fine name for them, since it means alien, but it's distinguished from the casually used word and is easily understood to refer to the aliens from that particular franchise.

Which makes very little sense, given that even in that franchise, in-universe, as stated above, it doesn't even refer to those specific aliens. So, the answer to "why?" is more like "toy manufacturers influenced Alien-fanboys to get a collective boner and ignore the context of the word's one use."

[Oskuro]

As a matter of fact, I have a degree in it. And anyone who has even learned the meaning of the phrase "diachronic linguistics" would know that answering "Why has x become the popular term for y?" with "Because everyone calls y x," is simply restating the basic premise of the question, not providing an explanation.

I don't have a degree in linguistics, but I can understand that sometimes terms to define something are used because they are popular. For example, I dislike that the United States of America are routinely referred to as America, yet there you have it.

Also "because everyone does it" is the definition of being popular, so in this context it is a valid answer. Maybe you should rephrase your question as "why did everyone start calling them Xenos?" to wich the answer is "Because someone in Aliens called them that".

Since the other stages of the creature are called Facehugger and Chestburster, maybe we should name the adult stage as BrainPiercers? DeepTounguers? DroolDispensers? PhallicShowrooms? ManInRubberSuit? ThingsThatShouldNotBeNameLestSomeObnoxiousFansArgueEndlesslyAboutIt?

[Terralthra]

Also "because everyone does it" is the definition of being popular, so in this context it is a valid answer. Maybe you should rephrase your question as "why did everyone start calling them Xenos?" to wich the answer is "Because someone in Aliens called them that".

No, for the fourth or fifth time, it is not a valid answer to the question. Use simple substitution on 'popular' and 'because everyone does it':

"Why is x the popular term for y?"
"Because x is the popular term for y!"

You haven't answered the question at all. As I said in my previous post, you have restated a premise of the question. Yes, obviously x is a popular term for y. Asking why x became a popular term for y is predicated on x being a popular term for y. That doesn't answer why.

And yes, one character in Aliens calls them "a xenomorph." What causes the question (and the irritation at facile non-answers to it) to come up is that it is a generic term, not specifically referring to the creatures in question. Other characters call the creatures in question "those things," "a lifeform," and "hostile organism," but no one reifies those generic, abstract terms; only "xenomorph" is taken that way. Why that one? Possible answers include "because Kenner used it on their toy packaging," but that's not overly convincing. I lean towards "because it's Latin, which sounds really erudite, and scifi fans love sounding as if they are erudite," personally.

[Galvatron]

New rule: anyone who refers to Giger's Alien as "the xenomorph" will henceforth be labeled a "Gorman" by me.

[Oskuro]

No, for the fourth or fifth time, it is not a valid answer to the question. Use simple substitution on 'popular' and 'because everyone does it' <snip>

Firstly, language is not math. Popular usage, for good or worse, does count. Secondly, the original question I read was "Why is it popular" not "Why did it become popular". I agree that it's a bit of circular logic, but popularity often thrives on circular logic, that is, on appeals to popularity. Something can be popular because it was popular to begin with (yeah, unnerving).

I lean towards "because it's Latin, which sounds really erudite, and scifi fans love sounding as if they are erudite," personally.

Please, don't be naive. The reason 'Xenomorph' stuck was because it was a cool-sounding word that most moviegoers had no idea about its meaning. It could have been a made up word and it would have stuck too.

[Shroom Man 777]

Jesus Christ it's just a goddamn name that sounds cool because it's got an "x" in its name. Yes it is pretentious because sci-fi geeks want to sound erudite so they use the latin-y sounding name but now it's no longer erudite because everyone and his dog uses it, so to be more pretentious than those shmucks I shall call those erudite sci-fi geeks who use the word "xenomorph" pretentious and erudite and I shall be all clever instead and call the Alien from Alien and Aliens and Aliens 3 and Aliens Resurrection and Aliens versus Predator Alien.

It's okay Galvatron, you can be Vasquez.

EDIT:

It's like Frank Miller getting pissed at everyone writing GRIMDRAK so when he got back to Batman, he ended up writing a whore-obsessed Batman with lots of obligatory ass-shots, who continuously refers to himself as "the Goddamn Batman" and goes on about how his mothers breasts bled on him. It's a parody of all the grimdark out there, but it kind of boomerangs back on itself and now Frank Miller's a big fat joke.

EDIT 2:

To be cooler and (frank) hipper than all of you, I shall call the alien/xenomorph the Gigerianoid - complete with the italics. It's an original name that, in a postmodern twist, references an Alien ripoff titled Inseminoid.

Mang I am so goddamn clever.

[Themightytom]

Jesus Christ it's just a goddamn name that sounds cool because it's got an "x" in its name. Yes it is pretentious because sci-fi geeks want to sound erudite so they use the latin-y sounding name but now it's no longer erudite because everyone and his dog uses it, so to be more pretentious than those shmucks I shall call those erudite sci-fi geeks who use the word "xenomorph" pretentious and erudite and I shall be all clever instead and call the Alien from Alien and Aliens and Aliens 3 and Aliens Resurrection and Aliens versus Predator Alien.

It's okay Galvatron, you can be Vasquez.

EDIT:

It's like Frank Miller getting pissed at everyone writing GRIMDRAK so when he got back to Batman, he ended up writing a whore-obsessed Batman with lots of obligatory ass-shots, who continuously refers to himself as "the Goddamn Batman" and goes on about how his mothers breasts bled on him. It's a parody of all the grimdark out there, but it kind of boomerangs back on itself and now Frank Miller's a big fat joke.

EDIT 2:

To be cooler and (frank) hipper than all of you, I shall call the alien/xenomorph the Gigerianoid - complete with the italics. It's an original name that, in a postmodern twist, references an Alien ripoff titled Inseminoid.

Mang I am so goddamn clever.

You know you'd be cooler if you were "Shroom Man X".

I will be Themightytom X when I finally get my SNES relaunch but I will probably revert to "Themightytom" in later titles.

[Rye]

As a matter of fact, I have a degree in it. And anyone who has even learned the meaning of the phrase "diachronic linguistics" would know that answering "Why has x become the popular term for y?" with "Because everyone calls y x," is simply restating the basic premise of the question, not providing an explanation.

I see, you are asking why it arose to prominence rather than why we should keep using it and why it's meaningful now.

Which makes very little sense, given that even in that franchise, in-universe, as stated above, it doesn't even refer to those specific aliens. So, the answer to "why?" is more like "toy manufacturers influenced Alien-fanboys to get a collective boner and ignore the context of the word's one use."

The word isn't used outside of that franchise and we've never seen any non-xeno aliens from those films, so it became associated with them. The predators were never named predators on-screen either. IIRC, Keyes just calls it a "fucking alien" or extraterrestrial or something.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

New rule: anyone who refers to Giger's Alien as "the xenomorph" will henceforth be labeled a "Gorman" by me.

Least you're having fun.

Terralthra's slowly turning into one of those fat nerds he besmirches by continuing the argument.

As for why no one refers to them by their pseudo-Scientific Name... How many actual animals are referred to by their Categorical name? Usually, I see something like

Animal
Animalis Latinus

at zoos and aquariums. Because, despite also being latin, it's a bloody mouthful.


In anycase, it's a fandom... Invariably, it's composed of the stupidest and freest of time nerds who ever liked the Setting.

[Themightytom]

New rule: anyone who refers to Giger's Alien as "the xenomorph" will henceforth be labeled a "Gorman" by me.

...What about Gorman X?

You know one of the creepy elements of the alien was "ITS NAMELESS! ITS A CREATURE THAT MOVES IN THE DARK AND IT HAS NO NAME!!"

Funny how in the light of day that phenomanon is just annoying and confusing.,.. and i can see in retrospect how coming up with a "kewl" name is almost as bad.

What about naming them with some reference to Geiger?

[Oskuro]

What about naming them with some reference to Geiger?

This is Geiger:


And this is Giger:



This is Geiger's work:


And this is Giger's:

[Galvatron]

What about naming them with some reference to Geiger?

There's a reason I referred to it as Giger's Alien before. And I disagree with all the Gormans in this thread who think that "xenomorph" even sounds cool.

[dworkin]

Alien (and Predator) and all the bastard children work because the aliens have no names. Space isn't full of cuddly aliens like ET or potential friends and allies like Chewbacca. Space is full of unanamable horrors. There is no communicating with them or trying to reach an understanding like in Star Trek. They exist purely to fuck your shit up. Venture into space at your peril.

With that in mind making a film about the origins of the aliens from 'Alien' should involve an expedition to a planet which is 'believed to be the homeworld of the aliens'. A tough crew of marines and scientists is sent to find out about stuff.

They don't.

In a reversal of every damn Star Trek, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica episode ever the cast do not find anything they can decipher or barely understand. The cast lands near the equivalent of a farm and starts investigating. There are casualties due to industrial accidents or pissing off the livestock.
Then the farmer wakes up and starts killing them with his gun, after they finally kill the farmer the police show up. The remaining cast makes a frenzied retreat to the drop ship.

Note. Words like farm, farmer, livestock, etc are only there so the film crew have a handle on what's going on. Nothing should look like anything and 'Farmer Brown' is not so distinguishable from his animals until he pulls the 'shotgun' down from the 'rack'.

If you must have an 'Alien' alien have one come sniffing around the LZ after the drop ship takes off. A cop promptly shoots it.

Second note: The civilisation is not space faring. Some other dumb bugger has picked up the aliens as well.

Unfortunatly that's just my drug induced fantasy. The real movie will give out answers like free samples and they will suck.

[Junghalli]

Or you could go with the original idea they were playing with for Alien, and have them find an ancient dead city on a dead planet full of incomprehensible carvings and gruesome Giger inscriptions of the aliens and a stash of facehugger eggs, but no real answers.

That would be kind of cool.

[Stark]

So you suggest they make a prequel about a side-issue in a movie that has no explanation, in order to provide no explanation?

[Oskuro]

Unfortunatly that's just my drug induced fantasy. The real movie will give out answers like free samples and they will suck.

Actually, your concept makes me think of the Lovecraft novels, full of unknowns and with hardly a resolution beyond "there's scary shit out there!"
That would probably be an excelent concept for an Alien movie, creating more questions in the viewer than answers. Although I'd rather go for the a civilization whose worship of the Aliens goes well beyond fetishism.

[dworkin]

So you suggest they make a prequel about a side-issue in a movie that has no explanation, in order to provide no explanation?

No, I suggested that if they make another movie, it be about a scientific/military team sent to find out about the creatures in 'Alien'. It can follow in continuity from the 4th movie. Despite the most carefully laid plans, it all goes wrong.

And yes, what they discover is that the creature, it's ecology and the society that lives there defies description, is lethally hostile and communication is impossable. That it's best left alone and humanity best advised to go explore the Milky Way in the opposite direction.

But that's my caffiene overdose induced fantasy. They will make a prequel, the explanations will be spoon fed and moronic and I will put it in the 'unmovie' bin along with the Highlander sequels.

[dworkin]

Actually, your concept makes me think of the Lovecraft novels, full of unknowns and with hardly a resolution beyond "there's scary shit out there!"
That would probably be an excelent concept for an Alien movie, creating more questions in the viewer than answers. Although I'd rather go for the a civilization whose worship of the Aliens goes well beyond fetishism.

That's the idea. These films' schtick is that the creatures are aliens (duh). They are unknowable, physically impossible, cannot be communicated with, tamed or safely contained.
There is no explanation and not even a proper name. That's what makes them scary.

Giving them an explanation suitable for the average viewing audience is retarded.

[PeZook]

How is a non space-faring civilization "scary" and "unknowable"? A dead city could be because it's, you know, dead. If there's a civilization there, it's not going to be "impossible to know" and make humans "go explore the galaxy in a different direction". It will make us come in starships and sterilize the planet from orbit to get rid of the damn pests once and for all.

[Oskuro]

The other night, while desperately trying to fall asleep (yes, there is such a thing), I came up with a sort of half-dreamed mental fanfic in wich a Weyland-Yutani vessel is sent to investigate what remains of the Derelict in between Aliens 2 and 3, and finding a way to trace its course back to some mysetrious planet of evil Gigerish structures, all sparkled with WY scientist explaining how the Aliens make no sense.

I finally fell asleep while the spacesuited team tried to find a way down an impossible deep shaft of DOOM.

Maybe I should fanficize it. The image I had of the planet was appealing, although it'd better fit visual media.

[PeZook]

Frankly, it's easy to predict how the main plot will look like:

"OMG they made the aliens and were DESTROYED BY THEIR OWN CREATIONS! We must be careful when playing God, or we could meet the same fate!"

Also, aliens eat our friends because we're retards.

[Oskuro]

Knowing me, it'd probably lead to some hyper-hedonistic S&M civilization (past the point of being utterly disgusting and inhuman), with the aliens being their favorite worship/sex toys or something, and the civilization kind of fucking itself to extinction. Like what will happen to us once we develop realistic virtual sex.

That means that, in that vision, the Aliens would be like if we created genetically engineered anime sex kittens. Woah, now that's disturbing.

[Jon]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111800 ... id=13&cs=1

Ridley Scott confirmed to direct.

[Duckie]

And yes, one character in Aliens calls them "a xenomorph." What causes the question (and the irritation at facile non-answers to it) to come up is that it is a generic term, not specifically referring to the creatures in question. Other characters call the creatures in question "those things," "a lifeform," and "hostile organism," but no one reifies those generic, abstract terms; only "xenomorph" is taken that way. Why that one? Possible answers include "because Kenner used it on their toy packaging," but that's not overly convincing. I lean towards "because it's Latin, which sounds really erudite, and scifi fans love sounding as if they are erudite," personally.

Xenomorph is greek, sir. The equivalent latin word would be Alienformus or Alienforma or whatnot. I shit you not.

[Skylon]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111800 ... id=13&cs=1

Ridley Scott confirmed to direct.

I'm not sure how to take that. At least we know it should look good.